Second Life is filled with petty and rude people.

[Tari Landar]

1 hour ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

Interesting this thread I’ve created has been derailed from one topic to something about marketplace sales, childbirth, and mesh bodies/heads. Either way, feel free to continue detailing. My thoughts haven’t changed as this thread proves enough to me. I’ll sit back and continue to watch.

You know what I find fascinating about replies like this? (and I love a good derailing, btw, stick around the forums, you'll soon see many topics get merged into the same thread, lol)

That people ignore the replies that actually ARE on topic, because it's easier to skim and then later complain about things being derailed. I don't see how any of the not-on-your-topic-of-choice posts have actually proven anything, other than the fact that humans can converse in the same place about a myriad of topics...and still be, hmm, what's the word I'm looking for....umm..the exact opposite of what you called everyone in sl Yeah, whatever word fits that criteria, but words like respectable come to mind

I will say again...stop looking in mirrors, and go open a window, if you want a different view

 

[Pamela Galli]

7 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

You know what I find fascinating about replies like this? (and I love a good derailing, btw, stick around the forums, you'll soon see many topics get merged into the same thread, lol)

That people ignore the replies that actually ARE on topic, because it's easier to skim and then later complain about things being derailed. I don't see how any of the not-on-your-topic-of-choice posts have actually proven anything, other than the fact that humans can converse in the same place about a myriad of topics...and still be, hmm, what's the word I'm looking for....umm..the exact opposite of what you called everyone in sl Yeah, whatever word fits that criteria, but words like respectable come to mind

I will say again...stop looking in mirrors, and go open a window, if you want a different view

 

So nice she gave us permission to go on derailing. 

[Morgan Rosenstar]

The world is full of petty and rude people and then sometimes they log in SL.

[Akane Nacht]

SL is more known for nutty people. Twitter has rude people. Be sure you are in the right mood for the right platform and all will be well.

[Tex Monday]

On 1/5/2018 at 9:33 AM, Ceka Cianci said:

Second Life Is made out of People!!!

I mean,Second Life is made up of people!!

You mean it's Soylent Green??

 

 

[Jerilynn Lemon]

3 hours ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

Interesting this thread I’ve created has been derailed from one topic to something about marketplace sales, childbirth, and mesh bodies/heads. Either way, feel free to continue detailing. My thoughts haven’t changed as this thread proves enough to me. I’ll sit back and continue to watch.

Frankly, I think your original post has been answered. As I wrote in my earlier post, some don't like the answers they get and find cause to continue to behave as they do.

So...sit on your ass and watch people here try to be helpful, as you think you might be pulling strings like a puppeteer. You haven't won any respect from me with that snide comment, so it shows why people here avoid you like a plague. All this forum shows, as mentioned, people here are kind and adult in conversation.

You just come across as a spoiled princess.

 

Edited January 7, 2018 by Jerilynn Lemon

[Ashlyn Voir]

45 minutes ago, Jerilynn Lemon said:

Frankly, I think your original post has been answered. As I wrote in my earlier post, some don't like the answers they get and find cause to continue to behave as they do.

So...sit on your ass and watch people here try to be helpful, as you think you might be pulling strings like a puppeteer. You haven't won any respect from me with that snide comment, so it shows why people here avoid you like a plague. All this forum shows, as mentioned, people here are kind and adult in conversation.

You just come across as a spoiled princess.

 

Oh no, that’s horrible, Jerilynn. In no way was my post meant to be a sign of disrespect especially towards you. I’m sincerely sorry if I have no respect from you and even more so why I’m a plague to be avoided as you say. My deepest apologies and I’ll take all the ‘advice’ here as something to completely and utterly abide by.

Edited January 7, 2018 by Ashlyn Voir

[Tari Landar]

[Tari Landar]

2 hours ago, Pamela Galli said:

So nice she gave us permission to go on derailing. 

Giving me permission just gives me a chance to insert memes

Of course, I'd probably do it anyway. 

