Should There Be Disincentives for Free Accounts?

[Aislin Ceawlin]

16 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I realize many people want to bluster and swagger that they are better than me because they "just know" that you "can't feed the trolls" and you should "ignore griefers" blah blah. Most people have no idea what they're talking about because they haven't experienced what I have, nor do they realize that their convictions about what methods to use actually don't work.

So bigmoe, call me when you have had a succession of 50 alts invade all your groups -- and many other people's groups -- or made conference calls out of your friends or customers or random people -- and spouted racist, bigoted nonsense pretending to be you.

Call me after you've had hundreds of people spew hate at you and even spam because they think you're behind this alt.

Ignore that -- go ahead, I do. Abuse report it till the cows come home. Do that for months on end. Then tell me about it.

And that's only the tip of the iceberg. I don't think you realize what is involved in concerted griefing, including with a state behind it.

Maybe you'd have less griefing if you didn't straight out call people pedophiles and the like in your publicly accessible list. Maaayyybeee, you'd have less griefing if you got rid of that????  Just a thought.

[Aislin Ceawlin]

9 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Perhaps there's a reason for that.

There's a reason that pilots need special "instrument" training to fly through heavy clouds when they can't see the ground. Our senses aren't designed for us to fly - they can't tell us how we're moving, only when we change how we're moving.

If you're flying, it's very easy to have one wing drop, making you bank. Our inner ears can't tell us when this is happening. If we can see the horizon you can quickly - even by reflex - adjust things so that you're flying level again. However, when you're in a cloud and one of your wings drops, a chain of events starts happening.

1) You start to turn.

1) You lose some of your lift, so your nose starts to drop and you start a shallow dive.

2) The dive increases your speed.

2) The increase in speed tightens your turn, meaning you bank more, dive more steeply and go faster, all without your moving the controls of your airplane.

This will keep feeding itself until you enter what's known as a "graveyard spiral" and drill yourself into the ground. However, all through this your inner ear still tells you that you're flying straight and level, because the changes in forces all balance each other. Without some sort of outside reference like a natural or artificial horizon you won't even realize this is happening until it's too late.

This is all so counter-intuitive that some pilots don't believe it and they fly through clouds without training.

Not for long, though.

 

Few others have gone through what you've been through.

Few others have been banned from as many official channels as you, too.

Things feed themselves without your even realizing it.

Hey Theresa, are you a RL pilot too???

[Avaraia Aljon]

1 hour ago, Aislin Ceawlin said:

Maybe you'd have less griefing if you didn't straight out call people pedophiles and the like in your publicly accessible list. Maaayyybeee, you'd have less griefing if you got rid of that????  Just a thought.

And so it all starts to unravel.

[Aislin Ceawlin]

45 minutes ago, Avaraia Aljon said:

And so it all starts to unravel.

This is in a nc that is apparently automatically given to all avies who go to her rental office. 

The following is a list of people who have been expelled and banned from Ravenglass Rentals or related tenant groups and are not permitted to rent again for repeated, gross violation of either/or the Ravenglass lease rules or the Linden Lab TOS.

*NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED* (and variants) - overprimming, taking mulitiple homes in limit one per customer area despite notices, not paying rent, occupying empty homes. 

*NAME REDACTED* - obnoxious, high maintenance after being told a parcel in a grace period wasn't available and claimed to "report me" to LL. 

*NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED* - thousand plus prim sim-wide squatters, removed within a day of building their sky empire in Free Tibet. 

*NAME REDACTED* -- big whiner and time-waster, persistent lack of comprehension despite an hour of help and different offers including full refund.

*NAME REDACTED* - chronic overprimming, house below required height in sky, angry posts in the group b/c failed to read repeated messages to him about his own violations.

*NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED*, all overprimming greatly in Ravenglass where they were given a free month's rental in a contest ($250/250 is regular price versus 630 prims). After a month, asked to convert to pay but insisted boat prims shouldn't count, tho lease says *mgt* prims don't count. Then made up a story about how rentals in another sim covered it. There, in Refugio, they were also overprimming. 

*NAME REDACTED*, squatting in Columbia, prim spamming.

*NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED*, rudeness despite being helped multiple times, threats to defame business, etc. 

*NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED* - *NAME REDACTED* repeatedly warned on overprimming and taking more than one in subsidized area; *NAME REDACTED* her partner triple over-primmed so they are all permanently banned.

*NAME REDACTED* - squatter in Grahica

*NAME REDACTED* - despite many years of good behavior as tenant, inexplicable repeated refusal to remove extra prims and cease commercial activity.

*NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED*. Squatters and/or griefers in Grace. Was owner of object with racist and porn spam placed on land for sale and also Linden land.

*NAME REDACTED* and *NAME REDACTED* - obsession with spies, claim to be spying on me (!), constant complaints, threats to report to Linden Lab etc. Banned from group and land.

*NAME REDACTED* - repeated and gross squatter in Wakeley and Ravenglass. Banned from groups and land.

*NAME REDACTED* - repeated late rent, sim-lagging items on physics, verbal abuse, threats.

*NAME REDACTED* - squatting, repeated late rent, overprimming.

*NAME REDACTED* - overprimming repeatedly, harassment, threats. Repeated entry into sims where banned.

*NAME REDACTED* - partner of *NAME REDACTED*.

*NAME REDACTED* - covering the island in Ross with snow, mist and tornados on multiple lots. 

*NAME REDACTED* - *****, vulgar language.

*NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED* and other alts - threats, harassment, disparaging reputation with renters, further threats over railroad issue.

*NAME REDACTED* (attempt at multiple lots in dollar area) *NAME REDACTED* (squatting unpaid), *NAME REDACTED* (threats), *NAME REDACTED* (harassment, threats), *NAME REDACTED* (harassment, threats, spamming from MP).

*NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED*, former tenants then squatters who placed a hotel with rooms for rent in the SL Public Land Preserve.

*NAME REDACTED* - abusive behavior, threats

*NAME REDACTED* - gross squatter at free vending area - Refugio

*NAME REDACTED* and *NAME REDACTED* - either alts or a couple, refusal to leave 2nd dollar rental in a community with limit one per customer. Repeated efforts to pretend separate people/not a couple - Columbia.

*NAME REDACTED* - overprimming - Grote
*NAME REDACTED* - overprimming, putting landlord in ban list, jumping from one parcel to the next ahead of bans - Grote
*NAME REDACTED* - overprimming - Grote

*NAME REDACTED* - overreaction to griefing neighbour, disruption of the group with chat, threaten to tell hippie community members not to rent from Ravenglass - Tethys

*NAME REDACTED* - threats to report to LL for "fraud" - Furness

*NAME REDACTED* - quadruple overprimmer, BDSM prostitute - Baileya
*NAME REDACTED* - overprimmer, BDSM prostitute - Baileya

*NAME REDACTED* - repeated allowing of dogs to roam on other people's yards and primming other people's lands despite repeated warnings - Cub

*NAME REDACTED* - repeated overprimming, commercial vendors on residential area, verbal harassment, forums harassment - Refugio (with *NAME REDACTED*)

*NAME REDACTED* - repeated overprimming despite repeated warnings, repeated placement of prims on others' rentals, verbal harassment - Obscure

*NAME REDACTED* - repeated harassment and threats directly and in group chat; use of 3rd party browser or exploit to remain in group - Grote

*NAME REDACTED* - repeated, aggressive squatter, harassment. - Itume

*NAME REDACTED* - friend of colorforest sending her group chat around to bloggers, threats, vulgarity - Grote

*NAME REDACTED* - repeatedly late with rent payments, evasion of late fine, refusal to remove club, spinning objects under rules, use of alts and friends to threaten reprisals, terror-forming of land and griefing of communities. Alts: *NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED* - *NAME REDACTED* and *NAME REDACTED*

Edited December 23, 2017 by Aislin Ceawlin

[Avaraia Aljon]

1 minute ago, Aislin Ceawlin said:

This is in a nc that is apparently automatically given to all avies who go to her rental office. 

