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Why Isn't There a Combat Section in the Forums?


Parx Oran
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On 11/24/2017 at 7:02 PM, Tari Landar said:

I still fail to see why calling combat in sl a form of RP, is such a bad thing. You seem to come across as if it's insulting to even suggest such. You might want to actually talk to more folks in combat sims, because I don't believe most folks share your same sentiment about it not being roleplay in any way.  I don't, and when I participate, I will call it RP , because that is what it is to me, and probably way more folks than you think ;) 

 

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You seem to call it insulting

       *I can see how that can be insinuated, however, 'insulting' is the wrong word. 'Inefficient' is the correct one. Yes we could allow every tom, dick, and harry to come in and roleplay after they get through our initiative training. But that would make the group much slower in combat, could cause all sorts of drama issues (has in the past, ask me for examples in IMs cuz they are long stories) but more importantly it would separate factions into two separate groups; RP/Non-RP. it's not healthy for the morale of a group to have cliques within it (again if you want examples, I've got countless)*

*as for individuals who don't RP, but do combat. Here's only a small portion of active members i have access to look at. 1f74ba70d658c4cf6aeb7f0be03080c9.gif

Pay attention here because this is where I show you how massive the non-rp combat community is.

This here is project genesis, a group created in a futile attempt at administrating the SLMC. a good 2/3rds of the people in the SLMC don't agree with its policies and aren't in the group out of protest. The missing 2/3rds can be found in a group called "The Fray" which has been the main group for SLMC 'sh*tposting' since 2011. 

Image provided by Darksleepur <3

e5619d7171fca3185ddf97db68d85c99.gif

As you can see it is much larger. This is also just a portion of active SLMC activity. The rest can be found in SLMN. Of course, these groups have some spillover and people are in both (Much less so for the fray-genesis since they are more or less a political stance directly against each other)

783797266e17fed494937dcb882f71e8.gif

This group was made to ensure that everybody could have notice rights to anybody that does combat in SL (yes, it gets spammy. yes it gets abused) however it is one of the main groups. even with all of these, there are people who choose to not be apart of ANY of these groups. Those lists can be found in the countless 'spawn groups' of each individual sim (too many to count)

Even so, this is just the SLMC (People who don't RP, and just shoot people) NOT COUNTING OTHER COMMUNITIES

I'm sure I can find thousands more if I went to GOR and asked around if people were there for the combat. I also know that a good portion of VICE are retired SLMC combatants just there for their fix. 

I think I just pointed out "way more folks than you think" there, buddy.

at any rate, the SLMC definitely does cover most of all combat in SL (without roleplay mind you) but that is also because it is the original, and oldest form of all combat in SL. I know it is hard to understand that this massive community has been here hiding away, but that's because We usually don't reach out to the rest of the game because it's rather... unusual (don't argue it, you know it's true) I'd get more officers, and leaders of other factions to post on the forums in an attempt to show you that SL is actually probably half RP, and half combat only but there are many variables that get in the way of that. 

but again, that is JUST the SLMC, not counting GOR, VICE or the others (too many to list) I'm certain there are some I don't even know of.

Edited by Parx Oran
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I have no horse in this race, but regarding one of the points in your opening post:

On 21/11/2017 at 12:17 AM, Parx Oran said:

We could advertise combat groups as combat groups instead of people having to be told when they come to combat sims that "Yo, we don't RP so stop calling me Sir. It's weirding me out." 

You would find those posts quickly moved to the Commerce section of the forum, which is the only place here where advertising in some form is allowed. Even the roleplayers aren't allowed to advertise their regions in their own section (many try to, most are removed, although one or two occasionally slip through the net).

On another point - specifically why there is no combat section on the forum - Linden Lab created those sections, and they reflect how Linden Lab wants SL to be regarded by the general outside world. If you scroll down through the main forum you'll notice that the sub-forums focus around arts and creation, friends and general social, and commerce. Quite possibly Linden Lab doesn't want SL to be viewed by outsiders who may consider joining as a place where people shoot other people, even in specialised and consensual military combat regions. Add to that, too, that people shooting at others in virtual environments is often linked to griefing. Not the case with you guys, I know, but that's an immediate association for many people out there. It's a potential negative selling point.

