Making a new texture, with Normal Map and Specular Map

[Anna Nova]

I am about to try my hand at my first bit of normal mapped texture making.

I'm making a model of this building.  I have started with the walls being meshed with the vertical strips, and this yields quite a high LI with good LODs.  So my plan is to make the wall texture with a strong normal map to simulate the strips.  In RL they are about 40mm proud of the wall surface.  The doors could use that too.

My usual texture-making tool is GIMP, since on Linux I can't run photoshop.  I can also use Blender.

Can some kind soul point me at tutorials etc.. on how to get started?

Edited January 18, 2018 by anna2358

[Ivanova Shostakovich]

   This tutorial for Blender does a pretty good job explaining how to do it.

https://www.katsbits.com/tutorials/blender/bake-normal-maps.php

[OptimoMaximo]

Anna, you should take a look at another issue when it comes to materials: they're not made of just normal map and specular map. There's more to that, in order to get cool looking materials instead of a sort of PVC model. The thing is quite long to explain here, but for starters, take a look at the docs here . What you might find easier to grasp is contained in the table called Texture Channel Encoding where you can clearly see the presence of glossiness and environment maps data. IM inworld if you would like to see examples and a cheatsheet.

[Ivanova Shostakovich]

   Anna here is another option.

[ChinRey]

Awww, that's beautiful. Ok, I give in then, some 'mericans do actually have taste!

 

Anyway

2 hours ago, anna2358 said:

Can some kind soul point me at tutorials etc.. on how to get started?

An even simpler way than what Ivanova and Optimo suggested: make a grayscale version of the texture and blur/erase all the tiny details you don't want on the normal map. Then run it through Normal Map Online:

http://cpetry.github.io/NormalMap-Online/

I've only made panel-and-batten sidings once myself and it's a while ago. But I think that is how I did it. At least I seem to have an awful lot of heigthmap drafts for those textures.

 

[Anna Nova]

7 hours ago, Ivanova Shostakovich said:

   This tutorial for Blender does a pretty good job explaining how to do it.

https://www.katsbits.com/tutorials/blender/bake-normal-maps.php

Just for completeness I found this too.  https://www.katsbits.com/tutorials/blender/cycles-bake-normal-maps.php

I usually use Cycles.

 

[Ivanova Shostakovich]

2 minutes ago, anna2358 said:

I usually use Cycles.

   I have yet to explore and learn Cycles.

[Anna Nova]

49 minutes ago, Ivanova Shostakovich said:

   I have yet to explore and learn Cycles.

When I started with blender, a couple of years ago, it seemed natural to use the latest thing.  And Chic's videos used it too, so I never used Blender Render.

I'm really grateful for all the hints.

[Chic Aeon]

Just wanted to pipe in that I tried (oh so many time when I was newer) to get those Blender normal maps to be made inside of Blender -- I failed. Might could do it now. While I actually seldom use normal maps or specular maps -- preferring to let Blender Cycles do its great job, I did quite awhile ago invest in ShaderMap 2 which is very slick and intuitive so you might want to look at that (not free but wasn't expensive when I bought it). There may even be something like that out there for free now if you look.

That being said ---- normal maps especially can have a really nasty look under some windlight settings so do a lot of testing before you take a big plunge.  

I usually use them on natural things like rocks. That's just my opinion. When materials first came out, most creators felt that they HAD to have them in order to sell things -- and that might have been true then. Now, especially with Cycles it doesn't seem to matter much.

Good luck and HAVE FUN with it. That's the important thing! 

 

[ChinRey]

6 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

That being said ---- normal maps especially can have a really nasty look under some windlight settings so do a lot of testing before you take a big plunge.  

I usually use them on natural things like rocks. That's just my opinion. When materials first came out, most creators felt that they HAD to have them in order to sell things -- and that might have been true then. Now, especially with Cycles it doesn't seem to matter much.

Oh yes, that early normal map period was horrible.

I think there are four rules for good use of normal maps in SL:

1. Don't include every little bump in the surface - it'll always look fake and "plasticish" if you do
2. Don't use it on its own for too big details - after all is said and done, it's just a fancy form of texturing and not "real" geometry
3. Make sure your build looks good even without the normal map
4. Get the swizzle coordinates right!

No rules without exception though (except no. 4 on my list) and I think it's a good idea to break no. 2 for a panel-and-batten wall. You can't do all those battens as mesh with a reasonable land impact and you really want to emphasize them more than what diffuse map shading can do if possible. (There is a good reference point in the LIbrary folder btw. Eric Linden is one of the greatest content creators SL has ever seen the Atoll Huts are among the very best of his works. I think their textures show how far you can get with just static colord pixels).

It's the same with roof shingles and corrugated metal sheets btw. They too can often benefit from normal maps even for details bigger than what those maps usually are good for.

