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I don't ''get'' Sansar

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Hi I'm new to this game and I don't know If I can get kids in this game can u? and I don't know if this game is a online or a computer playing game??? O~O IDK ANYTHING ABOUT THIS GAME!!!!!! SOMONE HELP or not help me

 

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3 hours ago, TellaTime said:

Hi I'm new to this game and I don't know If I can get kids in this game can u? and I don't know if this game is a online or a computer playing game??? O~O IDK ANYTHING ABOUT THIS GAME!!!!!! SOMONE HELP or not help me

Hi Tella. Welcome to Second Life. I assume you are talking about Second Life, not Sansar. They are actually two completely different things although they are owned and run by the same company.

If you have any questions, I suggest you post them either in the questions section:

https://community.secondlife.com/forums/forum/109-answers/

or maybe in the general forum:

https://community.secondlife.com/forums/forum/321-general-discussion-forum/

There is a much better chance you will get good answers there. This thread is rather long and specialized and coming to an end so there won't be many people who read this.

But to start with, Second Life is online so you meet and play with other people from all over the world. Many people will say it's not a game, it's a simulation, a virtual reality where you can do a lot of different things. There are many games in Second Life but there is much more too. Role playing is very common here and yes, family and having kids is part of of many roleplays and it can actually be quite realistc. But don't forget, it is a simulation, not the real thing.

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On 1/22/2018 at 8:48 PM, ChinRey said:

Umm, Luna and Lucia!

/me goes into school teacher mode and gives them both a stern look

Yes mother... :)

Edited by Luna Bliss

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I have been logging in Sansar from time to time to see whats the hype about, still waiting to see and understand it, I am not a creator, more a potential customer

But whats to buy, the avatars are ugly..sorry , my noob in SL looked better, looking at nice expiriences, well that might keep me interested for a day or two but what else? Am I supposed to purchase an expensive VR on the simple hope its worth the money? No, surely not..there have to be way more incentives to bring people and to keep people coming..Keep in mind a creator is bound to fail without customers

 

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On 1/9/2018 at 9:13 PM, Luna Bliss said:

Ahhh...I think my initial sentence before I went into this next paragraph caused the confusion...the following is why I think various new worlds (not necessarily Sansar) will eventually blow SL out of the water:

"Whether we like it or not (and I do like certain unique aspects of SL) there are new worlds developing that are going to blow SL out of the water. Those newer places are going to be where many want to go -- in search of the new 'shiny'. Just as those in There and Active Worlds went to Second Life when it was the new 'shiny', so they will flock to the newer worlds beyond SL".
What I'm referring to is all these new VR Chatrooms, more of them developing spaces to decorate and interact in as the months go buy, and even a VR world in development (with a contiguous continent), that I think will eventually cause some to experience SL as substandard.  Especially with the resources of Facebook and Microsoft and their increasing development of VR.
This is a lot of competition, and is why I speculate LL chose a niche market instead -- a Wordpress for VR.

If more people played in VR (both VR games & VR chatrooms) I think they'd see the amazing possibilities that could be added to a SL type experience.

It's interesting you mentioned these capacities -- I hadn't heard of all of them but I sort of tune out VR now. At a tech fair I saw this program, sorry I don't recall its name, where there was like a big fan of 3D furniture pictures, taking from both your actual home, and from catalogues. And you could just plunk these things down around a virtual space and it was sort of like SL but not really, as obviously you were doing this outside of the world, to a dollhouse somewhere else, and not as the avatar inside it, which I prefer.

My son told me about what sounded like an elaborate Photoshop program where graphic artists can upload very detailed furniture, and their shadows and angles and such and create a photo that looks as if it were taken of a real-life room. Now why do that, when you can just photograph the room? Well, real estate/architecture photography is a lot harder to do, you have to set up all these angles and lights and shadows, I've realized this on some of my son's jobs. And he can realize he may be made obsolete quickly by these technologies, that this old idea of someone who goes to a room physically, to its reality, and photographs what may be a pale and dull place and tries to "make it look better" with various photographic equipment for somebody's AirBnB -- it's already in the past. What if you could snap all the rooms facets and furniture and arrange them right until it looked better than reality? It's quite the dollhouse. It's not about VR here of course but AR, or a mixture, but the drive to create an unreal thing even if it is much harder to make than th real thing is big, and drives the human race, or at least Washington, DC, this can be varied. This is what W.H. Auden talked about, VR devs capitalize on this as it will make them rich, staying in touch with real reality may become more precious.