The following is a list of people who have been expelled and banned from Ravenglass Rentals or related tenant groups and are not permitted to rent again for repeated, gross violation of either/or the Ravenglass lease rules or the Linden Lab TOS.

*NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED* (and variants) - overprimming, taking mulitiple homes in limit one per customer area despite notices, not paying rent, occupying empty homes. 

*NAME REDACTED* - obnoxious, high maintenance after being told a parcel in a grace period wasn't available and claimed to "report me" to LL. 

*NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED* - thousand plus prim sim-wide squatters, removed within a day of building their sky empire in Free Tibet. 

*NAME REDACTED* -- big whiner and time-waster, persistent lack of comprehension despite an hour of help and different offers including full refund.

*NAME REDACTED* - chronic overprimming, house below required height in sky, angry posts in the group b/c failed to read repeated messages to him about his own violations.

*NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED*, all overprimming greatly in Ravenglass where they were given a free month's rental in a contest ($250/250 is regular price versus 630 prims). After a month, asked to convert to pay but insisted boat prims shouldn't count, tho lease says *mgt* prims don't count. Then made up a story about how rentals in another sim covered it. There, in Refugio, they were also overprimming. 

*NAME REDACTED*, squatting in Columbia, prim spamming.

*NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED*, rudeness despite being helped multiple times, threats to defame business, etc. 

*NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED* - *NAME REDACTED* repeatedly warned on overprimming and taking more than one in subsidized area; *NAME REDACTED* her partner triple over-primmed so they are all permanently banned.

*NAME REDACTED* - squatter in Grahica

*NAME REDACTED* - despite many years of good behavior as tenant, inexplicable repeated refusal to remove extra prims and cease commercial activity.

*NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED*. Squatters and/or griefers in Grace. Was owner of object with racist and porn spam placed on land for sale and also Linden land.

*NAME REDACTED* and *NAME REDACTED* - obsession with spies, claim to be spying on me (!), constant complaints, threats to report to Linden Lab etc. Banned from group and land.

*NAME REDACTED* - repeated and gross squatter in Wakeley and Ravenglass. Banned from groups and land.

*NAME REDACTED* - repeated late rent, sim-lagging items on physics, verbal abuse, threats.

*NAME REDACTED* - squatting, repeated late rent, overprimming.

*NAME REDACTED* - overprimming repeatedly, harassment, threats. Repeated entry into sims where banned.

*NAME REDACTED* - partner of *NAME REDACTED*.

*NAME REDACTED* - covering the island in Ross with snow, mist and tornados on multiple lots. 

*NAME REDACTED* - *****, vulgar language.

*NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED* and other alts - threats, harassment, disparaging reputation with renters, further threats over railroad issue.

*NAME REDACTED* (attempt at multiple lots in dollar area) *NAME REDACTED* (squatting unpaid), *NAME REDACTED* (threats), *NAME REDACTED* (harassment, threats), *NAME REDACTED* (harassment, threats, spamming from MP).

*NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED*, former tenants then squatters who placed a hotel with rooms for rent in the SL Public Land Preserve.

*NAME REDACTED* - abusive behavior, threats

*NAME REDACTED* - gross squatter at free vending area - Refugio

*NAME REDACTED* and *NAME REDACTED* - either alts or a couple, refusal to leave 2nd dollar rental in a community with limit one per customer. Repeated efforts to pretend separate people/not a couple - Columbia.

