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promiscute

Open Letter to Linden Lab Concerning Image Hosting

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To all concerned:

As a longtime Second Life and Flickr user, I have seen over the past few years what an amazing presence Second Life users have on Flickr, and the massive volume of Second Life images hosted there. From untouched Second Life screenshots directly uploaded, to carefully detailed art pieces originating from a screenshot, nearly all of that work is unique to this grid and the people who call it home. I have met many amazing Second Life image-makers through the networking resource that Flickr used to be, and have watched the community of those creators raked over the coals by everything from feed and forum trolls to Flickr mismanagement, all while struggling with the continuing deficiencies in the Flickr platform and it's utter unsuitability for the unique needs of the Second Life imaging community (and in some corners, open hostility toward the Second Life community as a whole).

I myself would very gladly, were it an option, agree to the addition of some monthly amount to my Premium fees for Second Life, to facilitate my access to a Linden Lab-operated image hosting service. I cannot imagine, particularly in the current state of affairs for Second Life image-makers trying to use Flickr, that there would be any trouble securing wide-spread support for such a service. For many, certainly including me, the ability to create quality artistic imagery within the Second Life universe is one solid reason why the service is so loved and appreciated, as that quality of outlet, along with the ability to create 'living' 3D art for the viewer to experience inworld in unique ways, is unprecedented.

If Linden Lab--or a dedicated agent--were to host the images we make on the grid on a platform intended for it, for a modest fee with possibly a limited free-level service and possibly a discount (or inclusion with the subscription) for premium users with the further possibility of commercial accounts for advertisers, or any other possible side-sources for cost offset, I for one cannot fathom failure of that effort to improve the environment for Second Life photographers, who are certainly the majority of active users (nearly everyone takes screenshots). Bloggers spend more on clothes than anyone in Second Life, surely. Imagine keeping the exposure, the connections, the financial benefits of the vast majority of Second Life image creation in the company.

If at some point in the future the concept is addressed seriously, please sign me up at once.

Submitted humbly and very earnestly,

Dee Wells.

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I did say if the concept were addressed seriously. Hosting thumbnails is not an issue, hosting the artwork that keeps many of us spending money here is.

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When a platform elsewhere offers precisely what you want(and Flickr does, quirks and all), at *no* cost, you are likely to find few that would support an *at cost linden lab supported/created/staffed* version. But, you'd have to look at the big picture first, and frankly, LL doesn't have the greatest track record for "their own hosted versions of things already in existence"(for lack of better terminology on my part). The vast majority of users in sl, do not pay for premium. Something like this, would most definitely not entice them to do so. Just look at what happened when LL took over third party marketplace type websites...folks use MP now, of course, quite a lot(perhaps more than inworld in many instances), but that idea was, well, not very widely accepted at first. If LL had limited the MP to only premium users, it certainly would not have been accepted, at all.  I guess what I am getting at, is the "premium required" and "at a cost" parts, are going to deter a huge portion of the folks that use flickr to share sl pics. 

I've met loads of folks through flickr, have some good friends that use it constantly too. It IS the best option, and the fact that it is at no cost, well, yeah, that's a huge part of why it's successful and so many users utilize it, even despite the issues that it may have here and there. 

I am not saying it's a bad idea, of course, it would be nice to see something like this, I just can see it going over about as well as a lead balloon, though, most especially if LL created/ran/whatever it. 

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9 hours ago, promiscute said:

I did say if the concept were addressed seriously. Hosting thumbnails is not an issue, hosting the artwork that keeps many of us spending money here is.

The my.secondlife feeds do not "host thumbnails", they display thumbnails that allow you to access the full sized images, if you are smart enough to figure out how to use a web browser. This may however be a problem for Type-with-yo0ur-thumbs dumb-phone users...

You look at somebody's feed...

1. See the bit where it says "[name] has shared a snapshot" ? Click on the word snapshot...

2. See the larger preview image? Click on it to see the original full size picture...

This isn't rocket science, if you can't work out how to use a web browser, don't complain if your internet experience sucks...
 

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Are there not there enough hosting platforms already to share pictures? I do not think the hosting service is the issue, I think the people using it are. Nowadays (I feel old) its all about getting as many likes and favs as possible. Put you image out there in as many groups possible, and then fav and like as many random other peoples pictures so they come back and like yours in return.

I used to Flickr a lot, and people actually responded to what was posted, even had meet ups and galleries in SL, was quite social. Now I see people with 5k+ followers, every picture 100+ favs, loaded with comment but all are "Thank you for posting in this group <logo image here> Post more to get more bla bla". Maybe one or two actual people responding to what was posted.

Maybe I am just getting old... :)

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There is no trolling in this thread. There are people disagreeing with your idea, but that's nothing like trolling. It's what forums do - discuss things. If you only wanted posts that agree with you, you shouldn't post in a public forum.

Edited by Phil Deakins
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4 minutes ago, promiscute said:

I did sort of anticipate nothing but trolling, so as I expected, this was a waste of time. Yanking this.

I don't see trolling.  Why is it when someone doesn't get 100 people agreeing, its trolling?

 

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I've used Flickr for a decade for my SL photos and never had any issues with the platform.

