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Prokofy Neva

Should There Be Disincentives for Free Accounts?

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Edited by Klytyna

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On 1/4/2018 at 2:06 PM, Maelstrom Janus said:

Make 'em all pay if they want to support sl properly they'll get an account buy land and settle in...and if Lindens respond as they should reduced tiers all round...I have an account and I spend a lot of lindens so stories about non account holders spending lindens hold little weight..

 

I don't really understand your statement. Is it just because you have a premium account and you spend money, you think that people with free accounts can't spend lindens inworld? Premium members are not the only ones who rent land, buy clothing on MP, give money to other avatars for...um...services. You may spend more money than some people (me for example) but I'm sure that others spend as much if not maybe more than you. 

Can you justify your statement?

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I had a sim for a bit without being premium too. so again why do people think I should instantly want to pay?  I throw quite a bit of funds around, even if it's just to top up the good old linden money tank that, I keep getting myself negative into because of that silly search fee lol.

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@Tex Monday I think his point is that stories about non-premium users spending lots of money are invalid because he, a premuim user, spends plenty of money. I think he mistakenly imagines that the stories are that non-premiums spend a lot more money that premiums.

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4 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

@Tex Monday I think his point is that stories about non-premium users spending lots of money are invalid because he, a premuim user, spends plenty of money. I think he mistakenly imagines that the stories are that non-premiums spend a lot more money that premiums.

Take the land barons out of the equation and i would bet that non-premiums DO spend more.. 

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4 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

@Tex Monday I think his point is that stories about non-premium users spending lots of money are invalid because he, a premuim user, spends plenty of money. I think he mistakenly imagines that the stories are that non-premiums spend a lot more money that premiums.

I guess people have to decide for them selves if premium is worth the cost or not. What really annoys me is guys that brag about never having put a cent into SL and never will, usually while  standing on an escort sim wasting everyones time, including their own.

But even that doesn't include all of them because if u work in SL and earn Lindens you still help the economy and LL' s bottom line because at some point someone had to buy the Linden's you were paid.

 

Edited by BilliJo Aldrin
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4 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Take the land barons out of the equation and i would bet that non-premiums DO spend more.. 

you are probably right.

I have totally changed my mind about land barons. They do a valuable service towards LL's profitability by paying tier on hundreds of empty mainland sims while they wait for that non existant buyer willing to pay their insane prices. plus since their parcels are empty it reduces lag for the rest of us mainland dwellers that share a sim with permanent for sale signs.

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On 12/22/2017 at 6:00 PM, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Your whole idea is simply to punish the majority of non-premium users because you think it will keep griefers from griefing YOU. Perhaps if you weren't so abrasive, you wouldn't attract them like bees to honey.. 

It's funny that you think griefing is only "my" problem. I suggest you get out more, and not even just on the Mainland. There is a ton of griefing, unrelated at all to me.

I think you also have trouble understanding the concept of throwing out a bunch of hypotheses -- and seeing if they make sense and encouraging discussion -- and discounting most of them as you go along -- and advocacy of things like "punishing free accounts". I haven't advocated punishing free accounts because as I pointed out, they're an important source of creativity and customers for businesses like mine. 

Of course, it feels like that to you because you haven't really read what I said and you're just reacting to whatever animus occurs in this sort of thread. I don't have any relatives in SL other than my son, but he isn't involved in these issues and seldom logs on.

Edited by Prokofy Neva
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3 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

It's funny that you think griefing is only "my" problem. I suggest you get out more, and not even just on the Mainland. There is a ton of griefing, unrelated at all to me.

I wander SL all day long. The last time i actually saw any griefing was well over 5 years ago. 

3 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I think you also have trouble understanding the concept of throwing out a bunch of hypotheses -- and seeing if they make sense and encouraging discussion -- and discounting most of them as you go along -- and advocacy of things like "punishing free accounts". I haven't advocated punishing free accounts because as I pointed out, they're an important source of creativity and customers for businesses like mine. 

And yet, you spouted off on how much you want to restrict Non-premium accounts. Such as in your OP....  

 

On 12/9/2017 at 4:36 PM, Prokofy Neva said:

1. Make it so that people can't put items to sale on free accounts  Non-Premium accounts. Plus -- immediate end to copybotting exploitation since trying to force people one-by-one through DMCA takedowns doesn't work. But then this offsets the good I've described of poor people being able to use SL to become entrepreneurs. In my view, this still outweighs griefing.

2. Make it so that people with free accounts Non-Premium accounts cannot buy more than X amount of cash -- because "form of payment on file" can be an anonymous pre-paid credit card. Or can't cash out unless they provide a dedicated form of ID and payment.