*NAME REDACTED* - overprimming - Grote
*NAME REDACTED* - overprimming, putting landlord in ban list, jumping from one parcel to the next ahead of bans - Grote
*NAME REDACTED* - overprimming - Grote

*NAME REDACTED* - overreaction to griefing neighbour, disruption of the group with chat, threaten to tell hippie community members not to rent from Ravenglass - Tethys

*NAME REDACTED* - threats to report to LL for "fraud" - Furness

*NAME REDACTED* - quadruple overprimmer, BDSM prostitute - Baileya
*NAME REDACTED* - overprimmer, BDSM prostitute - Baileya

*NAME REDACTED* - repeated allowing of dogs to roam on other people's yards and primming other people's lands despite repeated warnings - Cub

*NAME REDACTED* - repeated overprimming, commercial vendors on residential area, verbal harassment, forums harassment - Refugio (with *NAME REDACTED*)

*NAME REDACTED* - repeated overprimming despite repeated warnings, repeated placement of prims on others' rentals, verbal harassment - Obscure

*NAME REDACTED* - repeated harassment and threats directly and in group chat; use of 3rd party browser or exploit to remain in group - Grote

*NAME REDACTED* - repeated, aggressive squatter, harassment. - Itume

*NAME REDACTED* - friend of colorforest sending her group chat around to bloggers, threats, vulgarity - Grote

*NAME REDACTED* - repeatedly late with rent payments, evasion of late fine, refusal to remove club, spinning objects under rules, use of alts and friends to threaten reprisals, terror-forming of land and griefing of communities. Alts: *NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED*, *NAME REDACTED* - *NAME REDACTED* and *NAME REDACTED*

I have to question why anyone entering the sim would give a flying ***** why and who is banned from rental and why anyone thinks a name and shame is necessary.

This screams of someone who adores drama and attention it gives. no wonder this person sees more greifers then the rest of us combined. I have to even wonder if they like the greifers only because they give them drama to talk about.

[KanryDrago]

7 hours ago, Avaraia Aljon said:

I have to question why anyone entering the sim would give a flying ***** why and who is banned from rental and why anyone thinks a name and shame is necessary.

This screams of someone who adores drama and attention it gives. no wonder this person sees more greifers then the rest of us combined. I have to even wonder if they like the greifers only because they give them drama to talk about.

then examine her post history here and see she is even more obnoxious in person

[Solar Legion]

12 hours ago, KanryDrago said:

then examine her post history here and see she is even more obnoxious in person

A good chunk of the post history has been lost to time as well between a few of the moves Linden Lab has made. The current read only backup of the forum only covers one, maybe two different iterations from the past and certainly does not cover the Blog Comments version of the forum we had at one point.

Making it even worse there are people that buy into the fiction that said poster has had quite the impact on a few historical events within Second Life - a laughable motion at best as it utterly ignores the impact that others have had as well. 

[Adams Scarmon]

Instead of limiting free acounts they should make premium accounts more attractive really.

[Nikolai Warden]

I think that the majority of free accounts are not griefing/stalker or content theft or scammer accounts. I think it is just that there is no incentive to be a premium member unless one wishes to own mainland parcels.

The majority of people I have met in SL with premium accounts have them in order to live economically in SL. A Linden home, and 300L a week that they save up in order to shop in SL, and whatever other perks premium membership offers. I suspect it is the opposite of what severa, here seem to think ... LL may attempt to peddle premium accounts as being oh, better or elitist or what have you, but those I know with free accounts spend more in SL in a month than many with premium accounts spend in a year, including the cost of the premium membership.

As to the issues of griefing, stalking, content theft, and scamming, other than the last on the list, I suspect  there is much less of that in SL than one would suppose if one goes by the content of the forums.

[Janet Voxel]

Since SL is a very “me too” kind of environment, disincentives to free accounts won’t help LL. It probably would be two steps backward for them. I’ve been here for 8 years and I just became premium in the summer and that’s because I finally saw the benefit of having a parcel of land.

