# (SL) The end of days

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When I build a house up on my platform, take into inventory, then rez on the ground, some prim rotations change significantly. When I send the house to the ground straight from the platform, rotations do not change.

Edited by Pamela Galli

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12 hours ago, Pamela Galli said:

When I build a house up on my platform, take into inventory, then rez on the ground, some prim rotations change significantly. When I send the house to the ground straight from the platform, rotations do not change.

The reason is that when you rez a linkset from inventory, the computer has to calculate the relative and absolute position and rotation for each part. When you move it, it just keeps the same values. You can get the same problem when you link or unlink btw. Every time you do that, all positions and rotations throughout the entire linkset are recalculated. It's especially a problem with linkset parts that have a rotation of 180 or 270 degrees.

It's a rounding error. A computer is binary and doesn't really understand the concept of degrees of rotation. I'm not sure how many steps around the circle the SL software operates with. It's at leasy 8,192 - 13 bits - but from what I know of how the early SL programmers thought, they probably spent two whole bytes - 65,536 possible values - on it. In any case, the result the computer gets doesn't fit the 7,200 steps (1/20th of a degree) rotation we actually operate with so it has to be rounded up or down. Sometimes that goes the wrong way.

You have exactly the same problem in Blender btw. It's not as noticeable since Blender uses a higher curve resolution with more steps but if you want to rotate an object by exactly 45 degrees there, you gonna be sorry. At least I was.

Scripters are more fortunate than builders there. In lsl we operate with either radians or quaternion rotations and both those are concepts neither human nor machine can make head or tail out of so it's a more even playing field.

Edited by ChinRey
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I noticed the prim-drift several years ago when I had a private island. It seemed to follow the weekly restarts. I got around it by writing two scripts; the first, when dropped into the root prim of a linkset write the position and rotation in degrees into the root prim's description field, and the second, when dropped into an errant build, used the description field to get the position an rotation and reset the linkset to where it had last been known to be good.

The drift did not happen predictably at each restart, or after the odd rollback, so I was never able to precisely determine what caused it. Since then, I have noticed odd misalignment of the Mock Turtle whilst it was rezzed on a friend's homestead, but again, wasn't able to match the incidents up to specific restarts.

I agree it's annoying, but something I can live with.

With regard to some other points here about user-generated content, I would be very sad to see a decline in that. For me the great variety of the creations in SL far outweighs any variations in build quality. "Cry Havoc! and let slip the prims of yours".

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First off, you guys need to stop saying "LL is not pushing SL users into Sansar".  LL would gladly shut down SL and have all the users be in Sansar.  Do not be fooled.  The end of days is near.  Nobody invests into something to see it fail because of something old.

On 11/17/2017 at 9:25 AM, anna2358 said:

One thought on this.  You have not recently moved the area to a greater height, have you?  Like a skybox type experience, moved up a 1000 meters?  That can cause the issues you are having as the z-coordinate only has so many decimal places, and higher means less precise.

anna2358, I've had my major sim wide city up at 3,000 with no issues.  This time around it's much lower.

On 11/17/2017 at 12:20 PM, janetosilio said:

I think LL is going to squeeze SL until it’s not profitable anymore. So it’s not going anywhere for a while.

So far Sansar has been pretty underwhelming. I do think all of the improvements LL has made the last couple of years have been to test out features of  Sansar. Sansar might fail, that’s a pretty big possibility. They’ll still have second life to fall back on.

Janetosilio, there is absolutely nothing to do in Sansar.  It's basically IMVU in 3D.  They put you in a little box and tell you to create.  It failed the moment they thought about it.  Nobody cares about VR.  I'm not sure why VR keeps coming back.

On 11/17/2017 at 12:31 PM, Penny Patton said:

It's pretty easy to get SL running much better than most residents have ever experienced. Yes, it requires optimizing content, but optimizing content isn't hard at all. The only reason SL content is so unoptimized is that LL has rarely done anything to encourage it and most people are completely unaware of why SL runs so poorly.

Look what happened when LL introduced the "jelly dolls" feature to derender avatars with excessively high draw weight. Sure, many people complained or simply turned off the feature, but others took notice. They didn't want their content to fall out of favour because it would lead to avatars being derendered, so they took steps to reduce the draw weight of their content. I recall one content creator in particular with a popular avatar attachment that originally added about 50k of draw weight to an avatar by itself. Before the Jelly Dolls feature they rebuffed any complaints about this. However, shortly after the Jelly Dolls feature was released they relented and released an optimized version of the attachment that looked identical but was much easier to render and had a much lower draw weight impact.

Discourage unoptimized content and content creators will produce better content.

And my mainland home in SL looks so good that when I post raw, unedited screenshots, people think the shots are from a videogame, not SL. And yet I get higher framerates at my home than I do anywhere else in SL, just because of simple optimization.

Black Dragon Client is really good for photo and video creation.  I'm sure you've heard of it.  Nice pictures.  I'm sure you would love my city.

On 11/17/2017 at 1:45 PM, AnyaJurelle said:

It's funny but my fps in SL is far, far, better than what I get WoW atm - go figure.

Getting 80-140 fps despite my graphics card being 3 years old - but only since I realized it was still factory set to Intel and not Nvidia, so I fixed that in a hurry. Big difference. Huge. Massive.