[Ashlyn Voir]

2 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

This is so adorable. Your 2004 memes are so cute.

[Tari Landar]

1 minute ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

This is so adorable. Your 2004 memes are so cute.

I know, huh?

These are two of my favs

I'm guessing that whole getting attention on sls thing isn't going so well these days, eh?  

 

[Ashlyn Voir]

9 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

I know, huh?

These are two of my favs

I'm guessing that whole getting attention on sls thing isn't going so well these days, eh?  

 

Of course, hun  Especially considering it was years ago, Tari Landar. 

[Ashlyn Voir]

Also, with all the passive aggressive shade being thrown, thank you for walking right into the point I’ve been trying to prove this whole time.*

 

-please refer to the title of said thread.

[Phil Deakins]

9 hours ago, Penny Patton said:

they blame everyone but the content creator who sold them broken content

No-mod items are not broken.

[Jerilynn Lemon]

1 hour ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

Also, with all the passive aggressive shade being thrown, thank you for walking right into the point I’ve been trying to prove this whole time.*

 

-please refer to the title of said thread.

Partially true, to a point. You set out to show that posters here are rude and petty, a noble cause to say the least.

As a whole, you canceled out any attempt to show your hypothesis and instead, demonstrated that people here can and do speak to each other with dignity and some admiration. Granted, there will be disagreements, but they are expected and what I witnessed here in seven pages (of which the original inquiry could have been written/answered in three pages, tops)  were adults, not a child who can't understand why there is no safe place here and why some don't particularly care for the OP.

1 hour ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

Also, with all the passive aggressive shade being thrown, thank you for walking right into the point I’ve been trying to prove this whole time.*

There has been no passive aggressiveness shown here but by you. There have/has been genuine positive attempts to help your situation here, but you refuse to follow them. Then a comment of the thread being derailed and how you'll just...allow me to use your words:

4 hours ago, Tari Landar said:

My thoughts haven’t changed as this thread proves enough to me. I’ll sit back and continue to watch

Your thoughts have not changed and I seriously doubt they will. You'll just breeze through life here (and probably in RL too) as the "hurt one, please help me..." and anyone who tries to assist will be ignored, no matter how well their response is thought out and relayed. You will just ignore and play the victim.

Old American proverb comes to mind. It originated in Nashville, Detroit maybe Austin...some music city, that applies here..."It's the bad musician that blames the instrument".

Give it some serious thought before coming in here and laying blame on others for your short comings and failures. I predict this thread will be locked shortly. If it is, be sure to blame the mod for not allowing you to express your feelings.

[Bitsy Buccaneer]

On 1/5/2018 at 5:46 AM, Ashlyn Voir said:

Even on platforms out of Second Life such as Flickr where a large number of Second Life residents share, I haven’t encountered one decent person as many seem fixated on being rude for absolutely no reason. I wouldn’t recommend the game to anyone really. Do you share the same sentiment as I do for this game? 

Quote

Also, with all the passive aggressive shade being thrown, thank you for walking right into the point I’ve been trying to prove this whole time.*

Interesting. So you weren't asking for other people's opinions then? You were just setting us up?

Things like that might be why you're having a harder time in SL than most of us. It's not kind or fair to others.

[Phil Deakins]

About the no-mod discussion:

Those who have been saying that all content should be mod because it will be obsolete soon are simply wrong. The examples given of content that may become obsolete in the relatively near future are avatar bodies and heads, and I have no argument against that view. Where they are wrong is including all content. All content won't become obsolete in the relatively near future. Some might, such as the evolving avatar bodies and heads, but the vast majority of content won't.

@Qie Niangao used furniture with animations as an example, but that was a bad/wrong example. He said that he might want to update the animations after a while but is unable to with a no-mod piece. Since the majority of the cost of such a piece IS the animations, and since you are willing to ditch what you paid for them, either buy another piece - mod with no animations - and put the new anims into to, or ask the creator to sell you a mod version with no animations. No-mod is not a problem in that circumstance.

