Does LL want to fix SL

[Whirly Fizzle]

12 hours ago, Pamela Galli said:

ETA The recent Atlantic article says 600,000 "regularly" use SL.

Sounds about right, maybe even a little on the conservative side.
For Firestorm viewer only,  in a one month period, we generally see just over 500,000 unique users logging in on Firestorm, ~10 million sessions/mo, ~17 million HOURS  inworld/mo.
How many of those users & hours are clocked up by "bots", I have no idea, but I doubt many running a bot will to be using Firestorm intead of a dedicated bot viewer.
 

12 hours ago, Pamela Galli said:

Would need to multiply by avg time spent inworld, and I forget what that is.

Again I can only tell you for Firestorm users but the average session length is usually between 100-130 mins, median mins ~40-45 for the most current release.
 

Edited November 21, 2017 by Whirly Fizzle

[Chic Aeon]

12 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

It's actually been in general use to mean simply 'very large'.

I looked this up as I was one of the ones thinking "gigantic" not "tiny". And indeed while the dictionaries define it as very tiny, they also point to uses where in the context of the article it means very LARGE.   So funny how language is :D. 

Smarter now. 

[Phil Deakins]

7 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

The use of "quantum leap" to suggest a big change is correct. Yes, the Planck Constant (the quantum limit) is a very small thing, but that's not the point. Max Planck went to his death abhorring the implications of the mathematical trick he'd use to explain his observations. He never believed it was real. Einstein had great difficulty with the implications as well (and went to his death abhorring his own mathematical trick, the Cosmological Constant). Neither of them ever made the crude literal interpretation you're using at this moment. It's not the smallness of the quantum that makes it extraordinary. It's the fact that you can't go smaller, that you can't know more. Compared to the infinitesimal endpoint imagined by much of science until Planck, his tiny constant is as huge as the paradigm shift from classical to quantum mechanics.

That makes my point very well indeed. Thank you.

As you point out, the quantum/quanta is tiny - very tiny. That's what I said. It makes no difference whatsoever that Planck didn't like it after he'd coined the word for it. It's the word that we're talking about, not what Planck thought later. And Einstein's cosmological constant, and what he thought about it, is irrelevant to this discussion.

"his tiny constant is as huge as the paradigm shift from classical to quantum mechanics." It's the shift that's huge, not the quanta, which, as you again agree, is tiny.

 

7 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

And perhaps you've missed other quantum metaphors that refer to the irreducible smallness of something? From Sir Ian Fleming

Coincidentally, I watched the film 2 days ago. It means nothing in this discussion.

[Madelaine McMasters]

11 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

That makes my point very well indeed. Thank you.

As you point out, the quantum/quanta is tiny - very tiny. That's what I said. It makes no difference whatsoever that Planck didn't like it after he'd coined the word for it. It's the word that we're talking about, not what Planck thought later. And Einstein's cosmological constant, and what he thought about it, is irrelevant to this discussion.

"his tiny constant is as huge as the paradigm shift from classical to quantum mechanics." It's the shift that's huge, not the quanta, which, as you again agree, is tiny.

 

Coincidentally, I watched the film 2 days ago. It means nothing in this discussion.

Take a look at what you wrote, which I've highlighted in red. The "shift" that you now state is huge... is the quantum leap. So we are now, I think, in agreement. Quanta are tiny, a quantum leap is huge. ChinRey will have to decide what she meant by "quantum leap" as I think she started with the classical meaning of the metaphor and succumbed to your initial misinterpretation.

And, using this metaphor again... The quantum leap of Einstein's Theory of Relativity produced the cosmological constant, which itself presaged a quantum leap in cosmology with the discovery of dark matter to explain it.

[Amanda Crisp]

On 11/19/2017 at 1:11 PM, greek Wingtips said:

The persons that are the income to LL's need to be enticed to stay, the landowners to the creators,  am hearing members leaving or scaling down to save money,

I want to know what LL's is doing about this, Its like the overdue bill that one keeps ignoring, it will come to ahead when you have to confront it, but by that time it will be too late.

