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This topic again ... At least this time the topic wasn't broached by someone utterly convinced that such a thing not only happens in SL but trying to play off an utterly controllable situation as an example of such.

SL is essentially an interactive graphical chat system at its core. It's a program and unless someone has taken control of your computer you have the option of closing it same as with your web browser of choice.

You simply cannot be raped by anyone using SL.

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5 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Well, gosh, if I can make up my own definitions for things, then likely lots of things can exist.  This from the article:
    "The definition of 'rape' is to steal a person's innocence without their consent"
I only find such statements in opinion writing pieces, not in any source that is consider valid for word and phrase definitions.

 

I never disputed that online emotional / verbal abuse happens. As to the 'mental rape' mentioned in that one article, that is still an emotional / verbal abuse thing.  

I'm disputing that 'physical rape' is possible in an online environment. 

 

I think you should not take it seriously when "hub pages" gives a definition, because it simply is not a scientific magazine. There is criteria that makes the difference between all-public magazines and scientific ones. So you are right, definitions like this have absolutely no value. Also, I never said that the rape is physical. Of course it is virtual, but the emotions are real. 

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1 hour ago, Syo Emerald said:

You can't be raped in Second Life. There is no physical interaction, everything that happens is virtual in a non-realistic graphic environment in which you have all control. Not even your avatar can be raped, because nobody can force you unwillingly on a poseball and you can block anyone that starts to harasse you. Comparing anything of what happens inside Second Life with the real world is repulsive.

You said it "that starts to harass you". Some people are more fragile than others and even the start of a harassment can affect them. 

Why the harsh word "repulsive" ? So you think that online bullying doesn't exist ? People that are bullied on Facebook can also block their bullies. That doesn't mean that the bullying didn't happen. People can harass you on SL just like on Facebook. 

Just because you have all control doesn't mean that others do. Sometimes the victim simply doesn't know how to respond to the violence, so they just stand there. 

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8 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

This topic again ... At least this time the topic wasn't broached by someone utterly convinced that such a thing not only happens in SL but trying to play off an utterly controllable situation as an example of such.

SL is essentially an interactive graphical chat system at its core. It's a program and unless someone has taken control of your computer you have the option of closing it same as with your web browser of choice.

You simply cannot be raped by anyone using SL.

I am also studying violence of any type. Do you suggest violence doesn't happen on SL ? 

You don't know how people react when being the victims of violence. Some may shut down the computer, some may just freeze because they are scared. 

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Hey, BatGirlMeow. Ask about non-consensual vampire bites, too :)

https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/412700-vampire-bite-with-no-warning-or-knowledge/

 

and here is a recently closed thread about  privacy and predators.  Not much on violence, tho.

https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/411113-my-land-lady-is-ok-with-perving/

 

And in the end I'll leave with this: pictures and words are our only weapons in SL. Nothing in SL has ever made me fear for my safety

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16 minutes ago, BatGirlMeow said:

 Of course it is virtual, but the emotions are real. 

As someone that has been physically raped IRL, a virtual scene absolutely in no way is a valid comparison.

We currently live in a world where everyone seems to be offended by the slightest thing and people think that nobody should ever experience a bad feeling and some folks even claim emotional abuse because some stupid politician made a general racist remark.  I suppose those people might think that they could actually be raped in SL, but in reality, they are either dealing with inworld sexual & emotional harassment or they have some emotional & mental issues.  While the former is not something that anyone should have to deal with, it still does not compare to RL rape.

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Just now, LittleMe Jewell said:

As someone that has been physically raped IRL, a virtual scene absolutely in no way is a valid comparison.

We currently live in a world where everyone seems to be offended by the slightest thing and people think that nobody should ever experience a bad feeling and some folks even claim emotional abuse because some stupid politician made a general racist remark.  I suppose those people might think that they could actually be raped in SL, but in reality, they are either dealing with inworld sexual & emotional harassment or they have some emotional & mental issues.  While the former is not something that anyone should have to deal with, it still does not compare to RL rape.

I am sorry to hear that. 

You are right, but again, we are not here to judge. Yes, there are people who have a different or distorted image of reality. This is what I am trying to study. 

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I had a reply started to a recent response by the OP. Deleted it when I saw the response to Syo and myself.

Point blank here: The present legal definitions for what you are supposedly doing a study on do not presently include VWs and just barely cover text messages and social media - country/state/province depending on the latter bit.

Your attempt to use Facebook as an example does you no favors whatsoever as you have the option from the very beginning to control who can so much as message you on top of controlling who can see what information you provide.