I run an Nvidia GTX 970 video card and still use the intel i7 4770k overclocked to 4.7ghz.  I'm rocking 32gb of memory power and my Internet speed is between 900-1000Mbps.  I get 50-60 FPS.  In wow, I get 120-140fps.  I'm not sure what kind of computer you have but to me that sounds like defying the laws of computers when it comes to SL.  FPS doesn't mean anything in SL as it does for WoW.  I know people that run under 30FPS with no lag while others with higher FPS lag.

On 11/17/2017 at 2:19 PM, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Isn't anything over about 30 fps just giving you bragging rights?

Not really.  The human eye can see only up to 30FPS.  The human brain knows pass 30.  Minecraft is a good example to use.  Play minecraft without mods.  You'll get the max fps your computer allows.  In my case, non modded minecraft is around 500fps which is absurd.  The game is so smooth, it makes me want to play it without mods.  When I add around 150 to 200 mods, the game jumps down to 100fps sometimes less.  I notice how smooth it was before until I added mods.  SO the higher FPS the better for gameplay.  Remember, the eye only sees 30 but the brain knows pass 30.  FYI, low FPS in SL can cause serious health issues to your hands.  I know all computers can but SL is no joke when it lags.  The struggle that you get in SL with lag the mind tells the hands to push further and typing becomes literally a struggle.  I've nearly lost a pinky because of the ALT+CTRL feature to cam around.  LL doesn't provide keybinds.

15 hours ago, Phoebe Avro said:

Ebbe Linden did say he hoped all SL residents would move over to Sansar when he first talked about it in these very forums, but then again I don't think LL knew what Sansar would be and still don't.

As to prims moving , I have seen prim drift many years ago on the Mainland but not on my private sim, some times lag can make an object move back a bit when your moving it.

LL was riding the VR hype.  Honestly!  There is no hype with VR.  It's dead again.  I'm sure it will surface up again in the future.  I believe LL intentions are to bring everyone from SL to Sansar.  When HELL literally freezes over that will happen.

The stupidity that is behind LL makes me believe monkey's run this company.  Excuse me, monkey's are probably more intelligent than the LL team.  I have spent 14 years in SL and watched it grow.  Every single year I've asked myself why they don't do this and do that.  The possibilities of investing in a Second Life 2.  Bigger, better graphics and a better approach to living.  \$300 a month to own a sim.  It costs roughly around less than \$50 USD to probably have a sim a month.  LL makes about \$250 in their pockets.  I don't use my sim for profit.  Why am I paying \$300 a month?  I pay \$15 a month for wow.  I probably hold up more space on blizzard servers than I do in SL.  Again, why \$300 a month?  Maybe it's time to have a non-profit sim.

You've had 14 years to figure it out.  Let's go back to WoW.  If you played vanilla and see what it is today you'll understand.  They went back and saw the mistakes they made and corrected them.  What have you done to correct SL.  Yes.  SL is broken.  It's broken before, it's broken now and it will forever be broken.  I should never get lag with 30,000 prims.  That's 30,000 items.  You make me pay \$300 for 30,000 items.  I believe I've earned a server that can handle 30,000 items with no lag and probably have 60 people on the sim.  Get it right LL.  Sansar was not the answer.  Second Life 2 was.  The transition would be smooth and the users would be happy.

In the end.  I feel limited to what I can do with SL.  "14 years later" #sadface

Side note: I'm a city builder.  It's my passion in SL.  My vision to create a metropolis has come to an halt because of sim crossing.  If you gave me the ability to actually expand the sim, I would build a game within a game.  Can you imagine driving from sim 1 to sim 20?  Can you imagine flying from sim sim 1 to sim 30?  The dreams of a young man 14 years ago never came true.  I still can't believe how these "Pilots" in SL fly from airport to airport.  It takes literally 3 seconds from one corner of the sim to the other diagonal.  Where is the fun in that?

Edited by Lord Derryth

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While I can see why you as a builder want to be able to make you sim huge, I do wonder how many folk want to play on a sim that large. Sims are sparsely populated as it is and making it that large just makes it even harder to find folk to interact with.

As to wow, you do know they are now thinking of launching vanilla servers to try and claw back some of the users they lost with their fixes?

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5 hours ago, KanryDrago said:

While I can see why you as a builder want to be able to make you sim huge, I do wonder how many folk want to play on a sim that large. Sims are sparsely populated as it is and making it that large just makes it even harder to find folk to interact with.

As to wow, you do know they are now thinking of launching vanilla servers to try and claw back some of the users they lost with their fixes?

The classic servers are because we asked for it.  I've been in wow for 12 years now since vanilla.  The game has taken a direction that is bad for the company.  Bringing back the classics is the smartest thing to do.  Granted it will be a year or 2 from now.  The only good thing blizzard did was fix their infrastructure and changed their coding.  They were young and new to the business.  The mistakes they made are not corrected in a sense of gameplay and looks.  As for the game itself, they took a bad direction.

A sim in SL is not that big to be honest.  I've set my sim up where you TP to a HQ base and pick up missions from quest givers.  They lead you around the city and it's not that hard to get lost.  There are also walkie talkies that can be used on sims for everyone to communicate no matter how far you are.  That keeps people communicating.  There are no teleports nor are there any teleports to heads.  Flying is disabled so you get the full experience of the Borderland/Mad Max scenery.  Having 4 sims connected would be the ultimate setup in my mind.

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