There are large sailing communities, sports communities, aviation communities. None of them have a dedicated sub-forum. Hell, even the fashion community - which is arguably one of the three biggest communities in SL (bigger, even, than Roleplay) - is relegated to the Creation sub-forum, which suggests to people wanting to get involved in it that it's only for those who make clothing instead of those who want to discuss it or ask where to find specific items for specific looks (and yes, the latter type of question always gets moved to the howling wasteland that is the Wanted sub-forum).

In short: it's been suggested in this post that you open a support ticket with your suggestion, so why not do that? You'll either get an answer (positive or not) or you won't. But here you're showing all of these names and giving all of these reasons in these posts to other residents, not to the people who can actually do something about it.

Addendum: Also, be aware that it took us months of asking just to get a visible link for opening a new support ticket placed in the forum sidebar, so we could point residents to it when they have questions or problems. Don't hold your breath for a new sub-forum to be created anytime soon.

Edited by Skell Dagger
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1 hour ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Yes, Sir!

I like your math.

;-).

2/3rds don't agree with genesis and aren't in it. The 2/3rds missing from it can be found in the fray ^^ 

as for the people not jumping in on this thread, the SLMC doesn't like reaching out to the rest of SL and only very seldom even leaves our own sim network. getting more than one military to agree on anything takes a lot of work.

Edited by Parx Oran
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11 hours ago, Parx Oran said:

Pay attention here because this is where I show you...

... that you don't have a damn clue...

There are more RLV BDSM people in SL than prim bullet PvP fans, and more RLV BDSM sims than prim bullet PvP sims, and they have just as little to do with the elitist para RP snobs as you and yet, WE don't get our own forum section, so what makes you so damned ENTITLED.

This seems to be a common attitude amongst PvPers everywhere online. The whole "We may be an insignificant minority but if the devs would just listen to us and make Spawn Camping Noob Ganker PvP compulsory for everyone, it would boost revenue for 'name of game' and save this system..." is frankly just irritating.

Pay attention here because... Most of us just don't give a damn about PvP, and never will...

 

Edited by Klytyna
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Just now, Klytyna said:

... that you don't have a damn clue...

 

There are more RLV BDSM people in SL than prim bullet PvP fans, and more RLV BDSM sims than prim bullet PvP sims, and they have just as little to do with the elitist para RP snobs as you and yet, WE don't get our own forum section, so what makes you so damned ENTITLED. This seems to be a common attitude amongst PvPers everywhere online. The whole "We may be an insignificant minority but if the devs would just listen to us and make Spawn Camping Noob Ganker PvP compulsory for everyone, it would boost revenue for 'name of game' and save this system..." is frankly just irritating. Pay attention here because... Most of us just don't give a damn about PvP, and never will...
 

of course there are lol. any sim can allow sex and have it be enormous the next day. 

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2 minutes ago, Parx Oran said:

any sim can allow sex and have it be enormous the next day

As I said, you don't have a damn clue... RLV BDSM is generally not "allowing sex and gaining massive traffic", but like most self entitled Online PvP junkies, you can't get your head around anything but "pew-pew i killed you"...

You don't have your own section for the same reason many other and larger groups don't, LL can't be arsed pandering to every minority interest in SL, and often as not don't with to be seen as supporting it by admitting it even exists.

Get over it, advertise your pew-pew through the permitted and available channels, stop the whining, move on...
 

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9 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

As I said, you don't have a damn clue... RLV BDSM is generally not "allowing sex and gaining massive traffic", but like most self entitled Online PvP junkies, you can't get your head around anything but "pew-pew i killed you"...

You don't have your own section for the same reason many other and larger groups don't, LL can't be arsed pandering to every minority interest in SL, and often as not don't with to be seen as supporting it by admitting it even exists.