The question is does LL actually want more premium members? If they did, I’m sure they could come up with better ways to entice people to get a premium account. Increasing the land allowance to 1024 or 1280 would help. Increasing the weekly stipend to an amount that allows you to buy more than a single item of clothing would also help.

You can catch more flies with honey....

[Madison Heartsong]

First, I agree with most that it would do more harm than good to eliminate or give significant disincentives to non-premium accounts.  From the fact they're the majority on SL and overall certainly improve the experience to the fact that real estate barons who make money from renting would be put out of business, to the fact that if it cost everyone money, paid every month or paid less often or more at a time, from the start to play, there would be a lot less people starting to play.  Some of those will end up buying premium accounts or spending money and the others will mostly quit.  What one can get for free isn't worthwhile.  The closest anyone comes is working at a job on SL to be able to afford things that aren't free.

More people ought to be on premium accounts, but mostly they should be incentivized to do so, by being given more goodies.  1024 sq m of land instead of 512, as suggested, is a good idea; or maybe LL could partner with some sellers to give premium account holders a 10% discount in their stores 10% of the 10% discount would be reimbursed by LL (1% of the total purchase price), but merchants' main gain would be being on a list where premium account holders know they get a discount.  The discount would be in-store, not on MP, so they'd get extra visitors to their in-world store, and that might lead to at least a 10% increase in the gross value of their sales.  If enough merchants did it, it's like a small stipend increase that LL only pays a small fraction of.

But while I'm defending non-premium accounts, I'm avoiding defending free accounts, supporting an idea I saw upthread.  There would be disincentives to accounts where nothing has been paid at all (buying Lindens not counting).  Those are the ones that can be throwaways.  They have to be allowed to exist.  Some people won't pay anything to start.  They can't be made so awful that no one could have a good experience in one.  But those are the ones that are more likely to be used for nefarious purposes, from griefing to spying.  They should not have to go premium or ever pay a monthly fee to avoid restrictions. 

But I agree with Rhonda Huntress' idea:  They must pay a one-time $5 fee, within 90 days of creation, to make their account permanent forever (or being premium for even one month would do the same).  Heck, maybe if they never get cited for a TOS violation, then one year after they pay the $5 fee they get it back in its Linden value.  But meanwhile, those who never paid the $5, people would have the option of excluding such players from their land, and everything would have an option not to deal with those who were "unconfirmed" accounts (meaning they'd neither ever been premium nor paid the $5 fee).  Those would include many anti-griefer, anti-stalker options, including being totally invisible and unsearchable, if so choosing to anyone unconfirmed.  Some would be disabled to them by default, though no one would have to keep anything turned off to them (outside perhaps of commonly used griefer measures like particle effects).  Once they confirmed the account by paying the $5 (or going premium for even a month), all restrictions would be permanently dropped.

Someone might be deterred from starting if they had to pay even a one-time $5 fee to start, but within 90 days (or sooner, to get restrictions dropped) if one liked SL enough they wanted to play it, paying a one time $5 fee wouldn't deter much of anyone-- unless they were totally not serious about their account, the way a griefer would want to use a throwaway.  If they didn't confirm the account with the one time $5 fee in 90 days, the account would be discarded.

Finally, wow about the tier fee.  You can't log in with an unpaid tier fee?  Not even, say, to sell the land?  That's way too harsh.  They should let people log in in that spot, just not use the land at all except to have a way to put it on sale.

[Alwin Alcott]

19 minutes ago, Madison531 said:

Finally, wow about the tier fee.  You can't log in with an unpaid tier fee?  Not even, say, to sell the land?  That's way too harsh.  They should let people log in in that spot, just not use the land at all except to have a way to put it on sale.

agree, this should change... but easier... not able to take tier fee?... next day you find your stuff returned and your land reclaimed.

If your payment info is up to date it's, normally, not possible to get behind in payments.

Also the resident has a responsibility in this.