Edited by Prokofy Neva

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On 1/18/2018 at 3:14 PM, ChinRey said:

Yes and that is why I'm taking a break from this thread for a week or two. Sansar's next big "moment of truth" is only days away, what will happen on February 1st? Will LL extend the free period again to keep people there? And if they don't, how many expriences will close down when the owners will have to start paying for it? Let's wait and see.

Oh, wait, so all that stuff I built a few months ago is now deleted? LOL ok, I didn't get a notice about that but whatever.

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1 minute ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Oh, wait, so all that stuff I built a few months ago is now deleted?

Is it? I don't know about that.

Luna told us that the three free experiences will remain anyway so if you don't have more than that, you're safe. No idea what actually happened to the extra two free ones for us early birds though.

Anyway, I started working on an experience myself when I saw Rya Nitely was involved there. That's a far bigger and more serious name than any of the other content creators I know of who are in Sansar. Reading his post in this thread settles it for me.

So, all my best wishes to Sansar and everybody who love it but me, I think I'll sit this one out. Maybe I'll change my mind in the future but that would take some drastic changes so I doubt it.

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8 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

Is it? I don't know about that.

Luna told us that the three free experiences will remain anyway so if you don't have more than that, you're safe. No idea what actually happened to the extra two free ones for us early birds though.

Anyway, I started working on an experience myself when I saw Rya Nitely was involved there. That's a far bigger and more serious name than any of the other content creators I know of who are in Sansar. Reading his post in this thread settles it for me.

So, all my best wishes to Sansar and everybody who love it but me, I think I'll sit this one out. Maybe I'll change my mind in the future but that would take some drastic changes so I doubt it.

That's good to know. Marcus Inkpen and Silas Marner are there -- and that is of course an attraction. But I still think even my own amateurish builds will be the bigger draw even with the opportunity to see those other professionals' showcases.

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26 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

That's good to know.

I assume you mean it's good to know your Sansar experience is safe, not that I'm not going involve myself in Sansar. :P

But those free-for-all experiences remind of a question I've been meaning to ask but never got around to: Who's paying for this?

Very few people and organisations are going to have more than three experiences and even if they do, the land fees are so low there's no money worth mentioning in it for LL. Transaction fees in Second Life barely cover LL's actual expenses for the service and I can't see how that can be much different in Sansar.

I may be wrong but it seems to me the Market is supposed to be LL's only significant source of Sansar income. That means people will have to keep building and updating experiences and they'll have to buy the content at the official market, not upload things they made themselves or found elsewhere. I don't know how much sales the market needs to generate to finance Sansar all on its own but we're certainly talking ten times the volume of the SL Marketplace, probably far more. How realistic is that?

Edited by ChinRey
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11 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

I assume you mean it's good to know your Sansar experience is safe, not that I'm not going involve myself in Sansar. :P

But those free-for-all experiences remind of a question I've been meaning to ask but never got around to: Who's paying for this?

Very few people and organisations are going to have more than three experiences and even if they do, the land fees are so low there's no money worth mentioning in it for LL. Transaction fees in Second Life barely cover LL's actual expenses for the service and I can't see how that can be much different in Sansar.

I may be wrong but it seems to me the Market is supposed to be LL's only significant source of Sansar income. That means people will have to keep building and updating experiences and they'll have to buy the content at the official market, not upload things they made themselves or found elsewhere. I don't know how much sales the market needs to generate to finance Sansar all on its own but we're certainly talking ten times the volume of the SL Marketplace, probably far more. How realistic is that?

Perhaps sponsored “professional” experiences which are connected to movies, etc. will be a hoped-for source of income in the future.

*Edit* Like, Ermagherd, Shtar Warsh!

Edited by Love Zhaoying

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2 hours ago, ChinRey said:

But those free-for-all experiences remind of a question I've been meaning to ask but never got around to: Who's paying for this?

Very few people and organisations are going to have more than three experiences and even if they do, the land fees are so low there's no money worth mentioning in it for LL. Transaction fees in Second Life barely cover LL's actual expenses for the service and I can't see how that can be much different in Sansar.

I may be wrong but it seems to me the Market is supposed to be LL's only significant source of Sansar income. That means people will have to keep building and updating experiences and they'll have to buy the content at the official market, not upload things they made themselves or found elsewhere. I don't know how much sales the market needs to generate to finance Sansar all on its own but we're certainly talking ten times the volume of the SL Marketplace, probably far more. How realistic is that?

