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Adams Scarmon

The hate on child avatars?

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10 hours ago, Hintswen Guardian said:

Odd... I've been a Child Av for years and never had a problem with people saying I'm not allowed somewhere just because I am a child. I usually stick to Parcel_lght_G.png/Parcel_lght_M.png sims and visit Parcel_lght_A.png sims on the very odd occasion (normally when either no one or not many people are around and only for a few minutes). The only time I was ever asked to leave somewhere was when I was fishing in an Parcel_lght_A.png sim (didn't notice it was adult at the time). I was sent an IM by the owner saying something along the lines of "This is an adult sim and contains content not suitable for a child avatar, could you please change to an adult avatar or leave the region." and I switched to something else for a bit then left and switched back. Sure I was only staying on the beach where none of that stuff was but the owner was nice about it and it was my own fault for not paying attention to the rating.

In Parcel_lght_M.png sims with adult content I've never been asked to leave, but that could be because I stay away from anything obviously adult in nature and I don't act childish to everyone and make childish noises constantly. The only hostility I have ever had with someone due to my avatar is a certain real-estate agent that hates child avatars, but he goes around calling everyone clueless gits anyway so I don't think his opinion counts.

thank you :)

You're a good kid then. And you are also living evidence that not all child avies are nasty people or entitled.

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4 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

The beauty of second life is that you can ban anyone from your property for whatever reason you chose.

If only real life was like that.

*grins*

The Beauty of SL is that you can be whoever or whatever you want to be, for whatever reason you chose.

If only real life was like that.. right?

*grins*

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Also i think people look into this way too much maybe.

Second Life is OUR world. We can shape it the way we see fit and we have the chance to create a society thats welcoming and not toxic and excluding people just because of who they are.

 

I think with common sense, cutting people slack and minding your own business we can all achieve a great deal already right?

Enough with the hate really. I get it.. some hate child avies, some hate furries, some hate guys with pussies, some hate avies in wheelchairs.

But lets step over that hatred and leave it for RL. On here.. when you login, you should be pleasant, non judgemental and use your common sense. It will help a great deal.

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2 minutes ago, Adams Scarmon said:

Also i think people look into this way too much maybe.

Second Life is OUR world. We can shape it the way we see fit and we have the chance to create a society thats welcoming and not toxic and excluding people just because of who they are.

 

I think with common sense, cutting people slack and minding your own business we can all achieve a great deal already right?

Enough with the hate really. I get it.. some hate child avies, some hate furries, some hate guys with pussies, some hate avies in wheelchairs.

But lets step over that hatred and leave it for RL. On here.. when you login, you should be pleasant, non judgemental and use your common sense. It will help a great deal.

You created the inflammitory tone of this thread with your use of the word "hate".

 I doubt many people hate any of the avis you described, but you set the topic, we just responded to it.

Believe it or not, second life really is a mirror of real life. Its not some "lets all hug and play nice" paradise. 

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14 minutes ago, Adams Scarmon said:

Enough with the hate really. I get it.. some hate child avies, some hate furries, some hate guys with pussies, some hate avies in wheelchairs.

Only one of those groups regularly invade A-Rated places they don't belong in and in which they are NOT welcome with the intention of disrupting the SL of the regulars there...

We're not going to "just get along if we all hug each other", especially as hugging a "Kreepy Kid AR Clickbait Walking ToS Violation" is exactly what the little ****ers want when they come to our A-Rated havens, thats WHY they come, to DESTROY our way of SL, and it's why we meet their invasions on the beaches as they swarm out of their landing craft, with BANHAMMERS, and always will.
 

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If I had a PG sim i'd allow them, mature/adult sim I would definitely not allow child avi's.

Personally I have never understood why a grown man or woman would want to be a baby/young child.

I can maybe understand wanting to reminisce you're youth so you create a 18+ younger version of yourself but a child...no offence to anyone but sorry I just think it's wrong.