If you manage to skip your rent or mortgage in rl they also don't say, "you'r such sweet girl... here you go,  come pay later at your convenience..." .. we'r not in a charity institution.

 

[Madison Heartsong]

6 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

agree, this should change... but easier... not able to take tier fee?... next day you find your stuff returned and your land reclaimed.

If your payment info is up to date it's, normally, not possible to get behind in payments.

Also the resident has a responsibility in this.

If you manage to skip your rent or mortgage in rl they also don't say, "you'r such sweet girl... here you go,  come pay later at your convenience..." .. we'r not in a charity institution.

 

 

Actually by law if I missed my rent my landlord would have 10 days before they could even initiate an eviction...but even if they could evict me the first day, I'm saying go ahead and evict me from my land in SL if I were to ever fail to pay the tier fee.  I'd be barred from using my land (what is it on it, I should get something like the same notice and 10 days I'd be entitled to in real life before it was all returned, so if I did pay within the 10 days it would be there where I left it)...but don't evict me from SL.  I might even lose premium status until paid, but could still log on, as if I'd always only had a free account-- as I wouldn't have paid.  The analogy if I couldn't log in at all would be to putting me in jail if I were behind on my rent.

Then it wouldn't even be "pay it late, no consequences" in that case, even though I'm saying not to touch my stuff for 10 days.  I'd fully expect that it wouldn't change my due date and to get my land back without everything thrown back into my inventory I'd be paying for the time I wasn't able to access the land and couldn't use it as part of the payment.

I once had identity theft happen to me, had to cancel my bank account, etc..  For a short time period no payment method would have worked, as I had to change bank accounts and my cards.  I shouldn't be locked out of SL if that happened again.  It's disproportionate, an incentive not to have a premium account and to instead rent, because if I were late on rent to a private SL landlord I'd probably lose access to the rental land, but would at least still be able to log in.

[Parhelion Palou]

18 minutes ago, Madison531 said:

Someone might be deterred from starting if they had to pay even a one-time $5 fee to start, but within 90 days (or sooner, to get restrictions dropped) if one liked SL enough they wanted to play it, paying a one time $5 fee wouldn't deter much of anyone-- unless they were totally not serious about their account, the way a griefer would want to use a throwaway.  If they didn't confirm the account with the one time $5 fee in 90 days, the account would be discarded.

The purpose of a $5 fee is to give LL additional income? There's no deterrence to griefers at all -- they create an account & get 90 days of griefing until the account is closed by LL (or they're caught and lose the account).

42 minutes ago, Madison531 said:

But meanwhile, those who never paid the $5, people would have the option of excluding such players from their land, and everything would have an option not to deal with those who were "unconfirmed" accounts (meaning they'd neither ever been premium nor paid the $5 fee).  Those would include many anti-griefer, anti-stalker options, including being totally invisible and unsearchable, if so choosing to anyone unconfirmed.  Some would be disabled to them by default, though no one would have to keep anything turned off to them (outside perhaps of commonly used griefer measures like particle effects). 

Most of what's often called griefing is basically idiots being annoying, but either way it's generally found on Linden-owned land such as the Social Islands and Help Islands. LL isn't about to make a lot of changes (at a lot of expense) to how SL works for what's really not that big a problem. Stay away from where the kiddies play. Block and ignore them. Feed them, as the OP does, and the problem gets worse.

[rasterscan]

How about *paying* for a 'proper' name instead of Resident as surname ? I would.

[Madison Heartsong]

1 minute ago, Parhelion Palou said:

The purpose of a $5 fee is to give LL additional income? There's no deterrence to griefers at all -- they create an account & get 90 days of griefing until the account is closed by LL (or they're caught and lose the account).