Unfortunately, some of the factors driving long-term (since 2005) Residents away from SL lie outside Linden Lab’s ability to influence.

LL seems incapable of dealing with stalkers, griefers and semi-professional “Social Bomb Throwers” - and people eventually lose patience and go elsewhere.

LL has also taken no effective action to incentivize the SL Roleplay community (formerly a Big Deal for SL) - and RPers are known for being willing to dump $ on the in-world economy on avatars, props, land rentals and other gadgets to build their perfect Character.

Personally, I stay here because my Partner is heavily invested here. She enjoys DJing and helping to keep a night-spot going; and I enjoy and admire her :-) I’m here for her; not because LL has really -earned- what I invest in Tier each month and on my annual Premium fee.

[Anna Nova]

4 hours ago, Whirly Fizzle said:

Sounds about right, maybe even a little on the conservative side.
For Firestorm viewer only,  in a one month period, we generally see just over 500,000 unique users logging in on Firestorm, ~10 million sessions/mo, ~17 million HOURS  inworld/mo.
How many of those users & hours are clocked up by "bots", I have no idea, but I doubt many running a bot will to be using Firestorm intead of a dedicated bot viewer.
 

Again I can only tell you for Firestorm users but the average session length is usually between 100-130 mins, median mins ~40-45 for the most current release.
 

Interesting.  How much data do you collect on each log-in?  I use several different IP addresses for instance, from several VPNs, how would you know it's me?  How would you know it isn't an alt using a different VPN circuit?

I wasn't aware that Firestorm collected login info, and find this a worrying development.

[Whirly Fizzle]

2 minutes ago, anna2358 said:

I wasn't aware that Firestorm collected login info, and find this a worrying development.

We don't.  Linden lab give TPV viewers on the TPV directory the stats.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

19 minutes ago, anna2358 said:

Interesting.  How much data do you collect on each log-in?  I use several different IP addresses for instance, from several VPNs, how would you know it's me?  How would you know it isn't an alt using a different VPN circuit?

I wasn't aware that Firestorm collected login info, and find this a worrying development.

Why s this worrying? Every web browser you use collects data, if you turn off ad blocker you will see ads relevant to whatever site you have visited. LL collects data about your log in info, such as when you logged in and for how long. Also, yes, they do monitor what IP address you use. So they can IP ban people if needed. Nothing scary here.. 

[Resi Pfeffer]

31 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Also, yes, they do monitor what IP address you use. So they can IP ban people if needed. Nothing scary here.. 

How does that work? As much as i know that ip thing changes every day.
Or did i get confused with MAC?

[Theresa Tennyson]

16 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

But the 'quantum' in 'quantum leap' is from the word 'quanta', which is very tiny, and is misused.

Does your computer mouse run away when the cat comes in the room?

[femhalf]

21 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

This is actually very, very good to the extent it will simplify / unify the avatar customization process, which is now so fantastically Balkanized that it's impossible to explain to newbies. Little wonder that the SL population is gradually dying off: after accreting a decade of incompatible complexities, the avatar is such a kludgy contraption that learning to configure it is an exercise in digital archeology.

 

Spot on.  Here's what i wrote back in August of 2016...

Quote

"Another frustrating thing is the complicated avatar mess.  There's no uniformity to it.  There's default avatars, new mesh default avatars, old default avatars, fitted mesh, rigged mesh, and then mesh bodies and parts.  It's just confusing!

And it gets even more confusing when you try to find clothes.  Almost all shoes require Slink feet.  Clothes are either fitted, rigged, or mesh.  Hair and accessories are confusing too."

