Millennials & Land Costs?

[Lux Voxel]

First and foremost this doesn't necessarily apply to only Millennials; It makes for excellent click bait does it not?

I have been on second life for almost 6 years and have fallen in love with its community and the ability to make ideas come to reality for myself and others to enjoy. Renting has been troublesome and it can be hard to trust other land owners with maintaining the sim. I used to rent a full commercial sim during my first year of college. Talk about skipping a few meals :P, but to me it was well worth being able to express my creativity, but yes expensive to where the average college student couldn't even come close to covering those costs without selling his or her liver to the mafia.

Now I am looking for a full region for myself in 2017; yet all I am looking at is a solid car payment monthly for virtual land. It raises a lot of questions as how much does it cost Linden Labs to support a virtual sim? I doubt it costs them a high fee a month to maintain the sim, so where does this $295 a month fee come from? I am 25 years old and not in a place in my life to spend a car payment on a virtual world. Is this why I'm hearing about creators and players leaving the world? Any information would be useful. I love second life but after finding out the land prices are this high, I want to know the end game here.

Peace and love, Patrick.

[SAULGOODiE]

I think the price tag accounts for a few different things, certainly not just the cost to maintain a sim, unfortunately. 

A full-sim is a large commitment for most of the SL population, and LL wants to keep it this way. If anyone and everyone could get a sim and throw around whatever they wanted, it would become increasingly difficult to find quality locations and projects. Just like most subscription based services, SL offers different levels of investment depending on what you want, anything between non-premium residents renting 512 lots to Land Barons owning multiple full-sims. With many different tiers in between, it really lets you fine-tune what you are paying for in relation to how much you are creating!

But in all seriousness, if you had 2 or 3 trustworthy friends you could all split a Homestead region relatively cheaply. Also, it might not be much, but whatever you are using the sim for should be designed to be profitable one way or another, whether goods or services are being sold or events being held. A full sim is a HELL of a lot of prims anyway, i guess if you are operating a full commercial sim you might be limited to the prims you can personally use, but the tradeoff of having traffic and renters would balance it?

Anyways, I understand your struggle, but at the end of the day there are ways we can express our creativity for much cheaper or even free! (Blender, anyone? Beta Grid,anyone?) but the Second Life grid gives us a tangible place to display it for anyone to enjoy, and that in itself warrants a price tag. Whether you think its worth the price tag is up to you entirely  

[Lux Voxel]

11 minutes ago, SAULGOODiE said:

I think the price tag accounts for a few different things, certainly not just the cost to maintain a sim, unfortunately. 

A full-sim is a large commitment for most of the SL population, and LL wants to keep it this way. If anyone and everyone could get a sim and throw around whatever they wanted, it would become increasingly difficult to find quality locations and projects. Just like most subscription based services, SL offers different levels of investment depending on what you want, anything between non-premium residents renting 512 lots to Land Barons owning multiple full-sims. With many different tiers in between, it really lets you fine-tune what you are paying for in relation to how much you are creating!

But in all seriousness, if you had 2 or 3 trustworthy friends you could all split a Homestead region relatively cheaply. Also, it might not be much, but whatever you are using the sim for should be designed to be profitable one way or another, whether goods or services are being sold or events being held. A full sim is a HELL of a lot of prims anyway, i guess if you are operating a full commercial sim you might be limited to the prims you can personally use, but the tradeoff of having traffic and renters would balance it?

Anyways, I understand your struggle, but at the end of the day there are ways we can express our creativity for much cheaper or even free! (Blender, anyone? Beta Grid,anyone?) but the Second Life grid gives us a tangible place to display it for anyone to enjoy, and that in itself warrants a price tag. Whether you think its worth the price tag is up to you entirely  

This is all very useful Saulgoodie, thanks for the reply and information! You have some very good reasons written down for them to keep the prices up there like that. I still have a lot to learn about the Beta grid, do people play and shop on the beta grid or any of the other grids? I have used the Beta grid for uploading here and there. My texture uploading in game costs me an arm and a leg. It would be nice to know why I'm fined for uploading textures in world.

I want to be able to sell products in world, would a homestead sim allow me to sell products in world? I know a commercial sim allows for a larger amount of people/prims on the sim at once. Homestead possibly reduces that number in half for both I'm assuming. 

Thanks again for the information I greatly appreciate it.

[SAULGOODiE]

Just now, Haggerty said:

This is all very useful Saulgoodie, thanks for the reply and information! You have some very good reasons written down for them to keep the prices up there like that. I still have a lot to learn about the Beta grid, do people play and shop on the beta grid or any of the other grids? I have used the Beta grid for uploading here and there. My texture uploading in game costs me an arm and a leg. It would be nice to know why I'm fined for uploading textures in world.