I have more of an acquaintance I run into every now and again who plays quite a young almost baby aged female child and does all the child talk that goes with it. Every time I see them I feel like flying all the way from Australia to Alaska and slapping him stupid while yelling 'YOU ARE A GROWN MAN!!!'

Edited by Vin Soulstar
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Guys lets be clear on this one thing before we continue.

We all agree that child avatars on Adult rated sims are a violation. Thats not what this is about.

 

Its about the G-Rated and M-rated sims where sometimes a child avatar is greeted with aggression and suspicion.

This is something we CAN change though. What happened to ''dont judge a book by its cover'' ?

 

All I am saying is not to jump to conclusions and generalize. Keep an open mind and respect people's personal preferences. I dont like furries but I am not going to ban them from my store just because of that...

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3 minutes ago, Adams Scarmon said:

Guys lets be clear on this one thing before we continue.

We all agree that child avatars on Adult rated sims are a violation. Thats not what this is about.

 

Its about the G-Rated and M-rated sims where sometimes a child avatar is greeted with aggression and suspicion.

This is something we CAN change though. What happened to ''dont judge a book by its cover'' ?

 

All I am saying is not to jump to conclusions and generalize. Keep an open mind and respect people's personal preferences. I dont like furries but I am not going to ban them from my store just because of that...

Child avatars on Adult sims are not a violation, that's already been established both in here and in the LL TOS

But, property owners have the absolute right to exclude any individual or type of individual they wish, regardless of if its G, M or A

Why ban kids? Because we can.

I don't hang around with strange kids in RL. Why would I want to do it in SL?

Why would anyone want to?

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30 minutes ago, Adams Scarmon said:

I dont like furries but I am not going to ban them from my store just because of that...

Furries aren't usually children though at least not the ones I come across.

At the end of the day if you want to transform yourself into a child avi and roleplay as one then you shouldn't be allowed on adult sims.

Just like any decent mother or father wouldn't take their child to those 'other' toy stores or strip clubs.

Edited by Vin Soulstar

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42 minutes ago, Adams Scarmon said:

All I am saying is not to jump to conclusions and generalize. Keep an open mind and respect people's personal preferences. I dont like furries but I am not going to ban them from my store just because of that...

But, you did exactly that by assuming people who dislike certain things, automatically *hate them. I don't know about others, but my dislike for the way some people act, is not hatred, it is dislike. Hate is a pretty strong word, I'm not keen on throwing it around willy nilly. I may dislike, and at times even seemingly *hate the actions, words, opinions, etc... of others. But that doesn't mean I *hate* them,as people, or avs..or...whatever. 

That is where I believe your whole idea of "stop hating on things you dislike, you shouldn't ban just for that reason" goes all askew. I absolutely *hate* seeing people on leashes...I don't hate the people, I hate what they're doing. I don't *have to tolerate it, I can hate it all I want, I can even disallow it on my land, I will, and I do. I don't actually have to justify why I hate it, to anyone, including those doing it. It is *my preference, and, as per your own words there....you should be keeping an open mind about others' preferences too. 

I also hate seafood-in rl(though I'm certain my av would too, in sl) and would never go somewhere that predominantly serves seafood. I don't hate people that eat it...I hate the food ;) Am I being intolerant of seafood eaters?  Nah, not even close. My likes, my dislikes, my loves, even my hates...all *my* preferences. I'm not being intolerant by having them, or even at times when I may act slightly different towards people while they're participating in something I dislike..that still doesn't mean I am intolerant of them as people. It's entirely possible to draw a line of distinction between person and act/words etc..and feel differently towards both. It doesn't automatically equate with intolerance...much less "hate"(as described here, though I think that words is misplaced in this context, a lot) 

 

Edited by Tari Landar
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1 hour ago, Adams Scarmon said:

We all agree that child avatars on Adult rated sims are a violation.

This has already been said, but I want to repeat it to make it absolutely clear. Child avatars ARE allowed in adult sims. It's not a violation of any of LL's rules.

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57 minutes ago, Vin Soulstar said:

No intolerant to those poor seafood. :P

On that... I agree lmao.