Come to think of it, there is actually a way to do the battens with geometry at only 4 LI. Two sculpts with 4x256 pixel maps, one for the short and one for the long battens shold be enough to cover the entire building and at least the long batten sculpt could possibly work with a simple low resolution repeating texture. It'd take a lot of work to get them to fit right though and unless it's done by a really good sculpt maker, there are so many things that can go wrong. So it's probably not a solution to recommend in 2018.

Edited January 19, 2018 by ChinRey

[Anna Nova]

2 hours ago, ChinRey said:

....

Come to think of it, there is actually a way to do the battens with geometry at only 4 LI. Two sculpts with 4x256 pixel maps, ...

Also, I never made a sculpt before, so that's about 7 learning curves running in parallel...

I can get the 4 walls of the house down to 20LI as a linkset of 4 with analyzed physics, which is acceptable - and that is with the battens as mesh, but one sided (we will make the inside rooms as separate mesh).  To go any lower has to mean using texturing and simplified structure.  The use of normal map is just one idea, but since I never did it, I'm going to use it as the learner.

The Normal Map Website might be one way to go using a de-colored version of the texture.

Shadermap 2 is a windows program, so not available to me, it looks fantastic though.  However I did find this: http://awesomebump.besaba.com which has a Linux version, I have installed it and it runs ok with fast results on my GPU (GTX1080Ti).

I'll report back.

[OptimoMaximo]

15 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

I usually use them on natural things like rocks. That's just my opinion. When materials first came out, most creators felt that they HAD to have them in order to sell things -- and that might have been true then. Now, especially with Cycles it doesn't seem to matter much.

I'm sorry Chic, but i don't agree with this statement. A baked result gives you static shading from the normal map, but in SL the normal map carries the glossiness data in its alpha, which is THE deal when it comes to materials, much, much more than the specular map does.

 

9 hours ago, ChinRey said:

I think there are four rules for good use of normal maps in SL:

1. Don't include every little bump in the surface - it'll always look fake and "plasticish" if you do
2. Don't use it on its own for too big details - after all is said and done, it's just a fancy form of texturing and not "real" geometry
3. Make sure your build looks good even without the normal map

1. True if you don't use a glossiness map in the normal map's alpha along with a specular.

2. Quite true if you don't include rounded shapes in the formula, a rounded corner can be achieved using a normal map and transfering vertex normals from a rounded source object.

3. True with no doubt. Materials as intended in offline applications are realtime, diffuse based color images.

I will attach here the class materials i use at Builders Brewery when i give the class "SL materials explained"

This is the RL blinn shader model, based on diffuse. In SL the regular texture is called diffusecolor, to distinguish it as the resulting color after render/bake

So you see, SL materials are a sort of mix between the older rendering system and a blinn/phong shader, which can't use proper Diffuse to indicate a metallic area (backward compatibility), folding over to the specular map's alpha, to define which areas of the textures is a metal and what is not metal (dielectric).

I can send you all some sample materials textures inworld to let you see how a material set of textures should be built correctly. Just let me know

[Pamela Galli]

I would like the materials, thank you. Should I IM you?

[Chic Aeon]

7 hours ago, OptimoMaximo said:

I'm sorry Chic, but i don't agree with this statement. A baked result gives you static shading from the normal map, but in SL the normal map carries the glossiness data in its alpha, which is THE deal when it comes to materials, much, much more than the specular map does.

Not arguing that.

I simply PREFER the look of Cycles bakes and rarely use normal maps which of course are an extra download for those that have ALM on (some creators actually use 1024 maps :D).  Each creator, if they make their own items (we are not talking "brand" here) has a look to their work. Sometimes it has to do with the 3D software that they use; sometimes it is about the choices that they make during the creative process. I just believe that it is important for designers to find their own style and not be hampered my "MUST" and even the marketplace to some extent.

Personally I hate cast shadows as shadows and on most items. My personal aim is to have very BALANCED ambient light when I bake so that the shadows included in the bake are subtle -- but also work for everyone, not just the folks that can have ALM on. There are a ton of people running without shadows and materials. For them especially, baked textures (subtle ones IMHO) add so very much to their world.  There are some very talented creators that make dark and sharp cast shadow environments and use (let's call them heavy for the amount of detail included) normal maps. I most often just delete the item as it is not to my personal taste. That doesn't mean it is WRONG, just not what I like and use. 

In general, I (personally) don't like the look of normal maps on many things. In clothes especially a lot of creators and now including materials and non-materials options in their releases --- which points to the fact (to me anyway) that not everyone loves materials :D.  Of course is an item is mod, it is easy to take the materials out of the equation.  