While you do not have the same level of control within SL you still hold all the cards. Survivors of actual rape have a bit of wiggle room when it comes to the SL equivalent as it can indeed trigger memories of their experience. Some will go so far as to equate the trigger to the actual act while others recognize the very real difference.

Without being too much of an arse with this next bit I can only say the following: If you have never experienced a particular act of violence - rape included - in real life then you have no idea whatsoever what the actual emotional effect on you is. None.

I've been on the receiving end of both physical and emotional abuse in real life, of all people from someone I loved very much at the time. This has affected how I interact with people in SL on the rare occasion, especially given the way I chose to use SL.

Despite this I still retain the ability to tell the difference between what is real (be it physical or mental) and what simply isn't.

Can you be harassed in SL? Yes you can. Can someone with a truly toxic agenda and a vendetta bully you and cause you emotional and mental discomfort and damage? Yes they can.

What they simply cannot do is remove all consent/choice from you outside of highly illegal activities.

I really hate how this is going to sound but I cannot think of another way to put this, I really cannot: If you freeze up when confronted by something in an environment where you are in no real danger then perhaps SL is not for you, let alone the internet in general.

Now perhaps my own views are a bit skewed from years of being involved in Role Play both online and offline but it seriously seems to me that there are far too many people these days that cannot tell the difference between what is real and what is not.

... Best to end this here as I really do not think anyone really wants to read a rant concerning the present generations and their skewed view concerning what information should and should not be shared publicly over social media.

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2 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

I had a reply started to a recent response by the OP. Deleted it when I saw the response to Syo and myself.

Point blank here: The present legal definitions for what you are supposedly doing a study on do not presently include VWs and just barely cover text messages and social media - country/state/province depending on the latter bit.

Your attempt to use Facebook as an example does you no favors whatsoever as you have the option from the very beginning to control who can so much as message you on top of controlling who can see what information you provide.

While you do not have the same level of control within SL you still hold all the cards. Survivors of actual rape have a bit of wiggle room when it comes to the SL equivalent as it can indeed trigger memories of their experience. Some will go so far as to equate the trigger to the actual act while others recognize the very real difference.

Without being too much of an arse with this next bit I can only say the following: If you have never experienced a particular act of violence - rape included - in real life then you have no idea whatsoever what the actual emotional effect on you is. None.

I've been on the receiving end of both physical and emotional abuse in real life, of all people from someone I loved very much at the time. This has affected how I interact with people in SL on the rare occasion, especially given the way I chose to use SL.

Despite this I still retain the ability to tell the difference between what is real (be it physical or mental) and what simply isn't.

Can you be harassed in SL? Yes you can. Can someone with a truly toxic agenda and a vendetta bully you and cause you emotional and mental discomfort and damage? Yes they can.

What they simply cannot do is remove all consent/choice from you outside of highly illegal activities.

I really hate how this is going to sound but I cannot think of another way to put this, I really cannot: If you freeze up when confronted by something in an environment where you are in no real danger then perhaps SL is not for you, let alone the internet in general.

Now perhaps my own views are a bit skewed from years of being involved in Role Play both online and offline but it seriously seems to me that there are far too many people these days that cannot tell the difference between what is real and what is not.

... Best to end this here as I really do not think anyone really wants to read a rant concerning the present generations and their skewed view concerning what information should and should not be shared publicly over social media.

I am sorry to hear all of that. 

But I do not agree that you have to experience a certain type of violence just to understand it and do research about. Do you think that all therapists experienced every type of violence that their patients talk to the about ? No. And still they are here to help. Now this is my case, I am in school to be a therapist. 

Don't judge other people just because they have a different perception of reality than you. Yes, there are people who cannot dissociate te two. This is exactly what I am studying. You said it, you can get mental image in SL. We both agree that maybe this game is not for those people who experience this, but they don't necessarily know it and I will not judge, simply observe. 

You are absolutely right again, people cannot tell difference between what is real and what is not. But trauma occurs. 

 

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5 minutes ago, BatGirlMeow said:

I am sorry to hear all of that. 

But I do not agree that you have to experience a certain type of violence just to understand it and do research about. Do you think that all therapists experienced every type of violence that their patients talk to the about ? No. And still they are here to help. Now this is my case, I am in school to be a therapist. 

Don't judge other people just because they have a different perception of reality than you. Yes, there are people who cannot dissociate te two. This is exactly what I am studying. You said it, you can get mental image in SL. We both agree that maybe this game is not for those people who experience this, but they don't necessarily know it and I will not judge, simply observe. 

You are absolutely right again, people cannot tell difference between what is real and what is not. But trauma occurs. 

