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10 minutes ago, Lada Charlton said:

 I also know safety is paramount to any virtual network's long-term's success, and that arguments over the semantics of defining virtual representations of age-play sexual activity is less important than reporting as many *real* cases of this crime as possible. We need to do better. 

 

How can you find "real" cases of this, in sl, without making definitions for what actually constitutes a child av, though? It IS an important part of dealing with sexual age-play in sl, we NEED those definitions, we NEED people to understand them, and we NEED people to follow them, rather than acting like vigilantes that only muddy the waters for actual problems by making false reports.  We don't know that the OP was actually being truthful about it being sexual age-play that was "witnessed", we can only go by assumptions that OP was/is being truthful. I like to give benefit of the doubt whenever possible, so I'd prefer to believe OP IS being truthful..but, again, how does anyone know, really?

Of course as far as rl sexual age-play is concerned, we need to do better, I think that's a given, and I doubt anyone would argue otherwise. In rl, the waters aren't nearly as muddied in most of the civilized world. In sl, though...they are, quite a lot to be honest. What someone deems inappropriate or even sexual age-play may very well NOT be. Which is why it's simply best to AR when one can actually offer LL some kind of proof(NOT just file ARs willy nilly, there ought to be substance with which to back them), move one's own self from a situation if necessary, and allow the powers that be to take care of the issue. Yes, LL does take those reports seriously. Of all the reports LL truly looks into, age-play are among the most important to them...and have been, for years now. We can make guesses as to why they are the most important, and that would simply be bantering semantics, imo, but it doesn't matter, the point is...they take it very seriously. 

Got a friend, she's pretty short(by the slider, she's about 5'5"-ish, a tiny lil thing next to most people in sl, even other shorties), I can't even begin to tell you how many times she's been IM'd about "being a kid", or that *I* have for even being near her. She's, quite clearly to most people, not a child at all. She simply chooses to use her rl height in sl. She's even been told countless times that she's been reported, and we've seen screenshots of said reports-no clue why people have done that- for visiting adult sims, dancing (clothed and otherwise) at various places, accused of every possible nasty thing one could come up with(and I question the sanity of people that come up with these things..but I digress..). It's not her fault that some folks find less reason to DEFINE an actual child avatar, than they find for reporting/verbally assaulting an avatar. Of course even if she HAS been reported, LL is smart enough to realize she's not a kid av, not trying to pretend to be one, and certainly not engaging in sexual age-play.  Like I said...LL takes these things seriously, and WILL investigate them. If someone makes enough vigilante reports because of things they perceive, and LL figures out they're simply being a jackrabbit because they don't like kid avs, or like to make assumptions, or even some other reason...LL will take that seriously too, and one can, easily, find his or her own self on the wrong side of the law, so to speak, for filing multiple false claims. LL's done it before, they'll do it again..don't abuse the system for pettiness, just because. If one is going to report things, one ought to be certain of what they're reporting. 

So, yeah.. TLDR;....report what you can, ignore the rest, avoid the situations that make you uncomfortable, and don't abuse the AR system because your knickers are tightly wound up inside your rectum, there's not much anyone can do otherwise. Threads like this are rarely ever started to actually address an issue..one need only to look at the countless threads about this on the forum-and all of its past variations-to see this. 

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1 minute ago, Tari Landar said:

How can you find "real" cases of this, in sl, without making definitions for what actually constitutes a child av, though? It IS an important part of dealing with sexual age-play in sl, we NEED those definitions, we NEED people to understand them, and we NEED people to follow them, rather than acting like vigilantes that only muddy the waters for actual problems by making false reports.  We don't know that the OP was actually being truthful about it being sexual age-play that was "witnessed", we can only go by assumptions that OP was/is being truthful. I like to give benefit of the doubt whenever possible, so I'd prefer to believe OP IS being truthful..but, again, how does anyone know, really?