The point I am making is that, contrary to what has been written in this thread, the vast majority of content won't become obsolete in the near future, so, from that point of view, there is no need at all for it to be mod.

Note: Having been a creator for over 10 years (not any more), everything I made and sold was mod, with the single exception of a sculpture, and I do know the problems that mod brings to creators. It's not just about the buyer.

 

Edited January 7, 2018 by Phil Deakins
typos

[Phil Deakins]

12 minutes ago, Jerilynn Lemon said:

Old American proverb comes to mind. It originated in Nashville, Detroit maybe Austin...some music city, that applies here..."It's the bad musician that blames the instrument".

I like that I play a lot of table tennis and it's amazing how many players look at their bats after they've played a bad shot, as though it's the bat's fault lol.

Edited January 7, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Callum Meriman]

11 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

Qie Niangao used furniture with animiations as an example, but that was a bad/wrong example.

 

Furniture is likely the best reason *for* mod. So much of it's made for huge 9 foot avatars.

Drop a bosh resize script in, shrink it 25% so it doesn't make normal people look like children, do all the aligning - and update the avpos card becomes quite normal.

[Phil Deakins]

The answer to that is to buy one that's not made for 9' avatars In other words, try it for size in the store before buying, or at least stand/sit on it to estimate its size as compared to your avatar. Avatar heights vary so much that it has to be sensible to try before buying.

Aside: the last bed I made and sold was adjustable from its menu - width and depth (not height). I could be shrunk to suit as a single bed for a child, and smaller, and stretched into a king-size bed for a pair of giants, and larger. It suited all sizes. It was mod, of course, but that wasn't necessary for size.

Edited January 7, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Penny Patton]

59 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

No-mod items are not broken.

I highly recommend reading the full statement before rushing to respond. I was specifically talking about content with problems that cannot be fixed due to being sold no-mod. Content with excessive VRAM use, excessively high draw weight, content that becomes broken due to an SL update, etcetera. This was explicitly stated in the post you quoted from. There are many cases were content is sold broken due to an inexperienced content creator or some unforseen change to SL after it was released where, if the content were simply modifiable, people could fix it themselves rather than losing the content or having to live with the consequences of using the badly made or broken content without the option of fixing it.

29 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

@Qie Niangao used furniture with animations as an example, but that was a bad/wrong example. He said that he might want to update the animations after a while but is unable to with a no-mod piece. Since the majority of the cost of such a piece IS the animations, and since you are willing to ditch what you paid for them, either buy another piece - mod with no animations - and put the new anims into to, or ask the creator to sell you a mod version with no animations. No-mod is not a problem in that circumstance.

I'm with Qie and Callum on this. Not all content can be previewed before you buy it, and the vast majority of content in SL is sold overscaled, senselessly costing people prims and land for no other reason than the creator's inexperience. You're also making some pretty big assumptions about where the cost of a piece of furniture comes from and why the person purchasing the furniture wanted that piece of furniture to begin with. And sure, I'd also recommend people who like to mod (or just not build senslessly oversized, throwing money away every week/month because of it) avoid no-mod furniture, but we had a discussion in this thread already about how as no-mod becomes more prevalent, the options for people who want modifiable content dwindle. That is a problem.

 To turn it around, literally every no-mod object I've seen in SL at best could have been improved simply by being modifiable, and at worst was rendered entirely unusable by being no-mod. On the other hand I have never encountered a single object in SL that would have benefitted the customer or the seller in any way from having the mod perms revoked.

[Phil Deakins]

@Penny Patton I did read the whole post, and you did say what I thought you said - that no-mod stuff is "broken".

If something can't be viewed before buying, and if you have a concern that its size might be wrong for you, don't buy it.

I'm not assuming anything about where the cost of a pice of furniture comes from. I KNOW that the majority of the purchase price of a piece of furniture with animations is the animations. I made and sold such furniture for more than 10 years.

