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... and of course I brought it bout. And then realised what I did. Not the best thing to do on a Saturday what is started sh.ti already. The "creators" are different but the hol stuff is identical. Little bit latter I will do a few snapshots just to show. But in this moment I try to get some answers and hopefully my mony back as well. The best part one of them is have the "authentic" tag in the name. 

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38 minutes ago, Derekmate said:

. and hopefully my mony back as well

for?

items not good? .. because that could be the only reason to refund.

or just because it's not original? ... to be honest i see for that no reason you would get your money back just because it's template work, it's very common, not only for smaller stores, but also "premium" work that way.

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8 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

for?

items not good? .. because that could be the only reason to refund.

or just because it's not original? ... to be honest i see for that no reason you would get your money back just because it's template work, it's very common, not only for smaller stores, but also "premium" work that way.

If you say that you selling authentic clothing and you are selling templates that is fraud. That is why. 

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Sometimes different sellers offer differences that make it worth buying more than one version of the same thing.I have a dress that from one seller comes in black or white but with various levels of sheerness,  and from another is only in opaque, bu tin colors. I bought both You also  need to shop around, Sometimes you can find two offerings that are essentially the same at a big difference in price.

 

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5 hours ago, Derekmate said:

If you say that you selling authentic clothing and you are selling templates that is fraud. That is why. 

Authentic does not necessarily mean the same as original but yes, I think we all agree that's what the seller must have meant.

What if the one that claims to be authentic is and the other one isn't? Or what if the two sellers happened to buy the same standard mesh template and the same standard texture and got the idea to combine them independently of each other? In that case both sellers can claim originality since both got the idea on their own.

Unless you expect SL merchants to make the items they sell from scratch themselves that is. For all the negative response you have gotten and will get, I think it's a very good thing you started this thread because the image of the independent content creator who makes everything he/she sells is a very strong myth and we should remind ourselves every now and then it isn't much more than a myth.

Edited by ChinRey
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3 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

no it;s at most not completely the truth, but no fraud.

Yes it is.

 

Quote

 [ C ] someone who deceives people by saying that they are someone or something that they are not:

And this is from the Cambridge dictionary. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/fraud

If you want to argue do it with them.  

Well done you are the first person on my ignore list. 

Edited by Derekmate
I forgott somthing.
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Trouble is that lots of people joining SL from Europe and elsewhere expect Consumer Protection.  And there ain't any.  SL has no police, no courts, no ombudsman, no arbitration, and no one to complain to.  Hence the advice 'Caveat Emptor', and Demo,demo,demo. 

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1 hour ago, Derekmate said:

Well done you are the first person on my ignore list. 

now i will sleep bad... get in the line, you'r not the first today

 

mustn't get weirder... blocked for disagree in getting money back for a item that's not original...

Edited by Alwin Alcott
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Pretty much what Chin said.  A huge number of creators (my guess is a large majority of creators) simply buy templates and apply textures to them.  A lot of those creators even buy the texture packs they use rather than creating their own textures.   The mere fact that they decided on their own that texture-A would look good on template-B when done in a certain way is likely why they think of their creation as 'unique' or 'original'.

It could just be skewed perception on my part, but it seems that there are more creators using the same templates with mesh than in the pre-mesh clothing days.  With enough shopping around, you learn which creators use the common templates, which ones are using not-quite-so-common templates, and which ones appear to truly be creating their own stuff.  This eventually helps you figure out which outfits really are worth more than just a few L$.    Even with the template creations, some manage to texture much better than others and thus, in my mind anyway, are also worth a tad bit more L$.

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You may be wasting your time trying to get a refund a lot of people churn out identikit stuff using templates, full perm creator tools and products, sculpt and mesh kits, some people will put time and effort in to making them 'unique', some will colour them, others will slap on any included textures package and sell them. You will also see a lot of gachas being resold even if you try to weed them out using NOT gacha in your search. If you see identical products and one is L$15 and the other is L$85 assuming you can afford both you just have to decide which one is more worthy of your money

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1 hour ago, Derekmate said:

Well done you are the first person on my ignore list. 

Alwin is a bit crotchety, but otherwise harmless, and he usually offers up correct answers and assessments on things (even if in a cranky manner).  You just have to learn to not be so sensitive and not take things personally.

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10 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Alwin is a bit crotchety, but otherwise harmless, and he usually offers up correct answers and assessments on things (even if in a cranky manner).  You just have to learn to not be so sensitive and not take things personally.

This.  If i blocked everyone who disagreed with me I would be talking to myself all the time.  Oh wait, I usually am  :D 

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45 minutes ago, Cindy Evanier said:

This.  If i blocked everyone who disagreed with me I would be talking to myself all the time.  Oh wait, I usually am  :D 

Can I put myself on ignore?  That would be perfect.

 

7974d4ba38e3dfed5bbb012815b33826.png

Drats!  Now I have to listen to my constant snarky and off topic comments.

Edited by Rhonda Huntress
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46 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Pretty much what Chin said.  A huge number of creators (my guess is a large majority of creators) simply buy templates and apply textures to them.

When it comes to mesh clothing I only know of one person who makes all the meshes and textures he sells and he hires somebody else to do the rigging. There are others obviously but there may well be so few you can count them on one hand. The big brands pay for exclusive rights to the meshes they buy (or at least most of them) so although the owner can't claim them to be original, his/her store as a company can. Everybody has to decide for themselves whether they think that makes a difference.

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What Rhonda said : authentic doesn't mean original.

Authentic usually means it's not a copy so and by extension, everything that is not copybotted is authentic on the marketplace.

While original usually means unique, created personally. Many event items are original when they're made from unique meshes created personally by the creator.

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38 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

When it comes to mesh clothing I only know of one person who makes all the meshes and textures he sells and he hires somebody else to do the rigging. There are others obviously but there may well be so few you can count them on one hand. The big brands pay for exclusive rights to the meshes they buy (or at least most of them) so although the owner can't claim them to be original, his/her store as a company can. Everybody has to decide for themselves whether they think that makes a difference.

If a creator/store is paying for exclusive rights to a template, then to me, that really isn't any different than hiring people to create stuff, texture it, and rig it -- all part of the staff.  In RL, the celebrity clothing lines are similar to that - they hire people to make things for them exclusively.  In my mind, that does put them much higher on the 'originality' scale than the stores that buy the same templates everyone else is using and simply throws a different texture on it.

Just like RL, it takes all kinds to make SL go round.

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39 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

If a creator/store is paying for exclusive rights to a template, then to me, that really isn't any different than hiring people to create stuff, texture it, and rig it -- all part of the staff.  In RL, the celebrity clothing lines are similar to that - they hire people to make things for them exclusively.  In my mind, that does put them much higher on the 'originality' scale than the stores that buy the same templates everyone else is using and simply throws a different texture on it.

That's the way I see it too but I don't really put much significance to the whole "original art" idea anyway, neither in SL nor in RL. No creative person lives in a vacuum and everybody base their work on somebody else's to some extent.

But I do notice some SL'ers seem to be very concerned about originality.

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It is entirely possible there is a language barrier at play here...on either party's side. Reading from responses, I suspect this plays a much larger role, far more often, than others may be willing to admit. It happens, sometimes seemingly more often in an environment that is worldwide, but, it can lead to a heck of a lot of issues, and TONS of misunderstandings. 

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