Of course as far as rl sexual age-play is concerned, we need to do better, I think that's a given, and I doubt anyone would argue otherwise. In rl, the waters aren't nearly as muddied in most of the civilized world. In sl, though...they are, quite a lot to be honest. What someone deems inappropriate or even sexual age-play may very well NOT be. Which is why it's simply best to AR when one can actually offer LL some kind of proof(NOT just file ARs willy nilly, there ought to be substance with which to back them), move one's own self from a situation if necessary, and allow the powers that be to take care of the issue. Yes, LL does take those reports seriously. Of all the reports LL truly looks into, age-play are among the most important to them...and have been, for years now. We can make guesses as to why they are the most important, and that would simply be bantering semantics, imo, but it doesn't matter, the point is...they take it very seriously. 

Got a friend, she's pretty short(by the slider, she's about 5'5"-ish, a tiny lil thing next to most people in sl, even other shorties), I can't even begin to tell you how many times she's been IM'd about "being a kid", or that *I* have for even being near her. She's, quite clearly to most people, not a child at all. She simply chooses to use her rl height in sl. She's even been told countless times that she's been reported, and we've seen screenshots of said reports-no clue why people have done that- for visiting adult sims, dancing (clothed and otherwise) at various places, accused of every possible nasty thing one could come up with(and I question the sanity of people that come up with these things..but I digress..). It's not her fault that some folks find less reason to DEFINE an actual child avatar, than they find for reporting/verbally assaulting an avatar. Of course even if she HAS been reported, LL is smart enough to realize she's not a kid av, not trying to pretend to be one, and certainly not engaging in sexual age-play.  Like I said...LL takes these things seriously, and WILL investigate them. If someone makes enough vigilante reports because of things they perceive, and LL figures out they're simply being a jackrabbit because they don't like kid avs, or like to make assumptions, or even some other reason...LL will take that seriously too, and one can, easily, find his or her own self on the wrong side of the law, so to speak, for filing multiple false claims. LL's done it before, they'll do it again..don't abuse the system for pettiness, just because. If one is going to report things, one ought to be certain of what they're reporting. 

So, yeah.. TLDR;....report what you can, ignore the rest, avoid the situations that make you uncomfortable, and don't abuse the AR system because your knickers are tightly wound up inside your rectum, there's not much anyone can do otherwise. Threads like this are rarely ever started to actually address an issue..one need only to look at the countless threads about this on the forum-and all of its past variations-to see this. 

21

I spoke about the subjectivity of reporting these crimes, or how rules can be interpreted, in multiple comments above. 

I'll repeat it again: U.S. prosecutors and judges are the ones who are trusted with interpreting U.S. laws around ***** abuse, so LL should mirror these existing legal systems to better protect people if they aren't already doing it (and I believe that they are!).

The waters on these laws in RL are in fact *extremely* muddy which is why millions in civil litigation and 100s of thousands of criminal cases are seen around the world globally in the real world. Only a very small fraction see a positive outcome for the victim. 

There is absolutely no way every new player to SL should be expected to know or completely understand these guidelines or the TOS, beyond what laws are applicable and naturally carry over from the real world. That's the primary purpose of the reporting tool, and that's why the ultimate outcome of reports is decided by LL (and likely their in-house counsel).

I think the "problem" of vigilantes reporting real sex crimes in virtual worlds utterly pales in comparison to the everyday damage done by these depictions. These activities have lasting health effects for the people who encounter them. We should never, ever expect an SL resident to shrug an experience like this off or ignore it and carry on without caring again after initially reporting. LL actually explains in their automated response to reports that they will follow up with you, and that they acknowledge the pain the experience may have caused, which I really appreciate from an ethical perspective.

I also think if the last 6 months in U.S. popular culture in 2017 has taught us anything about this topic, it's that sex crimes must be aggressively and without a doubt pursued and stopped. IMO there has been a major lack of outward community participation and discussion on these topics to better protect people's health. 

Also, it is an extremely popular misconception that only impoverished nations deal with these issues at an RL level. This is absolutely not the case, as domestic violence and ***** abuse, which go hand-in-hand, *never* adhere to socioeconomic or other societal boundaries (ie, "Civilized.") If anything, the data shows cultures that are *more* Westernized (which is how I read this phrasing implicitly) actually have a bigger problem with ***** abuse and related crime rates. 