I'll come back to your post later. Unfortunately, I'm on my way out now and have to be somewhere in 15 minutes, so I don't have to read or reply to all of your post. I'll be back

[Tari Landar]

2 hours ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

Also, with all the passive aggressive shade being thrown, thank you for walking right into the point I’ve been trying to prove this whole time.*

 

-please refer to the title of said thread.

Oh that wasn't passive aggressive shade, that was direct shade(it also wasn't years ago, but I digress). Your actual inquiry was answered pages ago, by lots of people. Your choice to ignore ALL of the posts that were actually kind to you, and continue to say that people are nothing but petty and rude, is bound to get you precisely what you're looking for.

I know, I know, it's just another "social experiment", right? 

Lots of people, including myself, in many posts, have offered other perspectives, even advice, which you've clearly ignored. The past is bound to continue to repeat itself, when you *admittedly choose* to ignore past mistakes. 

If you want to find kind, generous, respectable, thoughtful, sweet, and a myriad of other positive attributes one could attach to humans, people...you first have to BE that which you're looking to find. You're making a choice not to, and throwing all kinds of your own brand of shade...at everyone, for no real reason. Most folks don't take too kindly to that kind of stuff, especially here, lol. It'll almost guarantee a derailment. 

[Alwin Alcott]

3 hours ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

Also, with all the passive aggressive shade being thrown, thank you for walking right into the point I’ve been trying to prove this whole time.*

 

-please refer to the title of said thread.

get friends with me... you'll love the rest of the world within a day ...

[Penny Patton]

25 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

@Penny Patton I did read the whole post, and you did say what I thought you said - that no-mod stuff is "broken".

Ok, so you either misunderstood somehow, even tho I was pretty clear in what I did say, or you are lying. Now, I don't really believe you're intentionally lying, afterall my post is right there for anyone to read and see that what you're saying isn't true, so attempting to gaslight like that just makes no sense, but I am struggling to see how you can interpret what I said in that post as being a flat "all no-mod content is broken because it is no-mod" especially after I took the time to reiterate the parts of my statement you edited out.

27 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

If something can't be viewed before buying, and if you have a concern that its size might be wrong for you, don't buy it.

Again, ignoring the point about diminishing options as no-mod becomes more prevalent.

29 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

I'm not assuming anything about where the cost of a pice of furniture comes from. I KNOW that the majority of the purchase price of a piece of furniture with animations is the animations. I made and sold such furniture for more than 10 years.

Maybe it's the couple of years I have on you in this field that gives me the experience to point out that not all furniture is made with wholly original animations or particularly expensive third party animations. Yes, animations can be the most costly part of a piece of furniture but this is not always the case.

 When you do come back and check up on this thread, let's turn things around a bit. In this thread I've given you a mountain of reasons why no-mod is typically not good for the consumer. From content with issues a knowledgeable customer could improve upon on their own and unoptimized content made by inexperienced content creators that a knowledgeable consumer could easily fix to content that is rendered broken or obsolete via SL updates or new features but, if modifiable, a knowledgeable consumer could maintain and improve upon to keep it useful long after.

 What we have not heard in this thread, or any other thread on the topic, is examples of situations where content benefits the consumer or creator by being sold no-mod. And I'll even start you off because I do believe there are circumstances where content does benefit from being sold no-mod!

•  If a script is modifiable it's essentially full-perm since anyone can then copy the code and paste it into a script they can turn around and redistribute or edit to their own ends. So it's totally understandable that scripters require the no-mod setting to preserve the work they put in.
•  If an item is a part of an enclosed game or similar system, such as a multiplayer roleplay or combat game within SL, I can totally see no-mod being necessary to prevent people from tampering with game items and breaking the system.

These are legitimate reasons for no-mod!

 But what about a piece of furniture? How does a creator benefit from selling a chair no-mod opposed to modifiable? How about the consumer? It's been demonstrated extensively what the consumer loses in this proposition, but do they gain anything? Anything at all?