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Nalates Urriah

Linden Lab Goes Copyright Nuts

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Some of you are aware that Strawberry Singh, a popular blogger/vlogger in SL for 10+/- years, received a Copyright infringement notice. The Lab thumped YouTube and YouTube thumped Strawberry. Her side of the story is here: https://strawberrysingh.com/2017/12/13/trademark-complaint-received-linden-lab/ I agree with her undrstanding of the Trademark Guidelines.

The problem is she showed the SL sign up page with the Linden logo in a video tutorial on to how to sign up for SL. o.O

Now there are copyright and trademark infringements and then there are copyright and trademark INFRINGEMENTS. Generally use of a copyright that does not pretend to be the owner of it or pretend to offer a product made by or endorsed by the copyright/trademark holder is considered permissible. Some more enlightened companies appreciate the free advertising and promotion. Coca-Cola allows broad use of their copyrights and trademarks. They also make sure everyone know who owns them. So, you see © ™ symbols in videos with a credit in the 'credits' and sometimes even in audio files (podcasts) and certainly on printed material.

I personally think that the Lab's take down notice was way too heavy handed. Their idea to 'take out the signup screen...' from a tutorial about signing up for SL is/was dumb. Telling Strawberry she has to acknowledge the Lab's ownership in the credits or on the YouTube page seems much more practical and reasonable.

We have seen this behavior from SL staff before. Do something dumb and then fight it and stonewall. I expect the same this time.

This is also one of those cases where little things pile up that eat away at the membership. It is nothing that will show up in accounting or user stats. So, management will have no clue what is happening. Of course, we cannot provide hard numbers as to how many users will never sign up because they didn't see Strawberry's tutorial. So, in many ways this is a battle of opinions with no facts to point to.

But intuitively, we know it is a problem. Strawberry's solution is simple. Stop making those videos. Obviously this will be to the detriment of the Lab's SL.

Want to say something to the Lab? Jump on Twitter and tweet @ebbealtberg using hashtag #berryCopyright. Polite tweets only, please.

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LL does plenty of idiotic things, and plenty of things for us to get angry with them over, plenty of things for us to judge them over too...the least we can do is actually be mad at them for those things and NOT the things they make right hours before we start to complain about them lol ;) 

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2 hours ago, Tari Landar said:

LL does plenty of idiotic things

The Lab has some of the loveliest and most dedicated, professional employees possible, I don't have enough fingers and toes to count the number of awesome people I've dealt with over the last 11 years.

The biggest problem, I think, is they really don't spend enough time in world any more. Maybe they need to be mandated - from janitor through legal - to spend a few hours logged in each week. Might be less face-palm level descisions.

Bring back a real Linden presence, set up their homes in nice G rated regions scattered over mainland.

And if they make a silly mistake, send them to prime granite on the old continent for a few weeks. lol

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1 hour ago, Callum Meriman said:

The Lab has some of the loveliest and most dedicated, professional employees possible, I don't have enough fingers and toes to count the number of awesome people I've dealt with over the last 11 years.

The biggest problem, I think, is they really don't spend enough time in world any more. Maybe they need to be mandated - from janitor through legal - to spend a few hours logged in each week. Might be less face-palm level descisions.

Bring back a real Linden presence, set up their homes in nice G rated regions scattered over mainland.

And if they make a silly mistake, send them to prime granite on the old continent for a few weeks. lol

Even nice, dedicated, people can do idiotic things-and yes there are plenty of LL employees that are awesome people. LL, as a business entity, has done plenty of idiotic and dumb things over the years, though, we can't really deny that. The vast majority of them come from the fact that LL doesn't know their own product, and the that LL doesn't understand its audience.  Both of which are quite easily solved. Yes I do think that *all LL employees should have some presence in sl, and be required to spend a certain amount of time logged in, utilizing sl in the same manner(s) that we residents do. It would give them the one thing they're lacking and have been lacking, for years....perspective :) 

Despite the things they've done wrong over the years, though...I still see absolutely no reason to get on them about things they *didn't* do wrong, or at least remedied(very swiftly I might add).  Get on them for things they do wrong, yes..get on them for things they've already fixed...and the response will likely be a "wtf" one, lol. 

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The first thing that comes to mind is phishing. LL could have been worried that the videos were linking to a false signup page.

The second thing that comes to mind is that crusading internet people don't know a thing about copyright law. It doesn't matter if credit is given. It doesn't matter what the intent is. Sometimes, copyright holders have to take action, lest they lose their copyright. It might look heavy handed, and it might even be, but that's the way copyright law works.

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wait so this is a problem, but some guy can put up an entire store of actual ripped models from world of warcraft, league of legends, overwatch, shadow of mordor, starwars battlefront, ect and hes fine? LL doesn't care about blizzard/wb/riot/ea one day turning around and noticing they're allowing some guy to make money off their charactor models, but using their hand eye logo in a blog is bad? k just sayin thats a bit hypocritical there m8.