Actually, I like sea creatures..when they're alive :D But, I also cook seafood for my kids, I just can't stand eating it myself. 

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3 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

This has already been said, but I want to repeat it to make it absolutely clear. Child avatars ARE allowed in adult sims. It's not a violation of any of LL's rules.

You know, maybe that should be changed, Maybe child avatars should be banned from any adult region. Adult regions are adult, children don't belong anywhere on them.

If children want to go to adult regions, let them go as adults.

That way,  instead of children going to adult regions and getting sim owners in trouble, anyone could AR any child found on an adult sim and get the child in trouble.

That would end the problem real fast.

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Well I also dislike some things in SL , just like anyone.

But I am not going to deny them their right to be who they want to be. And I sure as peep am not going to be JUDGING them. Who am I to judge someone that wants to play as a child avatar? That wants to have someone else on a leash? Its none of *my* business tbh... Now ofcourse i dont have to *like* them.

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1 hour ago, Adams Scarmon said:

And I sure as peep am not going to be JUDGING them

That's a wonderful sentiment, and hypocritically inane because...

1 hour ago, Adams Scarmon said:

Now ofcourse i dont have to *like* them

..the moment you decide if you like or dislike something you have JUDGED it...

You judged all of us right from the get-go in your purile OP...

Why do we inferior beings 'hate' on your kreepy-kid friends, why cant we be superior non-judgemental hug the world types like you, etc.

And all through this you've pursued that "be like me and hug the world", and completely ignored the answers people have given you for their very real reasons for wanting to boot your kreepy-kid friends off places they shouldn't be, and for having no tolerance for Apologists, like you.

1 hour ago, Adams Scarmon said:

Who am I to judge someone that wants to

...keep Kreepy-kid AR clickbait avatars off their sims... Who are you indeed, to judge us for not pandering to you or your inconsiderate kreepy-kid friends, or their desire to disrupt our SecondLives, and yes they are all walking ToS violations because it's a violation to willfully disrupt others SecondLives... Which they do the MOMENT they set foot off a G-Rated sim.

Dress like an 8 yr old, act like an 8 yr old, get treated like an 8 yr old. Sorry kid no grownup grid for you, back to the school-gulag grid with the other juvies...



 

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1 hour ago, Adams Scarmon said:

Well I also dislike some things in SL , just like anyone.

But I am not going to deny them their right to be who they want to be. And I sure as peep am not going to be JUDGING them. Who am I to judge someone that wants to play as a child avatar? That wants to have someone else on a leash? Its none of *my* business tbh... Now ofcourse i dont have to *like* them.

No one is "denying" anyone any "right to be what they want", lol. This whole vigilante justice for kid avs across the grid, isn't going to go very far. If you want people to be tolerant of others' preference...you need to be tolerant of others' preference NOT to be around(or allow on land *they* pay for) certain things. 

I don't give a rat's left nut how you, or anyone else, feel about folks on leashes. If I actually cared, I'd open a discussion about how folks feel. But, I don't do that...because I don't want to know, lol. I *hate* the act, I *hate* seeing it, so I use the tools at my disposal to avoid it when/where I can. Simple as that, lol. I'm not stopping others from doing it, loads of folks do...more power to them. The same applies to pretty much any kind of av, kid, adult, teen, furry, robot, alien, animal..whatever...

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Myself,I don't have a problem with anyone doing what they want or being whatever they want to be in SL,as long as it's within the rules..

I'm a big believer in,Your world your imagination..

I can turn my avatar into pretty much anything I want and be that in here.. I can buy land and create any world I want and live it out even farther..

I figure,I really have no place to give anyone else crap for being what kind of avatar they want to be in their world..I also can't give anyone crap for buying land and making their own world the way they want and allowing only certain avatars in there..

All of that is really none of my business until we are standing on my section of the grid..

Outside of my land,I enjoy seeing all the different kinds of worlds people have created and avatars they have made..