 

I said nothing about being unable to research it if you have not experienced it. I said that unless you have actually experienced such a thing in real life then you have no idea what your own response will truly be. There is a difference and it is one that makes therapy for a wide range of things possible.

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21 minutes ago, BatGirlMeow said:

Yes, there are people who have a different or distorted image of reality. This is what I am trying to study

That may be, but most of the responses in this thread are pretty much based on your opening statement:

21 hours ago, BatGirlMeow said:

I am conducting a study on violence (and more precisely rape) in Second Life.

 

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To everyone who felt offended by the word "rape". I apologize ; I only used it because it appeared as so in the scientific article on which I rely for my mémoire. 

We all agree on one thing : there is no physical rape on SL. So I will refer to sexual harassement. 

The main topic remains still any type of violence and the consequences of it. 

 

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Come back when you have your Methodology worked out and have tightened up you Operational Definitions.

 

ETA  depictions of violence

Edited by Derek Torvalar
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Just now, Derek Torvalar said:

Come back when you have your Methodology worked out and have tightened up you Operational Definitions.

My definitions are ok. 

But when the victim calls it "rape" it takes time to make them understand that it is not the case. This is why I used this word. 

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Just now, BatGirlMeow said:

My definitions are ok. 

But when the victim calls it "rape" it takes time to make them understand that it is not the case. This is why I used this word. 

No, they are not. 

Otherwise you would not be running into the problems you are here in this thread.

If I were your thesis advisor we would be having long talk about your choices here.

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2 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

That may be, but most of the responses in this thread are pretty much based on your opening statement:

 

Well... If someone comes to me and says "I got raped in SL" should I tell them from the start that it is not the case ? It takes time to put limits between reality and virtual reality. 

I am still learning, you know. It just seemed inappropriate to start a topic by saying "I know your rape is not real, but hey, can we talk about it anyway?" 

I changed the topic's title. 

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Just now, Derek Torvalar said:

No, they are not. 

Otherwise you would not be running into the problems you are here in this thread.

If I were your thesis advisor we would be having long talk about your choices here.

There is are a lot of different opinions. 

Look, I didn't invent the fact. The fact talked about rape, so I took it as it was. I am talking about representations, since everything on SL is about representations. 

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What fact?

If your patient seems to be unable to differentiate between reality, ie rape, and a computer program, then which direction do you think the therapy should take?

 

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1 minute ago, Derek Torvalar said:

What fact?

If your patient seems to be unable to differentiate between reality, ie rape, and a computer program, then which direction do you think the therapy should take?

 

We are talking about a scientific article in which a SL player stated that she was raped in this game. You didn't even read all the discussion... 

It depends on every patient. You clearly have no psychological knowledge since you ask me that general question. It's ok. 

 

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4 minutes ago, BatGirlMeow said:

We are talking about a scientific article in which a SL player stated that she was raped in this game. You didn't even read all the discussion... 

It depends on every patient. You clearly have no psychological knowledge since you ask me that general question. It's ok. 

 

LMFAO

I did read the entire thread.

Post the article.

You do not know anything about me. Therefore you do not realize the grievous error you have made in judging me. LMAO!

 

ETA Given that, how the hell do you intend to be able to ever interpret your findings for veracity? LOL

Edited by Derek Torvalar

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Just now, Derek Torvalar said:

LMFAO

I did read the entire thread.

Post the article.

You do not know anything about me. Therefore you do not realize the grievous error you have made in judging me. LMAO!

I already posted it. 

You are visibly a troll :) I judged you because of that uninformed question. Someone that simply asks how the therapy should be lead when they clearly have no additional information on the personal background of the patient is someone who doesn't have much knowledge on the issue. 

 

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Just now, BatGirlMeow said:

I already posted it. 

You are visibly a troll :) I judged you because of that uninformed question. Someone that simply asks how the therapy should be lead when they clearly have no additional information on the personal background of the patient is someone who doesn't have much knowledge on the issue. 

 

What personal info will you hope to have on the participants of your research?

Go and talk to your advisor.

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Just now, Derek Torvalar said:

What personal info will you hope to have on the participants of your research?

Go and talk to your advisor.

Do you realize that I will not share my methodology on the internet at this point of the research, do you ? 

My advisor, a PhD herself, approves it all. You are just being ridiculous and I am ridiculous myself by continuing to answer to you. 

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Are you sure you posted the article and the journal it came from?

Not that that really matters at this point.

You might think about changing the title of your research to something like. 'Exercises in  futility; Ridiculous notions of ridiculous research projects undertaken on ridiculous topics in ridiculous computer environments'

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