I also think that anecdotal evidence of abuse due to avatar height, is becoming less common in SL, and used to be a much bigger issue than it is today. I also still believe that this height abuse issue does not compare in stature to the problem of predators or crimes being under-reported on virtual networks. Again, we do not need to look far to see the same patterns in RL societies, subjectively civilized or not, and how solutions have been achieved to protect the greatest number of people possible. 

SL and Sansar are still extremely young networks in the span of all technology innovation. We need to define these cultures early, so we can agree our presence here is ethical and healthy. If this discussion makes a few people uncomfortable or brings up other issues of abuse, then those cultures of abuse need to be addressed individually and not conflated with real possible crimes around age-play. SL's history of false-reporting due to height should have absolutely no impact on a culture of reporting sex crimes, or this discussion, as they contain no real crime and are merely an annoyance LL can do better to correct whereas the latter is a crime. 

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1 minute ago, Lada Charlton said:

I spoke about the subjectivity of reporting these crimes, or how rules can be interpreted, in multiple comments above. 

I'll repeat it again: U.S. prosecutors and judges are the ones who are trusted with interpreting U.S. laws around ***** abuse, so LL should mirror these existing legal systems to better protect people if they aren't already doing it (and I believe that they are!).

The waters on these laws in RL are in fact *extremely* muddy which is why millions in civil litigation and 100s of thousands of criminal cases are seen around the world globally in the real world. Only a very small fraction see a positive outcome for the victim. 

There is absolutely no way every new player to SL should be expected to know or completely understand these guidelines or the TOS, beyond what laws are applicable and naturally carry over from the real world. That's the primary purpose of the reporting tool, and that's why the ultimate outcome of reports is decided by LL (and likely their in-house counsel).

I think the "problem" of vigilantes reporting real sex crimes in virtual worlds utterly pales in comparison to the everyday damage done by these depictions. These activities have lasting health effects for the people who encounter them. We should never, ever expect an SL resident to shrug an experience like this off or ignore it and carry on without caring again after initially reporting. LL actually explains in their automated response to reports that they will follow up with you, and that they acknowledge the pain the experience may have caused, which I really appreciate from an ethical perspective.

I also think if the last 6 months in U.S. popular culture in 2017 has taught us anything about this topic, it's that sex crimes must be aggressively and without a doubt pursued and stopped. IMO there has been a major lack of outward community participation and discussion on these topics to better protect people's health. 

Also, it is an extremely popular misconception that only impoverished nations deal with these issues at an RL level. This is absolutely not the case, as domestic violence and ***** abuse, which go hand-in-hand, *never* adhere to socioeconomic or other societal boundaries (ie, "Civilized.") If anything, the data shows cultures that are *more* Westernized (which is how I read this phrasing implicitly) actually have a bigger problem with ***** abuse and related crime rates. 

I also think that anecdotal evidence of abuse due to avatar height, is becoming less common in SL, and used to be a much bigger issue than it is today. I also still believe that this height abuse issue does not compare in stature to the problem of predators or crimes being under-reported on virtual networks. Again, we do not need to look far to see the same patterns in RL societies, subjectively civilized or not, and how solutions have been achieved to protect the greatest number of people possible. 

SL and Sansar are still extremely young networks in the span of all technology innovation. We need to define these cultures early, so we can agree our presence here is ethical and healthy. If this discussion makes a few people uncomfortable or brings up other issues of abuse, then those cultures of abuse need to be addressed individually and not conflated with real possible crimes around age-play. SL's history of false-reporting due to height should have absolutely no impact on a culture of reporting sex crimes, or this discussion, as they contain no real crime and are merely an annoyance LL can do better to correct whereas the latter is a crime. 

Eloquent and carefully thought out post.  Thank you.

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1 minute ago, JustOKGamers said:

Eloquent and carefully thought out post.  Thank you.

Yes, it was very good information. Think I will file it in my.......wait for it.....pedo file.

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Also: there is no perfect s.e.x crime victim. We cannot expect anyone to know for *certain* that what they experienced was a sex-crime, or to have an absolute answer to what they are reporting. This is why the report tool is built the way it has existed for many years, and is why in any society, including with LL, the reporting process is so far removed and formalized after the initial report is made (in theory). 

These discussions might have been made on this forum in the past, which has no influence on the fact that I find the response to scrutiny of renewed discussions to be downright disgusting. 