I don't come here to place a person behind the avatar..For me it's a place where I like to take people at face value because most times that's what they are looking for..otherwise it starts feeling like I'm in just some sort of chatroom..

I'm not trying to be all self righteous or anything like that..I know I've had my moments,but try to keep myself in check as I grow..

I just know what it feels like to walk in those kind of shoes and just don't feel right putting them on someone else..

I'll respect someone until they give a reason not too..That's pretty much all I'm saying I guess..

What others do, Well,it's their world their imagination..I'm not gonna pry.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Tari Landar said:

No one is "denying" anyone any "right to be what they want", lol. This whole vigilante justice for kid avs across the grid, isn't going to go very far. If you want people to be tolerant of others' preference...you need to be tolerant of others' preference NOT to be around(or allow on land *they* pay for) certain things. 

I don't give a rat's left nut how you, or anyone else, feel about folks on leashes. If I actually cared, I'd open a discussion about how folks feel. But, I don't do that...because I don't want to know, lol. I *hate* the act, I *hate* seeing it, so I use the tools at my disposal to avoid it when/where I can. Simple as that, lol. I'm not stopping others from doing it, loads of folks do...more power to them. The same applies to pretty much any kind of av, kid, adult, teen, furry, robot, alien, animal..whatever...

This whole thing revolves around tolerance vs acceptance. For the longest time we have been told we must tolerate people that are different from us, different for whatever reason, age, race, religion, body mass, sexual orientation or any other thing that makes them different from us. They have a right to live as they wish so we must tolerate that right. I agree 100%.

However now that hurtle has been crossed, tolerance is now no longer enough. We must show acceptance no matter how much they may disgust us for whatever reason, right or wrong.  Its no longer enough that these people are no longer actively discriminated against, they must be welcomed into our homes and our families and shown the same love that we show our own.

This is madness, and this is the state of the world today.

Edited by BilliJo Aldrin
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True story. Once a few years ago  I was doing my doing my weekly laundry run at the local laundromat. When I entered there was an interracial couple (he was black, she was white) and a man dressed as a woman (transvestite, transsexual, I dunno, I didn't ask).

As soon as the man gathered up his stuff and left she said to me "did you see that guy, he's so disgusting"

All I could think was, oh you stupid b***h, not so long ago people would have looked at you and said, "oh look at her with a black man, she's so disgusting".

I tolerate everyone, even total idiots.

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2 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I tolerate everyone, even total idiots.

So it's safe for me to say, "Hi", then :D

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3 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

True story. Once a few years ago  I was doing my doing my weekly laundry run at the local laundromat. When I entered there was an interracial couple (he was black, she was white) and a man dressed as a woman (transvestite, transsexual, I dunno, I didn't ask).

As soon as the man gathered up his stuff and left she said to me "did you see that guy, he's so disgusting"

All I could think was, oh you stupid b***h, not so long ago people would have looked at you and said, "oh look at her with a black man, she's so disgusting".

I tolerate everyone, even total idiots.

Yes, quite often those that scream about tolerance are the least tolerant of all

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18 hours ago, Adams Scarmon said:

All I am saying is not to jump to conclusions and generalize.

Like this, you mean?

[16:03] [kid avatar name redacted] whispers: ah he's gay, ok, that explains
[16:04] [kid avatar name redacted] whispers: I think he's a pedophile

(Except, of course, he didn't whisper that about me. He said it out loud in a very busy SL store with a lot of people around.)

That kind of 'not jumping to conclusions and generalising'? Is that what you mean?

Because that up there - which happened way back in 2012 (and yes, there are screenshots; I took them to back up my abuse report) - is the exact reason why I now avoid child avatars wherever possible. One bad apple rotted the entire barrel for me.

I received an IM a few minutes after I'd teleported out, from a friend of that kid avatar, telling me the kid was "just joking" and "didn't want to offend" me.

Here's a life lesson: If you don't want to offend people, don't 'joke' that they're a paedophile.

