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Monica Querrien

Survey for Belleza mesh body wearers

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Hello everyone! My friend Velvet made a survey for those who own Belleza mesh bodies. She wants to see how people feel about the amount of choices they have for Belleza, and to eventually advocate to designers to create more sizes for Belleza bodies.

If you or someone you know has a Belleza mesh body, please share and/or fill out the following survey. Thanks! :)

https://goo.gl/forms/RvH2scwP1mTHJImG2

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I took a look at this survey, and it seems your friend is wanting the survey because she is finding a lot of Maitreya exclusive mesh and not a lot of Belleza.

I find this odd.  I have both Maitreya and Belleza bodies ( I wear Isis).  Guess I find it odd because I have no problem finding loads of clothing that includes both Belleza and Maitreya.  Granted there are some designers who only make for Maitreya, but honestly I rarely come across those.  Everything I have bought to date has has both in the package.  I make clothing from mesh shells I purchase and texture with my own textures,  and again I rarely run into a situation where Belleza sizes are not included so everything I make and put out to my stores has Belleza in it (with the exception of one mesh creator who has stopped making shells in the Venus size).  My thoughts are that if I can't make for at least Belleza, Maitreya and slink,  I would not even consider purchasing a mesh shell to work with.  I have begun to learn how to make my own mesh, but it is slow and haven't gotten very far yet, but I will say that of all the kits out there to make mesh clothing, Belleza has proven to be the easiest to follow, with the best help and instructions, no missing info everything needed is there including a video.  So I can see no reason why mesh clothing makers would not take advantage of that.  And from what I have seen the majority do.  

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13 minutes ago, Tazzie Tuque said:

I took a look at this survey, and it seems your friend is wanting the survey because she is finding a lot of Maitreya exclusive mesh and not a lot of Belleza.

I find this odd.  I have both Maitreya and Belleza bodies ( I wear Isis).  Guess I find it odd because I have no problem finding loads of clothing that includes both Belleza and Maitreya.  Granted there are some designers who only make for Maitreya, but honestly I rarely come across those.  Everything I have bought to date has has both in the package.  I make clothing from mesh shells I purchase and texture with my own textures,  and again I rarely run into a situation where Belleza sizes are not included so everything I make and put out to my stores has Belleza in it (with the exception of one mesh creator who has stopped making shells in the Venus size).  My thoughts are that if I can't make for at least Belleza, Maitreya and slink,  I would not even consider purchasing a mesh shell to work with.  I have begun to learn how to make my own mesh, but it is slow and haven't gotten very far yet, but I will say that of all the kits out there to make mesh clothing, Belleza has proven to be the easiest to follow, with the best help and instructions, no missing info everything needed is there including a video.  So I can see no reason why mesh clothing makers would not take advantage of that.  And from what I have seen the majority do.  

I go to events and do a lot of shopping and I have noticed so many outfits are for just Maitreya mostly...so what I'm saying if there are 30(just using a number) designers that do just Maitreya, I want Belleza to be along with them and their are several that is exclusive just for Maitreya

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Belleza took too long to do an update in the year that Maitreye came out - and so lost a LOT of customers in that year. They also locked down approval of new merchants for that entire year... and so lost a LOT of merchants...

Everytime Belleza puts out an update everyone sees how vastly superior it is compared to other choices... but then they go silent and don't talk to the community. I'm not even sure if the Belleza team are SL users or just outsiders selling to us. They are never 'around' at events and social gatherings and so on (the same can be said of Maitreya - it's owner I don't think uses SL at all).

Now with Bento... Maitreya is again being given a year to be first... and Belleza isn't putting anything out... and people are drifting away, despite the inferior quality of the competition - that competition has more features...

 

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I don't doubt that Belleza been dragging their feet and then after seeing Slink HG over take them wasn't good to them I'm sure. But I enjoy my Belleza body and I'm trying to get more designers interested in making more clothing for them. I chose to do it this way hoping to et positive feed back and above all get that survey full. I'm not trying to throw any blame on designer or Belleza I'm just trying to get erratic and so many other designers to make Belleza clothing. And Pussycat I'm sure you could be right but lets just hope thing changes>

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14 hours ago, Tazzie Tuque said:

I took a look at this survey, and it seems your friend is wanting the survey because she is finding a lot of Maitreya exclusive mesh and not a lot of Belleza.

So ... it's a "survey" that only accepts a single opinion?

Seems legit.

 

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1 hour ago, Rhonda Huntress said:

So ... it's a "survey" that only accepts a single opinion?

Seems legit.

 

It's a survey (no quotes needed) geared towards a targeted audience - those who have Belleza mesh bodies.

What would you have liked to seen in the survey?

Besides general information, the survey asks questions about where they shop, do they have to use other mesh bodies to be able to wear the clothing that they want, and would they be interested in getting more clothing for their Belleza body. So how is that a single opinion?

 

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It seems more like a filter than a survey to me.  Thus the quotes.