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LL could notify the companies that own the characters so that those companies can file a DMCA take-down request. It has to come from the owners of the infringed property. I doubt LL has people going through Marketplace looking for such things. They don't have the personnel for it. In the case of trademarks such as the logo, they have to protect it or they'll lose it.

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26 minutes ago, MaggiJin said:

wait so this is a problem, but some guy can put up an entire store of actual ripped models from world of warcraft, league of legends, overwatch, shadow of mordor, starwars battlefront, ect and hes fine? LL doesn't care about blizzard/wb/riot/ea one day turning around and noticing they're allowing some guy to make money off their charactor models, but using their hand eye logo in a blog is bad? k just sayin thats a bit hypocritical there m8.

How is that hypocritical? 

LL doesn't own those other companies, or their copyrights, the companies do. It is *their responsibility to protect their own interest(s), not L'L's. If a company chooses NOT to pursue a copyright infringement, that is their right. All of those companies(and countless others) have been notified, numerous times, that people are infringing on their copyrights. They, apparently, haven't decided it's worth pursuing. This is how the laws surrounding copyright actually work-and it doesn't matter where the infringement or theft takes place, the responsibility to protect one's own copyright sits squarely on the shoulders of the person that owns it. Other companies have pursued the issue and taken the action(s) necessary to pursue the issue, as is their right.  You cannot blame LL when a company chooses not to. LL only owns their own copyrights/trademarks/etc... they don't own all others, nor do they have a say when a company chooses to look the other way when infringement(and downright theft even) takes place.  This is how DCMAs work, even outside of second life. 

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23 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

How is that hypocritical? 

LL doesn't own those other companies, or their copyrights, the companies do. It is *their responsibility to protect their own interest(s), not L'L's. If a company chooses NOT to pursue a copyright infringement, that is their right. All of those companies(and countless others) have been notified, numerous times, that people are infringing on their copyrights. They, apparently, haven't decided it's worth pursuing. This is how the laws surrounding copyright actually work-and it doesn't matter where the infringement or theft takes place, the responsibility to protect one's own copyright sits squarely on the shoulders of the person that owns it. Other companies have pursued the issue and taken the action(s) necessary to pursue the issue, as is their right.  You cannot blame LL when a company chooses not to. LL only owns their own copyrights/trademarks/etc... they don't own all others, nor do they have a say when a company chooses to look the other way when infringement(and downright theft even) takes place.  This is how DCMAs work, even outside of second life. 

i don't even think they know sl exists, but i'm just saying what if someone points them this way?

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7 minutes ago, MaggiJin said:

i don't even think they know sl exists, but i'm just saying what if someone points them this way?

And that's what I am telling you..people HAVE notified them. They have received notice. They do know people are infringing and flat out stealing, their copyrighted/trademarked assets. They do know that sl exists, and most of them do know to the extent that their rights are being violated. They *do not* care, or at least, have not cared thus far. It is NOT LL's job, or anyone's job really, to *force them to care.

The moment they DO care, they can do what everyone else that owns a copyright or trademark does, and pursue the methodologies they have at their disposal(we all have at our disposal actually) to have parties(including the government-and yes, even LL, when applicable) *enforce the rules, regulations, laws, etc... on the books.  Disney does it all the time, as have other companies, and even individuals that own copyrights in sl. The size of the company, the number of copyrighted/trademarked assets, etc... all matters not. Everyone that owns a copyright or trademark, has all the tools at their disposal. Some may have an easier time pursuing it than others, but we all have the capability of doing so.......*IF* we so choose. LL chose to, has have countless others...and the companies you mention, have not. It really is as simple as that. 

Edited by Tari Landar
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On 12/15/2017 at 1:04 AM, Callum Meriman said:

Bring back a real Linden presence, set up their homes in nice G rated regions scattered over mainland.

 

 I would love to see more Lindens on the grid.  I remember when you could request help and a helpful linden would tp to your location for one on one help and it did not require a paid account as I recall.

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3 hours ago, Tarina Sewell said:

 I would love to see more Lindens on the grid.  I remember when you could request help and a helpful linden would tp to your location for one on one help and it did not require a paid account as I recall.

I'm happy with things the way they are.  More Lindens on the forums would mean fewer Lindens sorting out SL (of higher tier to pay for them)  Like the mess they have made of my region Ogilvie, and it's neighbours on Maebeleia this week!

(Come on Linden-guys stop watching forums and reboot my sim!!!)

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3 minutes ago, anna2358 said:

I'm happy with things the way they are.  More Lindens on the forums...

But we are asking for more Lindens in world, not in the forums. If every Linden was mandated to spend a few hours in world each week, and given a home in some abandoned G rated sim to take over, the presence would improve life for madlanders a lot.