Get over it, advertise your pew-pew through the permitted and available channels, stop the whining, move on...
 

angery. i enjoy the feedback, however, I'm going to continue by gaining the support of my community, and other communities that wish for it to happen. The "you don't have a clue" door goes both ways and unfortunately that is entirely our fault as a community for lying dormant for over 10 years.

Edited by Parx Oran
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The Fact of the Matter is people Do not realize that we have a Community this big because for some Reason loads of people see us with a weapon on they think Grieffer, i can tell u with our community that is not the Case. the SLMC use to be massive. I am talking 20 Plus Groups all with the Same Goal, which is Fast paced First person Shooting, melee. Now we are much few Groups but still here roughly more than 10 down the Line and Still going at it. i myself have been a part of this community for 5 years of my SL life and still loving it. unlike Zombie sims and Chaos Combat sims and other combat systems, SLMC, Using the Linden Labs Combat System [LLCS], which mind you, is the Health system built in and embedded to the SL Viewer, not a wearable heath system, but built into the viewer, that mean less Scripted items to wear, AKA HUDs and relays and over head displays, means less script time = less lag problems. mind you yes we are old as a community and a system, but we evolved with the Changes of SL, more efficiency on Script systems, better looking and less Resource heavy making some military Visual Appearance looking unique to their Style. There are Many Main Stream factions that fight against each other and when in need even help each other with combat or Research and development to make the group more self efficient. new Groups do pop up as a Competing Faction an many Main stream will over help to get them started up. the way i see it is the more Groups pop up the more the Activity there is for all.

 

so here is a little bit of extra info. type SLMC in the Land search an see what comes up. pop in a d cam around and u can even ask people for extra information. mind you not all the Groups will be the Same and you will get different results from each sim.

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On 11/20/2017 at 7:17 PM, Parx Oran said:

       Hello, So I've noticed that most combat-related posts get moved to Roleplay, But why? A very large portion of Combat communities exists that don't RP. And a very large portion of RP communities have sections that Do combat, but when fighting is completely devoid of all RP. I'll give some examples of these sims, and what they are (sorry if i leave out DCS, and GOR too much, I'm not very well versed in the two but are aware the combat aspects are very in-depth.)

                           VICE: (That I know of)

Binh Dinh: A Vietnam war era combat sim with roleplay elements, but the focus is primarily on the combat

New Bastogne: A European WWII chain of combat sims with the option of RP

Tulagi: A WWII themed vice arena chain of sims. I'm not too sure if they RP there at all. If they do, it's news to me.

The rest are roleplay sims with a side of combat. so Coastguard RP's, and the like.

SLMC/LLCS:

Coercion Combine: A Sci-Fi Knights group that acts as a public combat sim, and a military base. There is no roleplay here, and are laughed at when they do (Discord gets fun)

Chaos Indivism: A Warhammer 40K Chaos group that acts as a public combat sim, and a military base. There is no roleplay here, and are encouraged to not.

Chaos Decretar: Another Warhammer 40K Chaos group that acts as a public combat sim, and a military base. There is no roleplay here, and are harassed endlessly if they do.

TKOI: An Interdimensional furry group that acts as a public combat sim, and a military base. There is no roleplay here, and are encouraged to not.

CDF: A sci-fi Macro furry with guns themed group that acts as a public combat sim, and a military base. There is no roleplay here, and are encouraged to not.

Valix: A Final Fantasy 14 themed group that acts as a public combat sim, and a military base. There is no roleplay here, and are encouraged to not.

XAF: A dead military group that kept their sim open for others to enjoy publicly. You can roleplay here if you want I guess, but if a tree falls, and nobody is around to hear it, does it really make a sound?

Task Force Ghosts: A Modern Warfare themed group that acts as a public combat sim, and a military base. There could be RP here, but nobody is for sure. they are still primarily a combat group.

I mean I can go on, cuz there is more but I'm sure you get the point.

What could we do with a combat section that the roleplay section already doesn't do though, Kobi?

Well, I'll tell ya!