 

SL is like Frankenstein.  It's a patchwork of a mess.  They can easily solve this mess by releasing new avatars with an applier system.  Appliers are everything in SL now.  You need them for skins, clothing, tattoos, makeup, etc.  If they wanted to go further, they could also release three sets of feet for females;  flat, mid, and high poses.

Those two changes would do wonders for SL and ease the process for newbies and returning players.  Not only that, but it would give developers some incentive to start developing for LL avatars again, because that market is still the majority.

[Anna Nova]

2 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Why s this worrying? Every web browser you use collects data, if you turn off ad blocker you will see ads relevant to whatever site you have visited. LL collects data about your log in info, such as when you logged in and for how long. Also, yes, they do monitor what IP address you use. So they can IP ban people if needed. Nothing scary here.. 

I'm not (much) concerned with Linden Labs. I have a commercial relationship with them under the TOS.  I entered into that agreement freely for my own purposes.

What concerned me was if the Firestorm Viewer was independently, and without my permission, recording details of log-ins with the Firestorm creators.  Whirly has publicly assured me they don't.  I trust Whirly - so end of concern.

My IP won't be much use as it will be the IP of one of several VPNs that I use, and in any case my ISP changes my 'real' IP every week.  People suggest that MAC addresses can be used this way, but they can't, MAC addresses don't go beyond the LAN, and in any case they are easy to spoof.

Why do I go to all this trouble?  I trust my friends, but I do not trust my own (UK/EU) government, and even less do I trust the unaccountable agencies of the United States where LL resides.  Even if they say they only want to record this data to prevent terrorism, I know full well it is all about tax evasion, border control, and suppression of minority viewpoints.

[Phil Deakins]

5 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Take a look at what you wrote, which I've highlighted in red. The "shift" that you now state is huge... is the quantum leap. So we are now, I think, in agreement. Quanta are tiny, a quantum leap is huge. ChinRey will have to decide what she meant by "quantum leap" as I think she started with the classical meaning of the metaphor and succumbed to your initial misinterpretation.

And, using this metaphor again... The quantum leap of Einstein's Theory of Relativity produced the cosmological constant, which itself presaged a quantum leap in cosmology with the discovery of dark matter to explain it.

You are mistaken, Maddy. When I agreed with you that the shift is huge, I did not agree that it's a 'quantum' shift. You really are streching things with that.

The only reason why people understand a quantum leap to be huge is because the phrase wrongly used the word, 'quantum',  when it was first coined and, since the context implied big, that's what people have understood it to mean. Language evolves and 'quantum leap' has come to indicate big, so that's fair enough, but it's still a misuse of the word.

Eisntsein didn't make a 'quantum' leap, when he came up with the cosmological contant. That's just you scrambling to find something to support you in this discussion, and applying the word 'quantum' yourself. He made a leap, perhaps a leap of insight, which he later conceded was a mistake, but he didn't say that he made a 'quantum' leap.

Edited November 21, 2017 by Phil Deakins

[ChinRey]

9 hours ago, Whirly Fizzle said:

Sounds about right, maybe even a little on the conservative side.

The Atlantic article actually quotes two wildly different numbers, 600,000 and 800,000.

I did some reasearch and found references to Ebbe mentioning both these figures with different meanings and at different times. I'm not going to repeat everything here but:

• 800,000 is the number of accounts that logged on during a 30 day period around January-February 2017
• 600,000 is the number of accounts that either logged on multiple times or logged on once and had logged on previously during a 30 day period around March-April 2016. The total number of "active users" at that time - the one comparable to the 800,000 number - was 900,000 but 300,000 of them were one-timers, new accounts that logged on once, didn't like what they saw and left right away.

The number of accounts logged on in 30 days around May-June 2015 was about 1,000,000 so it seems the number dropped at a fairly steady rate of about 10,000 a month throughout the last half of 2015 and the whole of 2016. If the trend has continued since then, we are down to 700,000-720,000 by now.

 

9 hours ago, Whirly Fizzle said:

in a one month period, we generally see just over 500,000 unique users logging in on Firestorm

Do not confuse the number of accounts with the number of people! That is a huge mistake.