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9 hours ago, anna2358 said:

I'm happy with things the way they are.  More Lindens on the forums would mean fewer Lindens sorting out SL (of higher tier to pay for them)  Like the mess they have made of my region Ogilvie, and it's neighbours on Maebeleia this week!

(Come on Linden-guys stop watching forums and reboot my sim!!!)

 I said the GRID, not the forums. Which would in turn put them in world more to see how things are.  Can't you reboot your own sim? If you own it, you should be able to.

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12 hours ago, Tarina Sewell said:

 I said the GRID, not the forums. Which would in turn put them in world more to see how things are.  Can't you reboot your own sim? If you own it, you should be able to.

Sorry I was tired.  I don't own the whole sim, it's a couple of mainland regions that are broken.  And the ticket was raised on a Friday.  Lindens like their weekends off.....

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On 12/17/2017 at 4:21 AM, Callum Meriman said:

But we are asking for more Lindens in world, not in the forums. If every Linden was mandated to spend a few hours in world each week, and given a home in some abandoned G rated sim to take over, the presence would improve life for madlanders a lot.

Lindens on the grid (today):

@Dee Linden

5a3935bfb7832_DeeLinden.thumb.jpg.79b48851943444ef72072b73394e44cf.jpg

 

@Keira Linden

5a3935c116235_KeiraLinden.thumb.jpg.b208f03a61697a42b6708b3cd3b51775.jpg

Edited by Parhelion Palou
Tagged the intrepid Lindens who braved the wilds of SL. ;-)
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On ‎12‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 12:40 AM, Tarina Sewell said:

 I would love to see more Lindens on the grid.  I remember when you could request help and a helpful linden would tp to your location for one on one help and it did not require a paid account as I recall.

That was especially fun when it was to help with a Griefer..they would chat with the Griefer for a minute, then BAM no more Griefer!

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Ive always felt the problem is that Linden staff feel we should be grateful for the right to be in sl rather than the other way round and that the denizens of sl are in fact paying their salaries....Customer care has always seemed very low on Linden priorities and their idea of 'rewards' for customer loyalty are a joke.....

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5 minutes ago, Maelstrom Janus said:

 

Ive always felt the problem is that Linden staff feel we should be grateful for the right to be in sl rather than the other way round and that the denizens of sl are in fact paying their salaries..

 

I would not use the general and all encompassing term of Linden staff.  Some of the previous Senior Leadership Teams (or whatever they called themselves) would be more accurate. 

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On 12/14/2017 at 7:02 PM, Nalates Urriah said:

Some of you are aware that Strawberry Singh, a popular blogger/vlogger in SL for 10+/- years, received a Copyright infringement notice. The Lab thumped YouTube and YouTube thumped Strawberry. Her side of the story is here: https://strawberrysingh.com/2017/12/13/trademark-complaint-received-linden-lab/ I agree with her undrstanding of the Trademark Guidelines.

The problem is she showed the SL sign up page with the Linden logo in a video tutorial on to how to sign up for SL. o.O

Now there are copyright and trademark infringements and then there are copyright and trademark INFRINGEMENTS. Generally use of a copyright that does not pretend to be the owner of it or pretend to offer a product made by or endorsed by the copyright/trademark holder is considered permissible. Some more enlightened companies appreciate the free advertising and promotion. Coca-Cola allows broad use of their copyrights and trademarks. They also make sure everyone know who owns them. So, you see © ™ symbols in videos with a credit in the 'credits' and sometimes even in audio files (podcasts) and certainly on printed material.

I personally think that the Lab's take down notice was way too heavy handed. Their idea to 'take out the signup screen...' from a tutorial about signing up for SL is/was dumb. Telling Strawberry she has to acknowledge the Lab's ownership in the credits or on the YouTube page seems much more practical and reasonable.

We have seen this behavior from SL staff before. Do something dumb and then fight it and stonewall. I expect the same this time.

This is also one of those cases where little things pile up that eat away at the membership. It is nothing that will show up in accounting or user stats. So, management will have no clue what is happening. Of course, we cannot provide hard numbers as to how many users will never sign up because they didn't see Strawberry's tutorial. So, in many ways this is a battle of opinions with no facts to point to.

But intuitively, we know it is a problem. Strawberry's solution is simple. Stop making those videos. Obviously this will be to the detriment of the Lab's SL.

Want to say something to the Lab? Jump on Twitter and tweet @ebbealtberg using hashtag #berryCopyright. Polite tweets only, please.

I think it's time the Lab institutionalized the FIC. They should put people like Strawberry Singh on the payroll, even if for some small amount. That way as company employees, they will not be guilty of improper use of the trademark, as they will be authorized to use it.

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On 12/17/2017 at 12:40 AM, Tarina Sewell said:

 I would love to see more Lindens on the grid.  I remember when you could request help and a helpful linden would tp to your location for one on one help and it did not require a paid account as I recall.

That was back when there weren't more than 5000 people logging on. Today, it's more like 30,000 at a time.

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