       We could advertise combat groups as combat groups instead of people having to be told when they come to combat sims that "Yo, we don't RP so stop calling me Sir. It's weirding me out."                         I swear, like 4 times a day lol

       The RP sims that focus on RP, but have combat elements such as GOR, and DCS (and those few VICE sims) can have a better platform to discuss the countless aspects of their combat experiences with their respective systems to improve them without people discussing the roleplay in between.

       Combat sims can easily get more exposure from this. People might even see that there is more to SL than furry sex, and dance animations than they had originally thought. People would see that there are opportunities for making combat sims and systems and possibly find a new passion.

       The dark corner of SL that is combat wouldn't be so dark and secluded anymore, and would hopefully get the exposure it needs to grow again.

       Discuss weapons, and their specific benefits in different situations, People could discuss Primjumping, what kinds of viewer controls should be allowed, how to navigate properly in a combat sim, etc..

Point being, there's no reason you shouldn't, but many reasons you should.

Don't forget we were one of the first communities, and will easily be one of your last. Please don't leave us feeling left out.

 

 

 

 

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I think the question is rather, why aren't there more use of subforums?

Arguably it would be better to subcategorize the forums even further to allow things like Combat to have a dedicated spot.

It's an extremely easy thing to do. The actual act of making a subforum would take less than five minutes. 

I think the discussion here is mostly moot since this might fit on the jira/web user groups more.

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10 minutes ago, Ghost Menjou said:

 why aren't there more use of subforums?

Arguably it would be better to subcategorize the forums even further to allow things to have a dedicated spot.

It's an extremely easy thing to do.

 

newer members already post their problem at the most exotic sections, older accounts do it on purpose or keep advertising...

no thanks... it's enough for me.

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Yeah, I really do not understand why there is not a combat forums when LL Damage was instated for a reason, let alone the idea for the potential for combat. There's also numerous amounts of people actively engaging in combat-related sims every day without typing paragraphs at eachother. There's no reason why there shouldn't be a forum for combat, and there's no reason to be "bundled in" with all these very different Roleplay or just "Game" groups when we do not function even nearly the same.

Doing that only hurts the community's chance to grow and garner more attention and popularity from new faces potentially wanting to be involved -- That only hurts everyone.

Also, when putting things on the Marketplace, why are there so many categories for weaponry, yet literally NO forums for combat or anything to do with them? What sense does that make?

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2 hours ago, Adonis Cobalt said:

Also, when putting things on the Marketplace, why are there so many categories for weaponry, yet literally NO forums for combat or anything to do with them? What sense does that make?

Adding to this Fact that almost every single Fire Arm and most Melee weapons that are Sold on the Market Place have Linden Lab Damage Enabled Bullets and/or Melee Prims as a standard or defualt  option.

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If this topic "isn't just about SLMC", which has been pointed out to me, repeatedly...why is that the only topic some folks want to discuss here? lol

That question aside, few, if any, of the things I stated, have been covered by any of the replies here...so I will assume this is merely one small group of people that participate in SLMC that are angry they don't have a sub forum...because that's what it sounds like. If you don't want people thinking that's what you're doing, you probably should do a lot less discussing of it, and choose the proper channels to try and get your own subforum as was pointed out on page one. 

I do understand wanting a forum, actually, and I don't inherently disagree with a combat subforum (though I also understand why LL hasn't created a subforum for every interest group, regardless of size...it makes sense to me, because I work the backend of forums/message boards and even chat groups,  and it's much more of a pain in the ass trying to cater to everyone than some folks think).

My beef was with the whole "we are COMBAT, we don't RP, at all, in any way"...but..of course, we have roles, we have guides, we have guidelines and rules, training...and everything else. I think the term roleplay isn't misplaced when discussing combat, at all. And yes some of you folks do absolutely get angry when someone calls it that, I've seen it, lol. Got kicked off a sim for calling it that too, and all I was doing was talking to someone about *my* own combat that I was getting ready to take part in-iterally, I was explaining what I was doing standing there, with a weapon in hand, to a new user who just happened to tp in while I was getting ready to go shoot some mofos...bam, booted

. You also tend to change the subject when asked why it's *not* rp, in any form, instead of answering the question...and the deflections are often quite terrible, make no sense, and don't do much to reiterate the "IT'S NOT RP!!!" standpoint, because they don't even cover that aspect lol. A simple "it's not RP *to me*" answer would suffice, if that's the answer, and it would make a bit more sense, if it's not rp to *you*(though I may not understand how you came to that answer, at least I'd know you're only applying it to yourself). I know you don't speak for all who participate in *any form of combat in sl, you don't even speak for the majority of them...so nope, you don't get to say "it's not rp, at all, in any way...nope", and have people believe it's true. 