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On 12/2/2017 at 8:26 AM, Cindy Evanier said:

Of course but a child would be excluded from a strip club in RL so why do the child avi's cry discrimination when they get excluded from them in SL.  The safe community is in the G rated sims 

Not all kids want a "safe" community because not all kids are babies. There is a whole world of child avatars who don't wear diapers, and there is a whole world of places in SL that are ok with that. In fact, most schools and family communities are in M rated sims so that play doesn't look like a perfect episode of Full House.

On 12/3/2017 at 6:24 AM, Vin Soulstar said:

Personally I have never understood why a grown man or woman would want to be a baby/young child.

...

I have more of an acquaintance I run into every now and again who plays quite a young almost baby aged female child and does all the child talk that goes with it. Every time I see them I feel like flying all the way from Australia to Alaska and slapping him stupid while yelling 'YOU ARE A GROWN MAN!!!'

I've never understood why people want to by cyber-raped in fake sex dungeons. I don't judge them too harshly. I chose to play a kid because I felt like it opened a lot more doors for me. I don't play SL to have cybersex, so I made someone that doesn't do that.

 

Something I want to put out there that seems to be getting missed here.

1. I play a child avatar, but that doesn't mean I play a baby. I don't wear diapers or use a pacifier. I don't speak in baby (that is annoying to everyone, even other kids). I play an 11 year old because I wanted to be old enough to be able to do things on my own, while still being young enough to be a kid.

2. I'm not here for cyber. If I teleport into an adult sim, I am wary of it and look around for rules or offending content. If I see sex shops, Gor, BDSM, or the like, I leave. If a kid does show up in your sim, just tell them that it's not appropriate to be there. Maybe they had an old landmark. Maybe they didn't know there was adult content. Give me courtesy and treat me like a person instead of just booting me.

3. I am here to roleplay, and that means more than staying in a safe family sim. I want to play in fantasy sims. I like cyberpunk. I want to play in a horror scenario. If there actually is sexual content, see point 2. If there isn't, I just wanted to be treated as a person. Again. I don't play a baby. Older kid avatars can participate in more mature (but not sexual) roleplay, and many kids want to do so.

4. Read the ToS. 90% of the bull***** I hear that isn't people complaining about babies is people saying this or that is against the ToS. It isn't. The only thing that talks about no kids is sex. It doesn't say anything about violence. It doesn't say anything about foul language. It doesn't say anything about non-sexual adult scenes. If I want to play a runaway or an old west kid who grabbed Pa's gun, that's not off the table, and I shouldn't feel like a monster for doing it.

5. Is there an adult community? Do you have meetings and keep minutes? Is there a president of the adult community? No, and there isn't one in the "kid community" either because there isn't a kid community. There are communities of kids, but there is no cohesive group that represents all child avatars. We don't police kids because that's not our job. We don't train kids because we don't know them. I would love to coach more child avatars on how to play better, but no other "community" does that because it's impractical.

6. When you want to ban or discriminate against child avatars, replace "child" with "blacks" or another type of person and see how you feel about it. If it sounds discriminatory, it probably is. If you don't want kids in your house, fine. But if you are making a public space that doesn't have sexually offending content, I would like there to be a consideration for making it open rather than just having a blanket and reasonless ban.

7. I mentioned it above, but please treat me like a person. I'm not the one kid you met who was annoying. I'm respectful and lighthearted, but I'm also played by an adult who wants to have a discussion about SL and wants to find ways to get the most out of it. Give me a chance to show you that I'm not a baby talking toddler or a troll before you ban me. If I ask for a reason, it's because I want kids to be more accepted and want people to challenge themselves, not because I want to be a brat and say you are trampling on my rights.

I agree that creeps and idiots give the rest of us child avatars a bad name, but let's stop pretending that creeps and idiots only play child avatars. There are plenty of creep and idiot furries, adults, robots, and houseplants in SL, so let's treat them for what they are (creeps and idiots) instead of scapegoating what they look like.