3. In that vein, don't allow pre-paid debit cards to be used -- many sites simply reject them. I don't know if this is enough of a deterrent. Plenty of free accounts Non-Premium accounts make money from hooking or money trees and spend it on clothes and never come out of the system.

4. Don't allow free accounts Non-Premium accounts to access adult land. Now there's a thought! What that will mean is merely more abuses on mature though that won't be policed, making "mature" meaningless.

I can't really think of something that would be a good disincentive that wouldn't have a down side (in keeping with my original values outlined above).

You really need to stop saying "free accounts" as many pay more than Premium ones do. 

3 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Of course, it feels like that to you because you haven't really read what I said and you're just reacting to whatever animus occurs in this sort of thread. I don't have any relatives in SL other than my son, but he isn't involved in these issues and seldom logs on.

I have read every single word in this thread. You are stuck on your hatred for non-premium accounts for whatever reason. I'm not sure what your son has to do with what i posted... Perhaps you should actually read what I wrote.. I never mentioned any relatives of yours.. 

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On 07/01/2018 at 10:11 AM, Phil Deakins said:

@Tex Monday I think his point is that stories about non-premium users spending lots of money are invalid because he, a premuim user, spends plenty of money. I think he mistakenly imagines that the stories are that non-premiums spend a lot more money that premiums.

I'm sure your overriding hobby of naturism adds a phenomenal amount to the coffers of Linden labs......

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On 09/01/2018 at 6:28 AM, Drake1 Nightfire said:

 

I wander SL all day long. The last time i actually saw any griefing was well over 5 years ago. 

And yet, you spouted off on how much you want to restrict Non-premium accounts. Such as in your OP....  

 

You really need to stop saying "free accounts" as many pay more than Premium ones do. 

I have read every single word in this thread. You are stuck on your hatred for non-premium accounts for whatever reason. I'm not sure what your son has to do with what i posted... Perhaps you should actually read what I wrote.. I never mentioned any relatives of yours.. 

I dont hate non premium payers I just dont like contributing to keep sl going through a hefty tier for a bunch of scroungers and freeloaders who then claim that paying for a few items here and there mean they contribute more...........

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You've been down this road many times before and had the faults in your "logic" pointed out to you many times before.

It has been nearly twelve years since Linden Lab made the (wise) choice to allow basic accounts in for no extra charge. In that time some of us eventually sought a Premium account for our own varied reasons.

The time for Linden Lab to have enacted restrictions to basic accounts or to go back to a one time fee is long past at this point - either downsize to what you can afford or leave but stop pretending that those who pay for a Premium account are in any way, shape or form any better than those who do not. Stop pretending that the money a basic account pays into purchasing virtual goods, land (rent) and other such things simply goes nowhere at all.

Scroungers and freeloaders ... What an ever loving crock ....

We get it, you're bitter and have an inflated sense of importance. Enjoy screaming into the void.

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15 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

You've been down this road many times before and had the faults in your "logic" pointed out to you many times before.

It has been nearly twelve years since Linden Lab made the (wise) choice to allow basic accounts in for no extra charge. In that time some of us eventually sought a Premium account for our own varied reasons.

The time for Linden Lab to have enacted restrictions to basic accounts or to go back to a one time fee is long past at this point - either downsize to what you can afford or leave but stop pretending that those who pay for a Premium account are in any way, shape or form any better than those who do not. Stop pretending that the money a basic account pays into purchasing virtual goods, land (rent) and other such things simply goes nowhere at all.

Scroungers and freeloaders ... What an ever loving crock ....

We get it, you're bitter and have an inflated sense of importance. Enjoy screaming into the void.

Bitter ? Youre another moron who doesnt like a different opinion to your own.... and this is actually the first time Ive posted on the forum in ages so youre wrong there too seems to be par for the course with you being wrong....Lindens wouldn't last  without its highly underappreciated premium account holders but youre clearly so blind and love free loading so much ....Sooner or later they'll adopt a system where everyone pays....and then we'll see whos bitter lol :D

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Sweety, I pay a monthly Premium and have for a few years now. I've also seen you voice this same, misguided drivel before and was one of the ones to confront you over it in the last iteration of these forums.

You showed your colors then too.

Keep on screaming into that void while reality leaves you behind.

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7 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Sweety, I pay a monthly Premium and have for a few years now. I've also seen you voice this same, misguided drivel before and was one of the ones to confront you over it in the last iteration of these forums.

You showed your colors then too.

Keep on screaming into that void while reality leaves you behind.