When I'm out shooting folks, pvp, pve, hell shooting zombies...it's all a form of roleplay. I enjoy it immensely at times, but it's still, very much, a form of roleplay. Don't tell me I can't call it that , only my mama gets to order me around, or my hubby, sometimes, cuz that's hot ;)

...but you are neither of them.

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4 hours ago, Tari Landar said:

If this topic "isn't just about SLMC", which has been pointed out to me, repeatedly...why is that the only topic some folks want to discuss here? lol

 

Because it is the largest example, and one of the oldest communities in SL. Some would argue it is the oldest standing community.

I understand the frustration, however when you're shooting NPC zombies for points, you make of it what you will. The combat subforum would be used for discussing, advertising, educating, and debating different aspects of combat in SL. Combat in this sense being defined as shooting at each other for the sake of fun and competition, and not for playing roles.

 

also you weren't booted. you stood there discussing what you were doing with gun in hand when you shouldn't have been roleplaying, you should have been doing combat. as a result, you died while you were busy typing. When you die in LLCS enabled sims, you get teleported back home. You might have been educated about this if we had a combat subforum.

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16 minutes ago, Parx Oran said:

also you weren't booted. you stood there discussing what you were doing with gun in hand when you shouldn't have been roleplaying, you should have been doing combat. as a result, you died while you were busy typing. When you die in LLCS enabled sims, you get teleported back home. You might have been educated about this if we had a combat subforum.

Again, failing to address most of what was said...lmao.

But, nope, you're wrong, that's not what happened at all, clearly you don't even bother reading anything you respond to, at all. I wasn't rp-ing, I MENTIONED the word roleplay, from a safe area, and both I and the dude that asked me what I was getting ready to go do (my words were "I'm gonna go rp kill these dudes")-got booted. I didn't die, I wasn't busy typing, or roleplaying, I was in the area at *landing*, a place it's safe to stand and chat as per the sim's rules. The boot came about two mins after I typed that-along with some angry local about "IT'S NOT RP", a tad more proof that some of combat folks get pretty uppity about it, and you're not doing much to dispel that. The dude that booted us was with his cronies all trigger happy. It happens, no biggie, we simply went somewhere else to shoot folks. Their sim, their rules, even if mentioning rp being boot-worthy might sound ridiculous, I don't get butthurt over stupid things..especially when there's plenty of places to have fun.  

Quit trying to pretend you're the be all end all when it comes to all knowledge of combat in sl, you're starting to sound like a petulant child that isn't getting enough attention. Maybe people will take your request a bit more seriously.

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We need a forum for bacon as well.  I am outraged that bacon does not have its own forum.  Coffee also needs a forum and don't try to go slide all coffee posts in the bacon forum either. That is just a slap in the face to all the Muslim and Jewish coffee drinkers.  Coffee.  NOW! it is a well known fact that 87% of the top 9 tenths of the 2/3 population that drink coffee do so with or without bacon involved.

 

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It is rather disappointing to see people try and derail this conversation as to why further subcategories are welcome by acting like literal children and going "muh pies xd". 

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but parx is right about it being one of the oldest communities. I still have a map of SL in 2003 which shows Jessie and the outlands. Considering LL made several sims and an entire combat system does show that focus, research and development resources were spent for the specific reason of combat. 

Oh yeah, did you know that LL has a project with several VICE community members that has resulted in a 40+ sim combat zone for VICE and other metered combat? 

 

Edited by Ghost Menjou
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