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1 minute ago, Lada Charlton said:

Also: there is no perfect s.e.x crime victim. We cannot expect anyone to know for *certain* that what they experienced was a sex-crime, or to have an absolute answer to what they are reporting. This is why the report tool is built the way it has existed for many years, and is why in any society, including with LL, the reporting process is so far removed and formalized after the initial report is made (in theory). 

These discussions might have been made on this forum in the past, which has no influence on the fact that I find the response to scrutiny of renewed discussions to be downright disgusting. 

The point others have been making is not that tos violations shouldnt be reported. What they have been saying is a lot of reports are based more on the basis of something the reporter thinks should not be allowed than the fact it is a tos violation and that doing so repeatedly (ie abuse reporting non tos violations) can get the spurious reporter in trouble

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3 minutes ago, Lada Charlton said:

We cannot expect anyone to know for *certain* that what they experienced was a sex-crime

I know that the man who tried to have forced sex with me at age 14 was breaking the law.  I did not know it then. Now as an adult, I have met several people over the years (3 so far) who I count as "friends" who were convicted of similar crimes as my abuser, whether meeting them through church or something else. I have seen both faces of this situation, having been a victim and knowing people who are convicted felons. Forgiveness has been hard.

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1 minute ago, KanryDrago said:

The point others have been making is not that tos violations shouldnt be reported. What they have been saying is a lot of reports are based more on the basis of something the reporter thinks should not be allowed than the fact it is a tos violation and that doing so repeatedly (ie abuse reporting non tos violations) can get the spurious reporter in trouble

6

Thank you for correcting me on what my personal perception should be and the precise terms of the implicit arguments made in this thread. For a reply, see this comment .

 

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9 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I know that the man who tried to have forced sex with me at age 14 was breaking the law.  I did not know it then. Now as an adult, I have met several people over the years (3 so far) who I count as "friends" who were convicted of similar crimes as my abuser, whether meeting them through church or something else. I have seen both faces of this situation, having been a victim and knowing people who are convicted felons. Forgiveness has been hard.

Thank you for sharing. These stories are so important, whether in RL or SL.

***** abuse is just so unbearably terrible because of this confusion. And not one instance should fall through the cracks because we are more concerned about false reports than the actual crimes being committed. 

I am also a survivor of childhood sex abuse, which is why I take these topics extremely seriously in my business life (as a technology worker), and as an SL resident. Thank you to everyone who has contributed something meaningful, however difficult it may feel. Cultures are changing, but only if we care enough. 

Edited by Lada Charlton
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1 minute ago, Lada Charlton said:

Thank you for correcting me on what my personal perception should be and the precise terms of the implicit arguments made in this thread. For a reply, see this comment .

 

I did not mention anything about what you thought I merely clarified for you what others had said. A lot of what was in the op's initial post does not constitute a tos violation.

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Also, I'd like to add that my most recent interest in these topics came about from reporting more than two cases of age-play related sex crimes that I accidentally stumbled upon from flying around in the last 30 days alone. Both experiences were truly awful, as they involved photos taken of in-world activities with a very, very clear minor avatar.

It's rough out there! 

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2 hours ago, MaggiJin said:

This is what my sister and even i are starting to hate. i went to a sim that required female avatars to be !!!7 foot!! (and males at least 8 and also had a "required muscle slider" numberset) or else they're considered underaged. my avatar is 6.48 feet according to edit shape but apaprently that means i'm a child! hand me some lunchables and enroll me in school!

I have to wonder if op is seeing actual kid avs like smbs or toddledoos, or is seeing people with anime avatars or flat chested femboys and just labeling them "underaged".

wow 7 ft? I'm just barely 6 ft, slim hipped with  reasonably sized breasts. 

Guess I could get reported for underage teen sex if some big butted big breasted earth goddess type was having a bad day.

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2 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

wow 7 ft? I'm just barely 6 ft, slim hipped with  reasonably sized breasts. 

Guess I could get reported for underage teen sex if some big butted big breasted earth goddess type was having a bad day.

It was a sim based on a real city, so they had the "your avatar must be realistic" rule with that under clarifications.