Linden Lab takes a pretty hefty percentage of the Sansar profits from the store. I don't mind it at all though because I have no overhead to manage while I create. So that is one way LL will profit. Also, think about those who want to create MMOs in Sansar. There are Indy game makers who will need more than three experiences to complete their game properly. So there is another example of profits. Think about in education where one experience is a classroom. If an educational institution wants to hold classes online it's likely they would want more than three experiences. These are just a few ideas off the top of my head. Yes, the economic model for Sansar is far different than the one SL uses. I think that's a good thing.

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11 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

It's interesting you mentioned these capacities -- I hadn't heard of all of them but I sort of tune out VR now. At a tech fair I saw this program, sorry I don't recall its name, where there was like a big fan of 3D furniture pictures, taking from both your actual home, and from catalogues. And you could just plunk these things down around a virtual space and it was sort of like SL but not really, as obviously you were doing this outside of the world, to a dollhouse somewhere else, and not as the avatar inside it, which I prefer.

Yes I was shocked to discover just how much the VR field has grown recently, and it was interesting to begin to get a glimpse of just what VR could be in the future (via philosophers and developers in the field). When one researches beyond the companies trying to sell headsets there is a wealth of information out there, as well as examples of numerous companies and organizations already taking advantage of VR.

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11 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

My son told me about what sounded like an elaborate Photoshop program where graphic artists can upload very detailed furniture, and their shadows and angles and such and create a photo that looks as if it were taken of a real-life room. Now why do that, when you can just photograph the room? Well, real estate/architecture photography is a lot harder to do, you have to set up all these angles and lights and shadows, I've realized this on some of my son's jobs. And he can realize he may be made obsolete quickly by these technologies, that this old idea of someone who goes to a room physically, to its reality, and photographs what may be a pale and dull place and tries to "make it look better" with various photographic equipment for somebody's AirBnB -- it's already in the past. What if you could snap all the rooms facets and furniture and arrange them right until it looked better than reality? It's quite the dollhouse. It's not about VR here of course but AR, or a mixture, but the drive to create an unreal thing even if it is much harder to make than th real thing is big, and drives the human race, or at least Washington, DC, this can be varied. This is what W.H. Auden talked about, VR devs capitalize on this as it will make them rich, staying in touch with real reality may become more precious.

People do seem to love representational reality -- ever since the first cave paintings depicted art (representational reality), and on through our love of books, film, modern modes of painting, and VR. I've always loved focusing on representational reality because it can cause us to see reality in new ways, so it has an enhancing effect for reality. It's too easy to get stuck in mind grooves and not see alternate realities, but the focus makes discernment easier and we can perceive what was hidden.
I remember the period when I was learning about shadows, and focused on them intensely, and so they appeared to be much darker than usual. During that period I went for car trip in RL, and almost pulled my car to one side because for a second I thought a dark shadow was some solid object impinging upon the car!  Fortunately my usual way of experiencing shadows returned, and I learned it's best not to leave the house after practicing artistic brain tricks. :)

It's interesting in that to fully appreciate say, a novel, or a painting, or an experience in representational realities such as SL, to get the most benefit one must develop a suspension of disbelief. So if the artist is skillful enough, and if our imagination steps up, what's occurring in the say, novel, feels real.
But in VR it is the opposite, we actually FEEL like we are really there, and our mind has to constantly say 'this is not real'!   So VR can be disconcerting at first, but finally it settles down and feels like stepping into a beautiful dream while fully awake.

You said, "What if you could snap all the rooms facets and furniture and arrange them right until it looked better than reality?", Taking this one step further I'm thinking, what if you could actually FEEL like you were in that room, so much so that in one's mind there is not much difference between an actual room in reality and the room you felt you are in -- that's what VR does.
I had no idea in the beginning what VR was, and just thought the talk of "oh it's so real-like" would mean it looked so much more life-like and pretty or something. So when I first put on the VR headset, already a bit frazzled from the procedure for setting it up, I entered the first VR experience somewhat unfocused and not mentally prepared, and it about knocked me off my seat! lol I'm reaching out with my hands (that one can see in the VR experience and feel as they are one's real hands), being confused about whether I could actually touch these room elements that seemed like they were there, and kind of wondering if I'd totally lost my mind!

What is the W.H. Auden aspect you are mentioning (I don't know much about him) -- does it relate to something political in how we could easily be controlled by VR technology?

Edited by Luna Bliss
terribly unclear sentences

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10 hours ago, ChinRey said:

But those free-for-all experiences remind of a question I've been meaning to ask but never got around to: Who's paying for this?

Very few people and organisations are going to have more than three experiences and even if they do, the land fees are so low there's no money worth mentioning in it for LL. Transaction fees in Second Life barely cover LL's actual expenses for the service and I can't see how that can be much different in Sansar.