If youre paying a premium what are you arguing about you dodo oh yes I showed my colours by responding to your attack rather than by caving into your drivel.... 'sweetie' and dont think Im going to change an opinion just because you think you rule the roost here lol

Edited by Maelstrom Janus

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18 minutes ago, Maelstrom Janus said:

Bitter ? Youre another moron who doesnt like a different opinion to your own.... and this is actually the first time Ive posted on the forum in ages so youre wrong there too seems to be par for the course with you being wrong....Lindens wouldn't last  without its highly underappreciated premium account holders but youre clearly so blind and love free loading so much ....Sooner or later they'll adopt a system where everyone pays....and then we'll see whos bitter lol :D

What keeps Linden Lab going is land, especially payments for estate regions. You don't need to be premium to own an estate region, so I wonder how many of the people paying a big chunk of LL's income are premium?

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Lindens instead of listening to this motley crew lets have universal accounts for all at a lower rate for all...then maybe we can get a reduction on tiers... simple. Maybe at the same time we'll lose a few of those griefers who either wont want the risk of loosing their account or wont find making a nuisance of themselves worth paying for... then leave the way for those of us who want to build and create and pay a fair price for doing it. Thats all I want despite the slurs some of these hopeless forum malingerers are slinging. Thanks.

 

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On 10/12/2017 at 7:36 AM, Prokofy Neva said:

This is a question that for years I've said "no" to.

There is a decided contingent in SL that hates free accounts because they are used for griefing, copybotting, spying and cheating on spouses or SL partners more than they are used for anything else.

But in my experience, the one reason I keep endorsing them is that they also enable people from poor European, Latin American and Asian countries to come on to SL, pursue a design or service idea and make money, and that's all a good thing.

Over the years, I've seen tenants from say, Poland or Italy or China or Russia or Brazil able to come in, start a business, and make money that they use at least to pay rent. Now, then the question comes as to how they will cash this out if they don't have a form of payment on file, but eventually some of them achieve this.

It can be very, very hard for countries like Russia or some Latin American countries to get a card that is recognized by the rest of the world or that isn't confiscated the minute some foreign transaction comes in on it. This has gotten better over the years as PayPal, for example, works from Russia -- when it works, which isn't always -- and certain other things work as well. But it can be hard. It would be good to survey this landscape and pronounce on it.

But the ability to use day-old accounts for griefing that the Lindens are slow in removing, and which can be replaced instantly when they do -- because of their unwillingness to block proxies which I really wish they'd get over -- means these free accounts are always going to be a nuisance.

I've thought about what could be done in terms of disincentives, as the incentives for going premium and providing forms of payment, which generally deters griefing, aren't enough.

1. Make it so that people can't put items to sale on free accounts. Plus -- immediate end to copybotting exploitation since trying to force people one-by-one through DMCA takedowns doesn't work. But then this offsets the good I've described of poor people being able to use SL to become entrepreneurs. In my view, this still outweighs griefing.

2. Make it so that people with free accounts cannot buy more than X amount of cash -- because "form of payment on file" can be an anonymous pre-paid credit card. Or can't cash out unless they provide a dedicated form of ID and payment.

3. In that vein, don't allow pre-paid debit cards to be used -- many sites simply reject them. I don't know if this is enough of a deterrent. Plenty of free accounts make money from hooking or money trees and spend it on clothes and never come out of the system.

4. Don't allow free accounts to access adult land. Now there's a thought! What that will mean is merely more abuses on mature though that won't be policed, making "mature" meaningless.

I can't really think of something that would be a good disincentive that wouldn't have a down side (in keeping with my original values outlined above).

The restrictions are in place. If you have transaction over $1000 USD they initiate a ticket to get full set ID from you since linden is USD backed fiat money in a sense. It is not optional neither, they gave me "ID in 30 days or permanent ban" option 

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8 minutes ago, Parhelion Palou said:

What keeps Linden Lab going is land, especially payments for estate regions. You don't need to be premium to own an estate region, so I wonder how many of the people paying a big chunk of LL's income are premium?

Presumably a lot who feel like I do but cant be bothered arguing on this ever dwindling and ever pointless forum

 

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1 minute ago, Parhelion Palou said:

What keeps Linden Lab going is land, especially payments for estate regions. You don't need to be premium to own an estate region, so I wonder how many of the people paying a big chunk of LL's income are premium?

A point that often goes right over the heads of the bitter, die hard types - among many other points even.

With very few exceptions I just leave them to their fantasies.

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3 hours ago, Maelstrom Janus said:

I'm sure your overriding hobby of naturism adds a phenomenal amount to the coffers of Linden labs......

What? LOL. Sorry, chum, but I've never been a naturist and, what's more, I don't go in for sex in SL either, so I'm not into nakedness of that kind either. I guess what I quoted of yours is just another of the delusions you've displayed in this thread.

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Premium doesn't generate a whole lot, if you calculate the stipend, linden lab would make about just under $5 if you sell everything back. There is indeed more cash for them in estate and virtual goods tax and L$ sales levy

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