I want to be able to sell products in world, would a homestead sim allow me to sell products in world? I know a commercial sim allows for a larger amount of people/prims on the sim at once. Homestead possibly reduces that number in half for both I'm assuming. 

Thanks again for the information I greatly appreciate it.

My pleasure buddy!

You should DEFINITELY look into the Beta Grid/Preview Grid. No one shopping over there, it's just for testing uploads essentially. Here's a page with some details  You can use it to upload and test things like Mesh without any cost. There are also some Marketplace test features, but keep in mind you cannot transfer anything from the Beta grid into the Main Grid without paying up lol. 

And yes you are correct in your assumptions about Homestead Regions; They have both less Prims and a lower Max for people on sim. It's a toss-up, for sure, but getting more than 20 people on a sim at a time isn't always a easy task  It's definitely not a good choice for things like Clubs, but for a solo business I could imagine it would be alright for a mainstore...

 

[Lux Voxel]

Ill have to get used to uploading in the beta grid, although it would limit the people I could talk to in the second life grid. If I were a developer I would have changed this up entirely. Give creators an option to enter a mode while in the second life grid, its only 2017 you would think that would have been done by now. I agree with the fact that a homestead should be enough for a mainstore aswell.

So the follow up questions would be: Do homesteads allow for commercial type use? Are some homesteads grandfathered? The maintenance fee for a commercial sim is 295$, grandfathered its 195$. Homestead I'm guessing is now 195$ and back in the day grandfathered 95$?

I do see homesteads offer around 5000 prims If I'm correct. Which I understand is enough for some. But that limit scares me a tad for a full sim.

 

[Klytyna]

24 minutes ago, Haggerty said:

I do see homesteads offer around 5000 prims If I'm correct. Which I understand is enough for some. But that limit scares me a tad for a full sim.

Homestead sims are NOT "full sims", they are a 1/4 sims worth of prims on a full sims worth of digital dirt, and generally a poor investment for any business.

You can RENT a 1/4 of a full sim (5000 prims) for 4500 L$ a week or less if you shop around, from reputable estate firms, often, if you need more prims for a store or more area, you may be able to rent additional land on the same sim adjacent to your 1/4, say 3/8 of a sim or a 1/2 sim in total with a commensurate increase in your prim limits.

Homesteads rent for closer to 7500 L$ a week (you might get lucky and find them for as little as 6500-7000, maybe), and theres no expansion options at all.

Homesteads are intended for wealthy homeowners who hate having neighbours...

 

[Lux Voxel]

I can see how renting is a big deal here for business owners or at least start ups. It is a gamble but part of the second world we live in  When the day comes someone tosses me a couple million I will be seeing my own commercial sim. Until then I will pray for that day to come!

Thanks for the kind post and time spent.

[Chic Aeon]

Also note that The Lab has mentioned in recent official blog posts that there will be changes in the land use costs (or perhaps new ways to pay or buy or use land -- who knows?) coming along "soon". We don't know what SOON is of course

 

[Lux Voxel]

11 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

Also note that The Lab has mentioned in recent official blog posts that there will be changes in the land use costs (or perhaps new ways to pay or buy or use land -- who knows?) coming along "soon". We don't know what SOON is of course

 

Do we have any idea what this will change or bring to the table? Thanks for commenting!

[Chic Aeon]

1 hour ago, Haggerty said:

Do we have any idea what this will change or bring to the table? Thanks for commenting!

Nope.

 

[Lux Voxel]

29 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

Nope.

 

Lets cross our fingers for something cool.

[LittleMe Jewell]

14 hours ago, Haggerty said:

I love second life but after finding out the land prices are this high, I want to know the end game here.

 

Thought I'd toss this in -- there is no 'end game', per se.  SL is simply whatever you wish to make of it.

[Cindy Evanier]

2 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Thought I'd toss this in -- there is no 'end game', per se.  SL is simply whatever you wish to make of it.

Wait!  I have been here for almost 9 years and I am not going to get a prize at the end? 

[Parhelion Palou]

13 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

Also note that The Lab has mentioned in recent official blog posts that there will be changes in the land use costs (or perhaps new ways to pay or buy or use land -- who knows?) coming along "soon". We don't know what SOON is of course

 

LL said that moving SL to the cloud could allow them to offer new/different ways to have land. (Paraphrased) The statement was vague. It's likely to be a few years before they can move SL to the cloud, so I wouldn't worry about it yet.

[Lux Voxel]

1 hour ago, Parhelion Palou said:

LL said that moving SL to the cloud could allow them to offer new/different ways to have land. (Paraphrased) The statement was vague. It's likely to be a few years before they can move SL to the cloud, so I wouldn't worry about it yet.