I may be wrong but it seems to me the Market is supposed to be LL's only significant source of Sansar income. That means people will have to keep building and updating experiences and they'll have to buy the content at the official market, not upload things they made themselves or found elsewhere. I don't know how much sales the market needs to generate to finance Sansar all on its own but we're certainly talking ten times the volume of the SL Marketplace, probably far more. How realistic is that?

Maybe the money will come from those who develop Experiences for companies (LL could take a cut). There is a LOT of money in that, and companies usually have the money to invest in a worthwhile endeavor.

Or like Blush said, these companies might need more Experiences outside the 3 free ones. Or... maybe Experiences will not always be free.

I know there was talk of charging for Experiences as they do now for VR games @ Steam & Oculus. If the Experience was good enough I could see that working, as people now pay a LOT for good games.

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Somebody asked earlier about what happens to the additional Experiences that were created outside the 3 that are presently free. They remain in your 'inventory' (I don't believe others can visit them though), but you can't create any new Experiences until you delete the old ones.

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Well... Yes, some (!) graphics stuff is a bit more nice, even i'm not so much impressed, to be honest. Loading times when changing to another "Experience" are absurd slow (with my 400/20 (D/U) mbit connection over cable+ethernet). The avatars are ugly, the options to customize are WAY too limited and no matter what i tried, the avatars stay ugly. Movement and camera controls are simply crap (probably because focused too much on VR stuff). Editing experiences is annoying. Well, probably just my hardware is too weak (Skylake 4.5ghz, 32gb ram, ATI R9 280, Samsung 950 Pro).

But all that doesn't really matter. All i can say is: If SL were like Sansar when i joined in 2008, i weren't staying 10 years in SL for SURE.

Basically i don't really see much improvements over Blue Mars back some years. At this development speed i seen in Beta and see it now, there is no need for me to look at Sansar again before 2022... Maybe... Sorry.

But everyone who likes it there: Have fun! :)

 

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22 minutes ago, Ventura Magic said:

 

But all that doesn't really matter. All i can say is: If SL were like Sansar when i joined in 2008, i weren't staying 10 years in SL for SURE.

 

Second Life had been open to the public and actively developed for five years when you joined.

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22 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Second Life had been open to the public and actively developed for five years when you joined.

Kind of validates his point IMO..

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44 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Kind of validates his point IMO..

Odds are he would have been saying the same things, practically word for word, in Second Life in 2003. I wasn't in Second Life in 2007-2008 when it was the Next Big Thing because the hype pictures looked like crap compared to the Sims 2 and since I was using dial-up internet it would have been unusable.

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Just now, Theresa Tennyson said:

Odds are he would have been saying the same things, practically word for word, in Second Life in 2003. I wasn't in Second Life in 2007-2008 when it was the Next Big Thing because the hype pictures looked like crap compared to the Sims 2 and since I was using dial-up internet it would have been unusable.

Think I joined 2006.

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9 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Odds are he would have been saying the same things, practically word for word, in Second Life in 2003. I wasn't in Second Life in 2007-2008 when it was the Next Big Thing because the hype pictures looked like crap compared to the Sims 2 and since I was using dial-up internet it would have been unusable.

No. There is clearly a difference. Now we have 2018 and Linden Lab have more than 15 years of experiences. They SHOULD have learned from the last 15 years, they SHOULD know better. To release something like THIS to public makes only sense if they want to scare away majority of people from it. SL residents or not. It lacks in everything so massive, that i can't imagine it will convince anyone except people who WANTS to believe in it, for whatever reason. So much poor loading times, controls, lacks of activities (except walking around in a dead world), lacks of animations, lacks of everything, the ugly avatars, just one avatar, etc. won't attract majority of visitors to visit again so fast.

Again: After 15 years of experience and a lot of years of developement (already) the result _is_ simply poor and even more disappointing after all the announcements.

btw: i seen SL first time at a friend in 2005, i seen the potential and was curious already, but hadn't the time before 2008 because too much was going on in rl. But at Sansar the recent state, developement speed and the whole concept isn't convincing me at all, no matter what purpose for.

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11 minutes ago, Ventura Magic said:

Now we have 2018 and Linden Lab have more than 15 years of experiences. They SHOULD have learned from the last 15 years, they SHOULD know better. To release something like THIS to public makes only sense if they want to scare away majority of people from it. SL residents or not. It lacks in everything so massive, that i can't imagine it will convince anyone except people who WANTS to believe in it, for whatever reason.

You don't understand what a 'creator beta' release means....this is different from a typical public release...

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