Though last i checked 7 foot tall isn't even realistic for a man..

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41 minutes ago, Lada Charlton said:

I spoke about the subjectivity of reporting these crimes, or how rules can be interpreted, in multiple comments above. 

I'll repeat it again: U.S. prosecutors and judges are the ones who are trusted with interpreting U.S. laws around ***** abuse, so LL should mirror these existing legal systems to better protect people if they aren't already doing it (and I believe that they are!).

The waters on these laws in RL are in fact *extremely* muddy which is why millions in civil litigation and 100s of thousands of criminal cases are seen around the world globally in the real world. Only a very small fraction see a positive outcome for the victim. 

There is absolutely no way every new player to SL should be expected to know or completely understand these guidelines or the TOS, beyond what laws are applicable and naturally carry over from the real world. That's the primary purpose of the reporting tool, and that's why the ultimate outcome of reports is decided by LL (and likely their in-house counsel).

I think the "problem" of vigilantes reporting real sex crimes in virtual worlds utterly pales in comparison to the everyday damage done by these depictions. These activities have lasting health effects for the people who encounter them. We should never, ever expect an SL resident to shrug an experience like this off or ignore it and carry on without caring again after initially reporting. LL actually explains in their automated response to reports that they will follow up with you, and that they acknowledge the pain the experience may have caused, which I really appreciate from an ethical perspective.

I also think if the last 6 months in U.S. popular culture in 2017 has taught us anything about this topic, it's that sex crimes must be aggressively and without a doubt pursued and stopped. IMO there has been a major lack of outward community participation and discussion on these topics to better protect people's health. 

Also, it is an extremely popular misconception that only impoverished nations deal with these issues at an RL level. This is absolutely not the case, as domestic violence and ***** abuse, which go hand-in-hand, *never* adhere to socioeconomic or other societal boundaries (ie, "Civilized.") If anything, the data shows cultures that are *more* Westernized (which is how I read this phrasing implicitly) actually have a bigger problem with ***** abuse and related crime rates. 

I also think that anecdotal evidence of abuse due to avatar height, is becoming less common in SL, and used to be a much bigger issue than it is today. I also still believe that this height abuse issue does not compare in stature to the problem of predators or crimes being under-reported on virtual networks. Again, we do not need to look far to see the same patterns in RL societies, subjectively civilized or not, and how solutions have been achieved to protect the greatest number of people possible. 

SL and Sansar are still extremely young networks in the span of all technology innovation. We need to define these cultures early, so we can agree our presence here is ethical and healthy. If this discussion makes a few people uncomfortable or brings up other issues of abuse, then those cultures of abuse need to be addressed individually and not conflated with real possible crimes around age-play. SL's history of false-reporting due to height should have absolutely no impact on a culture of reporting sex crimes, or this discussion, as they contain no real crime and are merely an annoyance LL can do better to correct whereas the latter is a crime. 

I do agree with many of your points, but I also feel that you are misinterpreting what people say, and I'm not certain if it's because people aren't as clear as you'd like in their replies, or not. I'll just assume that's what it is.

I have never said, nor even compared, the instances of suspected sexual age-play in sl, with their rl counterparts. In rl, while yes the *legal*(as in, what the justice systems of the world actually DO about it) are muddied, the interpretations of what constitutes a child, are not. So, that's my fault for not being as specific as possible. In sl, while you may feel that those waters are not muddied, I assure you, they are. I see it, constantly, because I have one friend who happens to be quite short compared to what some people believe is "ideal"(that's a whole different nut that one will likely never crack). I have had countless abusive IMs from people, I have seen countless reports from people, there are still plenty of sims that have specific rules about "height", it stops being anecdotal at some point. As misinformed as these people may be, it's still very much a problem for a lot of folks in sl. I know it may not be for some, and I also know that there was a time when it was worse, but it has surely not died down nearly as much as people think.