Edited January 19, 2018 by Chic Aeon

[Anna Nova]

Happily Optimo's comments are WAY over my head at the moment.  I am still at the 'find a way to get blender to help me make Normal maps' stage.  I can get a nice flat blue texture out of it, but it doesn't seem to be able to see my High Poly....

What I did was to take a side of my building with the slats on it, they are 0.05 thick.  I call this my High-poly, although it isn't very high in blender terms, no subsurf or stuff like that.

I made a Low-poly copy in the same location, stripping out the slats.  This I set up with new texture, and added a texture node assigned to it in the node editor.

Then I select the high-poly, and then the low-poly, set Selected to Active, and Normal map, and tell it to bake.  Sure 'nuf it bakes, no errors, but also no slats.  The Ray Distance is 1.0, so 0.05 should be well within range, but it doesn't see it.  I am missing something obvious, I know.

I note that Chic gave up.  Maybe this is a broad hint, 'cos she is way cleverer than me.

 

[Aquila Kytori]

When baking, the sides of the slats are effectively invisible to the rays sent out from the low poly mesh. You need to change the profile of the slats a little.

Make them wider at the base as in the image below:

 

You will find better explanations of how normal baking works with google

 

Edited January 19, 2018 by Aquila Kytori

[Anna Nova]

Thank you Aquila.  I did as you suggested and it now works as I expected.  What's even more important, I actually understand why!  So much of my blendering is blundering about following 'push this button' instructions without understanding why.  So I really appreciate you taking the time to explain it, and make the superb illustration.

[OptimoMaximo]

17 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

I simply PREFER the look of Cycles bakes and rarely use normal maps which of course are an extra download for those that have ALM on

Oh wait a minute, i wasn't saying "no bakes if you use materials". To cover those who don't have ALM turned on, i myself use bakes, but then i add materials on top. I know some people doesn't love materials, i understand though that it is due to how these materials enabled things were initially released. Normal maps whipped out of Crazybump are totally too strong for use. but i'm digressing.

17 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

In general, I (personally) don't like the look of normal maps on many things. In clothes especially a lot of creators and now including materials and non-materials options in their releases --- which points to the fact (to me anyway) that not everyone loves materials :D.  Of course is an item is mod, it is easy to take the materials out of the equation. 

Not everyone loves materials, to me, for a couple of reasons: so far i've seen materials with strong normal maps, withuot alpha for the glossiness value and specular maps for metals used on non metal textures. Result: a plastic bumpy thing. Would you love materials if you were shown how bad an item looks like that, in comparison to regular bakes? Of course you wouldn't. But again, if you don't want to use ALM, turn it off, why should you remove something from it because it's mod? You now do not appreciate it, who knows in the future if those designers would learn how to make proper materials and you start liking it. This comment really sounds like you're pulling back to stay in the past, instead of learning a new way to produce content. I invite you to take a look at my materials inworld, as textures and applied on objects.

18 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

That doesn't mean it is WRONG, just not what I like and use. 

You don't like what those creators made. If they just convert textures to normal maps and to a random specular generated from there, with no other work on it, of course it SUCKS, i agree with you. I renew my invite to look at my materials.

 

16 hours ago, anna2358 said:

Happily Optimo's comments are WAY over my head at the moment.

Sorry for that.

[Chic Aeon]

4 hours ago, OptimoMaximo said:

But again, if you don't want to use ALM, turn it off, why should you remove something from it because it's mod?

Well for one thing, ALM does much more than JUST let normal and specular maps be used. It dramatically changes the lighting -- at least when using shadows which I also always have on. It let's people see more than 6 light sources, etc etc.   I never said I was against ALM, I only said that PERSONALLY I often do not care for normal maps.

I believe that as both a consumer and a creator that I DO have a right to have an opinion. It is only my opinion. It is not an edict.  I have had this argument with some Opensim guys a couple of times. It is perfectly OK with me if you love materials; I just don't. 

 

[OptimoMaximo]

@Chic Aeon i just asked a question for something that didn't make sense to me, and you explained it clearly now. Certainly you do have the right to have an opinion, although i keep not seeing what the lighting improvements could really be without the dynamic materials behavior to such lighting, aside from removing the light number limits and shadows add more natural feel as this feature always did. It's ok with me too if you don't like materials, i just think you're missing out on a topic that is used in general in 3D items on many platforms that goes to your general knowledge anyway, and you may probably find out that those normal maps you didn't like the effect of, were probably not the best result from a research on a previously unknown feature to those creators. And many might even not have improved in the meantime or dropped materials all together, instead of learning to properly make and calibrate them. This learning can also improve your Cycles bakes even more. Just saying, make your items the way you like to

[OptimoMaximo]

On 1/19/2018 at 3:11 PM, Pamela Galli said:

I would like the materials, thank you. Should I IM you?

Yes please, i've just seen this message