 

No, though I don't mind some additional income for LL if it's done in a way that isn't bad for committed players.  They'll take some extra profit one way or another when they want it and can get it, as with the increased Linden transaction fees, which did hurt, slightly, more committed players.  Committed players wouldn't feel this.  Even those who don't get premium accounts end up paying much more than $5 worth of Lindens (including those who earn that with an in-world job, but still do spend more than that much if even if they never convert it).

But this would harm griefers, as much as possible without ruining gameplay for others testing sl out for free.:  Non-confirmed accounts could be banned from a few griefer-like things like particle effects.  But mostly it would be in the option to ban non-confirmed accounts in any way one chose to.  As a parcel owner I can see myself hitting "ban all non-confirmed accounts from my land."  I could also ban non-confirmed accounts from iming me or even seeing me.  I wouldn't do that for all non-premium accounts, banning the majority of people including many on sl much longer than I've been who are great people, but everyone there 90 days would have paid the $5, so I'd feel fine doing that with newbies who hadn't shown that commitment.  They could even be banned by a user from finding them in a search, if a person was looking to stalk or harass them.  A committed stalker would pay the $5, but a lot of them wouldn't find it worth it.   A lot of sims, etc., would ban from their parcels avatars of accounts people didn't pay the $5 for,  and I have been on a sim where new accounts, whose users I imagine would never have paid $5 for the account, griefed people.

The having paid the $5 would be a credential that shows it is probably not a throwaway account, and it could be used to, if very imperfectly, tell the difference between throwaway accounts and legit ones.  If you admit that it's a non-awful credential of that, then the only case against it would be if a decent number of people who'd otherwise become good community members would refuse to even make the one time $5 payment.  Given how much such people spend, even over their first 90 days, I don't think a one-time $5 fee would deter more than a tiny number of them.

[Alwin Alcott]

28 minutes ago, rasterscan said:

How about *paying* for a 'proper' name instead of Resident as surname ? I would.

you can

[Madison Heartsong]

7 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

you can

How?  I'll do that if it's fairly inexpensive.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

43 minutes ago, Madison531 said:

How?  I'll do that if it's fairly inexpensive.

I think its several hundred real life dollars

[Tari Landar]

1 hour ago, Madison531 said:

 

Actually by law if I missed my rent my landlord would have 10 days before they could even initiate an eviction...but even if they could evict me the first day, I'm saying go ahead and evict me from my land in SL if I were to ever fail to pay the tier fee.  I'd be barred from using my land (what is it on it, I should get something like the same notice and 10 days I'd be entitled to in real life before it was all returned, so if I did pay within the 10 days it would be there where I left it)...but don't evict me from SL.  I might even lose premium status until paid, but could still log on, as if I'd always only had a free account-- as I wouldn't have paid.  The analogy if I couldn't log in at all would be to putting me in jail if I were behind on my rent.

Then it wouldn't even be "pay it late, no consequences" in that case, even though I'm saying not to touch my stuff for 10 days.  I'd fully expect that it wouldn't change my due date and to get my land back without everything thrown back into my inventory I'd be paying for the time I wasn't able to access the land and couldn't use it as part of the payment.

I once had identity theft happen to me, had to cancel my bank account, etc..  For a short time period no payment method would have worked, as I had to change bank accounts and my cards.  I shouldn't be locked out of SL if that happened again.  It's disproportionate, an incentive not to have a premium account and to instead rent, because if I were late on rent to a private SL landlord I'd probably lose access to the rental land, but would at least still be able to log in.

LL doesn't automatically stop you from logging in, there IS a grace period, its 30 days, which pretty much puts it right on the same wavelength as an eviction, in this sense anyway. Not keeping your account up to date and payment info valid doesn't just affect any land you may or may not have through LL, it affects your whole account. This is why they do not allow people that are this far behind to even log in.  You can find it on this page , look under "I'm having trouble paying, what's going to happen" section, down under common issues. People have PLENTY of time to rectify a situation, and LL has no problem with working with folks. Ignoring the fact or waiting until the very last minute to even try to remedy the problem cannot be blame on anyone but the person doing it.  Why would they simply let you log on and keep using their services, or hold onto your stuff on their property while you're in a delinquent status? That doesn't make any sense at all. Also there is nothing stopping a landlord in sl from holding land you're renting from them, and all of the stuff you put on it, until you pay what you owe them, or choosing to return it after whatever grace period it is they have-if any(which is what most do). Sure you could log in sl, they can't control that, but they can hold anything you've rezzed out on that land if they want to, or they can return it, just like LL. 