I am six of those unique Firestorm users myself - or 19 if you also count logons to other grids. I've checked and double checked and tried everything I could to change it but apparently I'm still only one person.

Edited November 21, 2017 by ChinRey

[Phil Deakins]

13 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

I've checked and double checked and tried everything I could to change it but apparently I'm still only one person.

Pity. You could have sent a spare one of you over to me - for a holiday, of course

[Klytyna]

1 hour ago, ChinRey said:

but 300,000 of them were one-timers, new accounts that logged on once, didn't like what they saw and left right away.

...

Noob2017: Hi! I'm new here, so whats to do around here, where is everyone?

SelfEntitled.Madlander2006: Argggghhhh! A filthy free-2-play rabble resident named griefer trash alt from planet "not-2006"! 

The grid is empty, I guestimate that 47,500 of the 50,000 accounts logged in right now are bot and alts and don't count, the private islands are all anti social types who live in secrecy, probably commie perverts. 

The Madlands are the only REAL place in SL, and now trash like you are here, you don't even have a Premi-Nazi Party Member's lapel pin!  LL need to FIX SL right now!

ALL IS LOST! THE SKY IS FALLLLLLLLLLINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!

Noob2017: Ah... Thanks. Bye!

...

Nearly six years ago, that was pretty much MY welcome to SL, I'm the kind who'll respond to that sort of thing with a stream of profanity that can melt an Americans ear drums at 25 yards, and a swift knee to their trouser prim... But most new arrivals are more "sensitive flowers" than I ever was...

 

Edited November 21, 2017 by Klytyna

[Zeta Vandyke]

18 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

the private islands are all anti social types who live in secrecy, probably commie perverts. 

I can only imagine how those would look. Probably wearing pervy latex outfits in the proud red and yellow commie colors

[Klytyna]

13 minutes ago, Zeta Vandyke said:

I can only imagine how those would look. Probably wearing pervy latex outfits in the proud red and yellow commie colors

Well... Here's me, on one of those "secretive private non Madlands anti social sims" (that's open to the public in point of fact)...

Plenty of latex, plenty of red, but not a lot of yellow unless you count the reflections from the pervy dungeon torches...

Close enoughto meet your expectations of what we secretive island dwellers look like?  
 

[Zeta Vandyke]

Yeah, good enough

Think I'm converted to communism...

 

[Innula Zenovka]

1 hour ago, Klytyna said:

...

Noob2017: Hi! I'm new here, so whats to do around here, where is everyone?

SelfEntitled.Madlander2006: Argggghhhh! A filthy free-2-play rabble resident named griefer trash alt from planet "not-2006"! 

The grid is empty, I guestimate that 47,500 of the 50,000 accounts logged in right now are bot and alts and don't count, the private islands are all anti social types who live in secrecy, probably commie perverts. 

The Madlands are the only REAL place in SL, and now trash like you are here, you don't even have a Premi-Nazi Party Member's lapel pin!  LL need to FIX SL right now!

ALL IS LOST! THE SKY IS FALLLLLLLLLLINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!

Noob2017: Ah... Thanks. Bye!

...

Nearly six years ago, that was pretty much MY welcome to SL, I'm the kind who'll respond to that sort of thing with a stream of profanity that can melt an Americans ear drums at 25 yards, and a swift knee to their trouser prim... But most new arrivals are more "sensitive flowers" than I ever was...

 

Why do you say that kind of encounter is more likely to take place on the mainland than on a private region?   

[Klytyna]

24 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Why do you say that kind of encounter is more likely to take place on the mainland than on a private region?

Do you read the noob threads here?