Edited by HarrisonMcKenzie
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2 hours ago, HarrisonMcKenzie said:

Not all kids want a "safe" community because not all kids are babies. There is a whole world of child avatars who don't wear diapers, and there is a whole world of places in SL that are ok with that. In fact, most schools and family communities are in M rated sims so that play doesn't look like a perfect episode of Full House.

I've never understood why people want to by cyber-raped in fake sex dungeons. I don't judge them too harshly. I chose to play a kid because I felt like it opened a lot more doors for me. I don't play SL to have cybersex, so I made someone that doesn't do that.

 

Something I want to put out there that seems to be getting missed here.

1. I play a child avatar, but that doesn't mean I play a baby. I don't wear diapers or use a pacifier. I don't speak in baby (that is annoying to everyone, even other kids). I play an 11 year old because I wanted to be old enough to be able to do things on my own, while still being young enough to be a kid.

2. I'm not here for cyber. If I teleport into an adult sim, I am wary of it and look around for rules or offending content. If I see sex shops, Gor, BDSM, or the like, I leave. If a kid does show up in your sim, just tell them that it's not appropriate to be there. Maybe they had an old landmark. Maybe they didn't know there was adult content. Give me courtesy and treat me like a person instead of just booting me.

3. I am here to roleplay, and that means more than staying in a safe family sim. I want to play in fantasy sims. I like cyberpunk. I want to play in a horror scenario. If there actually is sexual content, see point 2. If there isn't, I just wanted to be treated as a person. Again. I don't play a baby. Older kid avatars can participate in more mature (but not sexual) roleplay, and many kids want to do so.

4. Read the ToS. 90% of the bull***** I hear that isn't people complaining about babies is people saying this or that is against the ToS. It isn't. The only thing that talks about no kids is sex. It doesn't say anything about violence. It doesn't say anything about foul language. It doesn't say anything about non-sexual adult scenes. If I want to play a runaway or an old west kid who grabbed Pa's gun, that's not off the table, and I shouldn't feel like a monster for doing it.

5. Is there an adult community? Do you have meetings and keep minutes? Is there a president of the adult community? No, and there isn't one in the "kid community" either because there isn't a kid community. There are communities of kids, but there is no cohesive group that represents all child avatars. We don't police kids because that's not our job. We don't train kids because we don't know them. I would love to coach more child avatars on how to play better, but no other "community" does that because it's impractical.

6. When you want to ban or discriminate against child avatars, replace "child" with "blacks" or another type of person and see how you feel about it. If it sounds discriminatory, it probably is. If you don't want kids in your house, fine. But if you are making a public space that doesn't have sexually offending content, I would like there to be a consideration for making it open rather than just having a blanket and reasonless ban.

7. I mentioned it above, but please treat me like a person. I'm not the one kid you met who was annoying. I'm respectful and lighthearted, but I'm also played by an adult who wants to have a discussion about SL and wants to find ways to get the most out of it. Give me a chance to show you that I'm not a baby talking toddler or a troll before you ban me. If I ask for a reason, it's because I want kids to be more accepted and want people to challenge themselves, not because I want to be a brat and say you are trampling on my rights.

I agree that creeps and idiots give the rest of us child avatars a bad name, but let's stop pretending that creeps and idiots only play child avatars. There are plenty of creep and idiot furries, adults, robots, and houseplants in SL, so let's treat them for what they are (creeps and idiots) instead of scapegoating what they look like.

I don't have anything against child avi's however I do not wish to be around them, I suspect that goes for a lot of people. If a sim has child avi's on it on a regular basis I simply stop going there. It is a situation I personally don't feel comfortable with because it constrains what I feel I can say, how I act, what I wear. As you say child avi's are played by adults. Just because it is their rp I don't see why I should be told when on a sim where there is a child avi that I can't say that, do that, wear that. Your chosen existence in SL is affecting my chosen existence simple as that.

Therefore sim owners have to decide do they cater for the handful of child avi's that want to visit or do they cater for the larger number of people who prefer to not be exposed to the censorship of their sl experience. That is why sims ban you

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