 

[Madison Heartsong]

Just now, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I think its several hundred real life dollars

Heh, okay...I guess I won't do it then.   I'd have paid $20 or something....

[BilliJo Aldrin]

2 minutes ago, Madison531 said:

Heh, okay...I guess I won't do it then.   I'd have paid $20 or something....

I've found SL wiki pages on it but no mention of costs. I guess if you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Custom_Name_Program

[BilliJo Aldrin]

my bad, here is the cost, from that link above

Upon creation of a custom surname, the account designated as owner will be billed a US$500 setup fee plus the first annual US$500 fee. 

aaaaand, no personal last names allowed, you must be a corporation of some sort. I think its to allow members of your organization to all have the same last name.

So short answer to your question, no its not even possible to buy an individual, personal last name

Edited December 27, 2017 by BilliJo Aldrin
added more info

[Madison Heartsong]

5 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

LL doesn't automatically stop you from logging in, there IS a grace period, its 30 days, which pretty much puts it right on the same wavelength as an eviction, in this sense anyway. Not keeping your account up to date and payment info valid doesn't just affect any land you may or may not have through LL, it affects your whole account. This is why they do not allow people that are this far behind to even log in.  You can find it on this page , look under "I'm having trouble paying, what's going to happen" section, down under common issues. People have PLENTY of time to rectify a situation, and LL has no problem with working with folks. Ignoring the fact or waiting until the very last minute to even try to remedy the problem cannot be blame on anyone but the person doing it.  Why would they simply let you log on and keep using their services, or hold onto your stuff on their property while you're in a delinquent status? That doesn't make any sense at all. Also there is nothing stopping a landlord in sl from holding land you're renting from them, and all of the stuff you put on it, until you pay what you owe them, or choosing to return it after whatever grace period it is they have-if any(which is what most do). Sure you could log in sl, they can't control that, but they can hold anything you've rezzed out on that land if they want to, or they can return it, just like LL. 

 

 

Somewhere what I read suggested that immediately if you're behind in tier fees you're prevented from logging in.  If there's a 30 day grace period, that's much more reasonable.  It's even reasonable if as soon as you fail to make the tier fees you can't access your land.  It just sounded like if I'd had my id theft problem when my tier fees were due, I'd immediately be locked out of my SL account, and it might have taken a week for me to get the payment info back, and all.  But as long as there's a 30 day grace period, during which one can still log in (whether or not one can use the land), it's not so bad.

[Alwin Alcott]

1 hour ago, Madison531 said:

 

  If there's a 30 day grace period, that's much more reasonable.  It's even reasonable if as soon as you fail to make the tier fees you can't access your land.  It just sounded like if I'd had my id theft problem when my tier fees were due, I'd immediately be locked out of my SL account, and it might have taken a week for me to get the payment info back, and all.  But as long as there's a 30 day grace period, during which one can still log in (whether or not one can use the land), it's not so bad.

you'r forgetting you pay afterwards... so you know a month before what you have to pay.

Asking for 30 days grace is absurd... you would be able to sell land where you didn't pay the taxes for yet...

also... IF you had to change your payment info, you have a full month for it before it's really taken.

You are responsible for a active payment method. period.

If you'r not able to do so, put enough funds on Paypal so you can move forward for some months.

Your suggestion has nothing to do with disincentives... it's just a resident not willing to comply to the rules and guidelines.

Edited December 27, 2017 by Alwin Alcott