Once you finish the noob boot camp assault course, and dodge past the pickpockets, con-artists and lotharios lurking on "Un-Social Island" as a noob with NO handy folder full of LM's you turn to the destinaton guide, a large number end up on the Madlands, wander around a bit, log in here and post "Hi i'm new to SL, where is everybody"

The second reason why that sort of encounter is more likely on the Madlands is... Thats where you find the kind of people who do that "you're new please die'" welcome...

To be fair, this sort of encounter doesn't HAVE to actually take place on the Madlands... my original "Noob please quit sl and die filthy alt" welcome actually happened on some public access private estate place called...

Hmmm what was it's name... "The Feedumb Incontinent" ? Maybe you've heard of it...  

The point isn't WHERE, it's WHO and WHAT they say...

Make an effort to improve your avatar on day one so you don't look crap and "you are a filthy alt" who should leave SL.

Account under 90 days old and "you are a filthy griefer" who should leave SL.

And so on... it's going to be a significant factor in why, apparently, 300,000 new users every year just give up on day 1, not the only reason but a reason to be sure.

 

Edited November 21, 2017 by Klytyna

[Janet Voxel]

I wouldn’t go that far, but that’s pretty accurate @Klytyna . It’s pretty funny too, my first week in SL went something like that. I was accused of being an alt, until I asked what an AO was, then I was given three folders one with shapes, one with skins and one with hairs and told to play and learn.

I don’t think that happens as much any more. LL needs to do a better job of showing what’s possible in SL. Finding Builder’s Brewery pretty much kept me on SL and I’m still learning from there. Luckily I found that by accident.

[Innula Zenovka]

@Klytyna  Do you mean your encounter on the Freedom Continent was with one of the staff or with another visitor?    A staff member certainly shouldn't have behaved that way (and they are trained) but obviously any venue finds it difficult to prevent visitors from being obnoxious to other visitors, though obviously they can and do eject people when they see them behaving obnoxiously.

Be that as it may, though, I think you're conflating several different issues.     While there's lots of empty and abandoned mainland, most private regions seem pretty empty most of the time, too.   So it's not just a case of empty mainland vs busy private regions.   Furthermore, when people are removed from a  region (mainland or private) because their account is too new, that's normally done by a scripted object.   That's obviously got nothing to do with what you look like.    

While you've made it clear you really dislike the mainland for various reasons, and in general I prefer private estates myself, I really don't see that the particular issue of how people behave to new residents has much to do with mainland vs private.   Indeed, isn't a common reason for buying a private region/homestead "so I can control who comes here"?

 

 

[ChinRey]

2 hours ago, Klytyna said:

Nearly six years ago, that was pretty much MY welcome to SL

Well, at least that explains Klytyna's passionate hatred for and frequent sweeping statements about everything mainland. First impressions die hard.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

1 hour ago, Klytyna said:

Do you read the noob threads here?

Once you finish the noob boot camp assault course, and dodge past the pickpockets, con-artists and lotharios lurking on "Un-Social Island" as a noob with NO handy folder full of LM's you turn to the destinaton guide, a large number end up on the Madlands, wander around a bit, log in here and post "Hi i'm new to SL, where is everybody"

The second reason why that sort of encounter is more likely on the Madlands is... Thats where you find the kind of people who do that "you're new please die'" welcome...

To be fair, this sort of encounter doesn't HAVE to actually take place on the Madlands... my original "Noob please quit sl and die filthy alt" welcome actually happened on some public access private estate place called...

Hmmm what was it's name... "The Feedumb Incontinent" ? Maybe you've heard of it...  

The point isn't WHERE, it's WHO and WHAT they say...

Make an effort to improve your avatar on day one so you don't look crap and "you are a filthy alt" who should leave SL.

Account under 90 days old and "you are a filthy griefer" who should leave SL.

And so on... it's going to be a significant factor in why, apparently, 300,000 new users every year just give up on day 1, not the only reason but a reason to be sure.

It finally clicked in my head who you remind me of.. Daria Afterthought. She had the same sharp tongue and cutting wit.. She was fun to chat with.