Folks are a lot less vocal about this entire topic than they once were, it's not talked about nearly as often, either for or against(yes, there have been, and are, people still *for* this kind of...meh, sorry that is something I find disturbing, but...yeah, still happens, a lot). While the two may be similar in many fashions, there are also differences that separate the rl counterpart of this whole topic as it relates to sl. I won't, and never would, diminish the seriousness of it, but I also won't go as far as to comparing them in a light that makes them any more similar than they are. As terrible as both are(and they are) *I* personally find the rl counterpart, the rl assaults, rl sexual age-play,...basically all of the rl versions of every single topic we could include here...to be far, far worse, and far, far more in need of being stopped, or deserving of attention. That is NOT to say I do not also think the sl version of these same things is not serious...I am stating that again, because I want it to be very clear. It IS something I take very seriously...and I'm not going to delve into why. I simply choose not to diminish the seriousness of such things by making any sort of attempt of trying to make the sl counterpart of such sound "just as bad"(for lack of better terminology on my part...I'm kind of losing my train of thought here now...)

I still think people should report, I still think people should care, I still think people should talk about it...but I also think people need to ensure they utilize a bit of common sense when doing so, not go into it hell bent on being a vigilante, display a modicum of sense(that's not to say anyone here hasn't..please don't misconstrue that and assume it's what I mean)...and do whatever they feel is "their part"(again, lack of better terminology on my part).....without coming across as someone simply out to cause trouble. We've enough of folks like that in sl...and no one here, or anywhere else, could ever convince me that this isn't still a problem. Like I said, I deal with it constantly, and while my experiences may be anecdotal(they are), the whole is not....the inability, or unwillingness, of some to distinguish what is truly a child and what is not...is still prevalent, and still creates a problem when it comes to dealing with the bigger issue.

I think we're muddling the two rl versus sl version of these things together though, and I'm not certain they should be combined in the manner some think. But, that's just my own opinion and probably holds as much weight as a water bucket with a giant hole in the bottom. 

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46 minutes ago, KanryDrago said:

The point others have been making is not that tos violations shouldnt be reported. What they have been saying is a lot of reports are based more on the basis of something the reporter thinks should not be allowed than the fact it is a tos violation and that doing so repeatedly (ie abuse reporting non tos violations) can get the spurious reporter in trouble

Yes, that.. and I stated that people should make reports....I also stated people SHOULD discuss such things....but please, feel free to read through the countless threads on the subject, it may make why *some* folks are a bit less inclined to believe someone that comes in guns a blazing with vigilante justice against *perceived* sexual age-play. 

No one is saying people shouldn't report it, or shouldn't discuss it, at least I haven't read that from anyone yet. But too many reports of what people *think* is something, that may well *not* be said something, can cause even more problems-for both parties involved, really. I'd hate to see someone get in trouble for making too many reports of this nature, because LL has determined that they've had enough of someone making report after report with no real evidence of anything other than "sneaky suspicion". There is NOTHING disgusting in warning others about this, or telling people what their options are as far as getting matters like this handled by LL(who really ARE the only authority here that can do anything about it). I'd say the same thing about any other kind of report. We have these tools for a reason, and we should utilize them whenever possible, but hat doesn't mean we bhit the AR button every single time we encounter something we don't like. We have to be sensible about it-which is what MOST people have said. Yes, absolutely report when you're suspicious...even discuss it with others if you feel the need. But don't go around the forums, or even inworld with your proverbial pixel guns a blazing making declarations that you KNOW something is something...when you don't really know it at all. That's how the little boy gets eaten by the wolf. 

And I will absolutely NOT liken reports of *perceived* sexual age-play in sl(which is what this thread was about) with an actual rl sexual assault on a child...I can't, and even if I could, I wouldn't.  If others want to, that is their choice...I just can't. 

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5 hours ago, Lada Charlton said:

The federal republican nominee for U.S. Senate...is competing in one of the most hotly-debated elections on the globe tomorrow? 

Honestly never heard of it. Must be a local-only thing and not of interest to the vast majority of the world.

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Well, maybe the solution is all child avatars on Adult Land must be Boneless?..Just puddles of pixels on the ground unable to move..we could give them cute nicknames like slosh buckets or Jello Kids?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by NevaehHeartstrings

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26 minutes ago, NevaehHeartstrings said:

Well, maybe the solution is all child avatars on Adult Land must be Boneless?

Have you ever booted an old (pre bento-skeleton) viewer and looked at someone with a bento body?