Maybe I'm just not advanced enough or knowledgable enough to know that I am having issues there.  B|

 

Side note - As others have pointed out, just because the world does not agree with you does not mean they are all trolls.

 

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4 minutes ago, Clover Jinx said:

The OP might think that applies to the "Flickr mismanagement" comment, but I still don't see the "continuing deficiencies in the Flickr platform and it's utter unsuitability for the unique needs of the Second Life imaging community (and in some corners, open hostility toward the Second Life community as a whole)"

I just don't get it.

 

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It could be about that. If it's not, it's a heck of a coincidence.

I can understand someone wanting to upload their pics to all the SL related groups in flickr, and seeing the reduction to 30 or 60 groups as putting a bit of halt on it, but I don't see how LL doing their own hosting would alleviate that problem. If it the cause of the OP's post, perhaps he imagines LL doing their own version of flickr.

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19 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

 

 

Side note - As others have pointed out, just because the world does not agree with you does not mean they are all trolls.

 

I was referring specifically to Klytyna's suggestion that I'm a 'Type-with-yo0ur-thumbs dumb-phone user' because I don't know how to post generic screenshots that have been processed offline into art onto MySecondlife, and Zeta Vandyke's focused, direct personal attack on me based specifically on my use of flickr as a networking tool, and to the subsequent attacks on me based on my reaction to the personal attacks. It was my mistake to forget to turn notifications from this forum off so I could forget the whole matter while pursuing options outside the LL company umbrella, but that has now been rectified. I was sincere in my thanks--the experience was instructive, and has had some effect on my interest in using SL as an artistic platform as a whole, and has certainly provided some actual insight into why this forum has the reputation it does. So, sincerely--thanks.

Edited by promiscute
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17 minutes ago, promiscute said:

I was referring specifically to Klytyna's suggestion that I'm a 'Type-with-yo0ur-thumbs dumb-phone user' because I don't know how to post generic screenshots that have been processed offline into art onto MySecondlife, and Zeta Vandyke's focused, direct personal attack on me based specifically on my use of flickr as a networking tool, and to the subsequent attacks on me based on my reaction to the personal attacks. It was my mistake to forget to turn notifications from this forum off so I could forget the whole matter while pursuing options outside the LL company umbrella, but that has now been rectified. I was sincere in my thanks--the experience was instructive, and has had some effect on my interest in using SL as an artistic platform as a whole, and has certainly provided some actual insight into why this forum has the reputation it does. So, sincerely--thanks.

Outside of Klytina's response no one here made anything even close to a personal attack during the course of this thread.

If you perceived such tings here then I have some bad news for you: The majority of online communities simply aren't for you.

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16 minutes ago, promiscute said:

and Zeta Vandyke's focused, direct personal attack on me based specifically on my use of flickr as a networking tool

I did not attack you personally. I said in general I find that Flickr (and many other services) are only used for raking in as many likes and favs as possible, not caring about the actual content anymore. If you indeed have the same attitude/work method on Flickr, then yes, I am also talking about you. I could not make that up from your post though, there you seem to care about the actual content/art.

If you post a topic on a forum hoping for our opinions, keep in mind that those opinions may not always be the same as your own. If you only want to hear "great" "nice" and such without us caring for the actual content you posed, you could post this on Flickr next time and add it to 5000 groups.

You're welcome, sincerely! 

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9 minutes ago, Zeta Vandyke said:

you could post this on Flickr next time and add it to 5000 groups.

Except Flickr stopped all that nonsense with their new limits :D

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On 17/11/2017 at 3:22 AM, Klytyna said:

https://my.secondlife.com/ 

SL answered your request years ago...

[/thread]
 

Reading the title, I was hoping for a second that it was an open letter to fix this broken Feed.

Nonetheless, I do understand the desire to have a stable and reliable image hosting service from LL. While I was using the Feed, it did expended my social experience on SL.

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2 hours ago, promiscute said:

my interest in using SL as an artistic platform as a whole

This sounds awfully familiar. Can't quite put my finger on who it reminds me of, though...

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1 hour ago, Skell Dagger said:
4 hours ago, promiscute said:

my interest in using SL as an artistic platform as a whole

This sounds awfully familiar. Can't quite put my finger on who it reminds me of, though...

It can be raised to an art form, Skell...

 

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You guys do realize that Flickr is owned by Yahoo. I loathe Yahoo even after all their claims at patching security problems (my sister lost three computers after insisting on using Yahoo for her e-mail and communications due to hacks and viruses (and yes she was very careful). Youtube owned by Google , while better (imo) still suffers from oversight and censorship and you do have to be careful with what you post on there with copyright and dmca issues.

I also wish LL would step up to the plate (again) and consider expanding the media tools and options we have for hosting. They have voice which is contracted through Vivox. Everquest II used the same service , though not the same contract or package deal , but still craptastic Vivox for VOIP. If we were to go the Skype route , LL would have to contract with Microsoft.

So the whole hosting media idea is not quite clear cut and dry even if a company were to do their own service from scratch, there are still technical areas said media company or service provider might not be able to cover or build into and would have to contract from an outsource company to do the job.

Even our physics engine is not owned by or made by Linden Lab Research.

So all in all, I can see why they do not offer hosting at this time directly through the client and LL.

Edited by Hunter Stern

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