True, Ill keep my eyes open for news about the changes coming up. Thanks for your comment!

[Lux Voxel]

3 hours ago, Cindy Evanier said:

Wait!  I have been here for almost 9 years and I am not going to get a prize at the end? 

Nice comment thanks for your contribution. 

[Chic Aeon]

I agree that the statement is vague :D.   But as I understand it textures have moved "to the cloud" already.  Of course things change along the way so who knows what will actually happen. I wouldn't put my SL life on hold waiting any more than I "waited" to buy a mesh body after Sansar was announced  . 

Here is the original quote from the official blog post :

[Lux Voxel]

37 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

I agree that the statement is vague :D.   But as I understand it textures have moved "to the cloud" already.  Of course things change along the way so who knows what will actually happen. I wouldn't put my SL life on hold waiting any more than I "waited" to buy a mesh body after Sansar was announced  . 

Here is the original quote from the official blog post :

Awesome, ill keep an eye out for any other information they release. It would be interesting to see where they go with this.

Thanks!

[bigmoe Whitfield]

hoping since they might be moving away from a mere physical presence in lots of areas with their hardware that that this will make it a little cheaper to have and.  have had sim since 09 and hoping they offer another buy down,  that 100 buck saving was nice to do.

[Bitsy Buccaneer]

On 11/29/2017 at 12:26 AM, Haggerty said:

My texture uploading in game costs me an arm and a leg. It would be nice to know why I'm fined for uploading textures in world.

Just to make sure, you do know about the Local Textures option for main grid testing, right?

I don't mind paying the small fee for adding things to the database permanently.

[Lux Voxel]

10 hours ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

Just to make sure, you do know about the Local Textures option for main grid testing, right?

I don't mind paying the small fee for adding things to the database permanently.

Thanks for your reply!

Yes with models in game, they do give me the option to local texture. For applying tattoos and other misc things it requires me to upload. It is a small fee but I'm seeing a lot of small fees in a lot of areas that don't help creators. I can understand taking a chunk of sales on marketplace, it is justified. But that is besides my point. I'm lacking to see LL encouraging creators in game, or promoting the influence of new creations. I'm sure in upcoming years this will change.

[LittleMe Jewell]

2 minutes ago, Haggerty said:

  I'm lacking to see LL encouraging creators in game, or promoting the influence of new creations. I'm sure in upcoming years this will change.

Hmm, well I wouldn't necessarily bet on that. 

[Chic Aeon]

3 hours ago, Haggerty said:

Yes with models in game, they do give me the option to local texture. For applying tattoos and other misc things it requires me to upload. It is a small fee but I'm seeing a lot of small fees in a lot of areas that don't help creators. I can understand taking a chunk of sales on marketplace, it is justified. But that is besides my point. I'm lacking to see LL encouraging creators in game, or promoting the influence of new creations. I'm sure in upcoming years this will change.

The beta grid is your friend. My alt who hasn't been there but a year I guess has gone through 40,000 lindens or so (they are free there) and that is REAL MONEY LOL.

 

Also, back to the OP.  The latest official comments from Linden Lab suggest that they are moving to an on-demand sim option (at least for some areas -- I don't see how this would work on contiguous mainland).   Much like Kitely in Opensim, you land would start up when needed and go offline when not. I don't love this method (I was in Kitely for some time) so it is unlikely that would be my land choice -- especially with a business. But for some folks it would be just fine and if the savings was substantial then a likely welcomed alternative. 

[Parhelion Palou]

1 hour ago, Chic Aeon said:

The beta grid is your friend. My alt who hasn't been there but a year I guess has gone through 40,000 lindens or so (they are free there) and that is REAL MONEY LOL.

 

Also, back to the OP.  The latest official comments from Linden Lab suggest that they are moving to an on-demand sim option (at least for some areas -- I don't see how this would work on contiguous mainland).   Much like Kitely in Opensim, you land would start up when needed and go offline when not. I don't love this method (I was in Kitely for some time) so it is unlikely that would be my land choice -- especially with a business. But for some folks it would be just fine and if the savings was substantial then a likely welcomed alternative. 

Oz Linden replied today in the SL moving to the cloud thread. He said their immediate goal is to get SL running in the cloud exactly as SL runs now. All regions running all the time. They've thought about adding other options, but it's all internal discussions and nothing has been decided.

[Chic Aeon]

3 hours ago, Parhelion Palou said:

Oz Linden replied today in the SL moving to the cloud thread. He said their immediate goal is to get SL running in the cloud exactly as SL runs now. All regions running all the time. They've thought about adding other options, but it's all internal discussions and nothing has been decided.

:D. Obviously there are differing thoughts on this which is pretty confusing since "official" really should mean OFFICIAL :D. Oh well.