The lack of bones makes a huge mess all over the screen.

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11 hours ago, mortalum said:

So sick of child AVs in Adult zones. Skyboxes with kiddie stuff in. Thinking of setting myself up as a pedo hunter and effectively just hunt them out (before anyone starts, I'm not after your kid RP, as far as I'm concerned your weird hobby is your own so long as it's not stripping down and getting intimate). 

 

 

 

elmer-fudd-2-638.jpg

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Maybe I'm too old already, but I go by the principle: What two (or more) adults are doing in mutual consent, and how they're dressed while doing so, is none of my business. I may not like their kink, but that doesn't matter: it's none of my business. Either I go out of the way by leaving the scene, or I simply ignore them.

So do I tolerate childpr0n™? No, I don't. And I would AR (or in RL, press charges against) anyone who even has such stuff. However I do only consider RL photos and films to be "real" CP™. Not hentai, not other drawings, not pixel stuff, not child avis either (even though I find them mostly annoying). So yes, much of what legally counts as CP™ wouldn't count so from where I stand.

That said, back when I was on my first account, and the Teen Grid still existed (and I find it the biggest mistake of LL that they closed that down), I did AR quite a few RL kids under the category "Minor on the Main Grid" - after having them admit in the nearby chat a few times that indeed they were under 18 in RL.  B| One of them, who admitted to be 13 in RL, even claimed that she had been an escort for most of her year in SL! Sorry but that goes against my principle (see above). You can't consent when you're underage.

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Hey, I have just come back after a crazy work hiatus. 

This post was never about *****- people RPing families. Really, that's cool- I might find it weird but hey, I have a lot of weird hobbies too both on and offline- none of which include fetishising children. There's a lot of research into how pron culture affects psychology, some of it really good- and some not so good. 

What I'm talking about is the profit of LLab and users, which they are obviously finding in their best interest to prevent from kiddie pron centres in the sky, with a big red arrow and splurting hentai schoolgirl which would indicate to most users as an invite to come in. 

A lot of the community members later on in this conversation have really given a balanced approach which is intrinsically useful for SL culture (in my view at least) and I thank you for that.  I just question earlier posts which validate the very real abuse of children for profit- skyboxes offering photos for sale in the name of privacy, when said box had a massive red arrow on it and an entrance from the outside. Kids being photographed for profit don't care about your online persona. They don't consent. End of. Fetishisation of kids in adult zones is a contribution to that and actually has such a name for itself now that many of my gamer friends won't touch secondlife- sadly (and definitely disproportonally considering many of us just want to pretend we're in Star Trek, or Wolves, or married on a Tiki hut) it prevails. I'm always interested in the debate over whether virtual worlds and dolls will provide an outlet for people who want to control their urges and prevent that seeping into RL but for now the abuse of real children, for photographs, for profit will never in my eyes validate your right to an eccentric virtual life.

If ****ing kids for profit is less of a human rights infringement than your virtual life, you're one sick puppy. 

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Lets not forget here there pedophilia, and there's sex with slightly underage avatars. No one would have any doubt what a 5 year old looks like, and should rightly report it if its involved in sexual activities, but if the avatar looks 15 who is to say how old it is supposed to be.

And no, I'm sorry, but sex with a 15 yr old is not as bad as sex with a 5 year old.

I'm sure i'll get totally trashed for saying that, but whatever.

*rolls eyes*

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7 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Lets not forget here there pedophilia, and there's sex with slightly underage avatars. No one would have any doubt what a 5 year old looks like, and should rightly report it if its involved in sexual activities, but if the avatar looks 15 who is to say how old it is supposed to be.

And no, I'm sorry, but sex with a 15 yr old is not as bad as sex with a 5 year old.

I'm sure i'll get totally trashed for saying that, but whatever.

*rolls eyes*

Yeah.. this is kids. Some of it RL photographic. As much as people who like to ***k kids try, there's not really much about justifying the fetishisation or photography-for-SL-profit of kids, they're kids.  *rolls eyes*

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I can't really be the only person here who looks at a child pron shop and thinks- lol nope. Or was I so naiive all this time thinking it was all about sailing and dancing?

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