Rather than focus on a single product and assume everyone who bought it is frustrated, why not ask which products someone owns, what lead them to make those choices and what problems they face or options they would like to have.

In short, don't assume the problem one person has is a problem for everyone.  Also , don't assume the problem is specific to the one product you are targeting.

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Do not assume that this survey was created in a vacuum.

There have already been surveys that ask about a variety of mesh bodies, so why would Velvet duplicate what has already been done if she wanted to learn about specifics? Maybe you did not get to see those surveys?

This survey wanted to take one issue that has already been established, and to further investigate it.

Most people buy mesh bodies based on which ones are pleasing to them. Those who have not found one that they like, still do not have mesh bodies. In this survey it addresses whether people who liked Belleza went and bought another body so they could wear more clothing. I am sure there are other people with mesh bodies other than Maitreya will feel the same, but the survey's focus is not on those people.

If eventually Velvet wants to take the data from this survey to Belleza, why would they want to know about issues people with other bodies have? If she wanted to take her results to a content creator to advocate for clothing for Belleza bodies, why would she need data from people who are outside the scope of her focus? If based on her data, people are generally satisfied with the choices that they have, then nothing else needs to be done, and she will have a huge list of stores where she can shop.

It sounds like you wanted a general survey, when this survey is specific to issues/topics previously discussed. It is not a filter, but a focus.

 

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The amount of choices are OK for Belleza. The problem usually lies with events like fairs. There’s been a couple times I went to a big fair like Collabor8 and 90% of the clothing was only for Maitreya. Usually though I don’t have that problem but it has happened. 

There are a couple of designers that I can’t wear because they are maitreya exclusive. Emory, Erratic and Foxes come to mind. But they all make things I can find elsewhere, so I do.

The designer in me understands why so many designers only make clothing for one or two bodies. If you’re designing clothing by yourself modeling and rigging one item is time consuming enough. Let alone making adjustments for two or more other bodies, burnout is on the horizon. And let’s face it, putting out new items is how you stay relevant in SL. So I think designers stick with the popular choice.

There are some fairs like one of those Fantasy fairs, the costumes are almost always for Maitreya. So you know what? I stopped going to those. And you know what else? Those fairs that cater to one body never seem as full as the other ones that cater to all the bodies. I think designers have keyed in on that for the most part.

I think surveys have started this problem. One thing about surveys is they never take a sample of all of SL. They take a sample of people that tend to read blogs and those users tend to wear Maitreya because most bloggers tend to wear it.  I blame surveys for this situation to begin with.

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As a designer, the work to do rig for each body is the same, while the weighting is the same on several of the bodies the geometry is not. 

Maitreya - 1 body

Belleza - 3 bodies

eBody - was one, now is 2

Eve - 2 bodies

Tonic - 2 bodies

TMP - just one - but how many people wear TMP

So, 1 body for the best seller - 1 times the work. I understand why folks design for Maitreya alone.

 

 

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On 10/24/2017 at 11:48 PM, Monica Querrien said:

 She wants to see how people feel about the amount of choices they have for Belleza, and to eventually advocate to designers to create more sizes for Belleza bodies.

You have this the wrong way around.

A creator asking for the dev kit... frequently gets ignored.  So will just create for whichever kits they can get without jumping through hoops.

YOU... the mesh body customers need to pressure the people YOU bought the closed system mesh body from to persuade them to make the kits more freely available.

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34 minutes ago, Sassy Romano said:

You have this the wrong way around.

A creator asking for the dev kit... frequently gets ignored.  So will just create for whichever kits they can get without jumping through hoops.

YOU... the mesh body customers need to pressure the people YOU bought the closed system mesh body from to persuade them to make the kits more freely available.

I already explained to her about how the mesh body creators go through stages of not releasing kits to the public. So she went there first. And she said that Belleza told her that content creators need to apply. So nope not wrong way around.

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If I have it correct....the kits can be applied for from the designer to create clothing for Belleza. But somewhere along the lines some of those designers are either not getting the application or ignoring it. This is why I am doing this survey....to show designers that the lovers of Belleza is unhappy with the lack of some stores not making clothes. I've read the comments about this post and yes when you go to a event you will see how Maitreya only clothes rule> And I shop a lot of events,I can post designers that does Maitreya ony but that will be a long list. So I'm asking all that care to do the survey.

https://goo.gl/forms/RvH2scwP1mTHJImG2

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1 hour ago, Sassy Romano said:

You have this the wrong way around.

A creator asking for the dev kit... frequently gets ignored.  So will just create for whichever kits they can get without jumping through hoops.

YOU... the mesh body customers need to pressure the people YOU bought the closed system mesh body from to persuade them to make the kits more freely available.

Belleza have a application to get the device kit

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6 hours ago, VelvetCush said:

Belleza have a application to get the device kit

Yes and it's a pain in the ass, time takes weeks, only goes to accounts with a .gmail address.  Usual details on the page about "we may not contact you if you're not successful" etc.

This is the issue that i'm describing and it's perpetuated across all the mesh bodies.  If YOU want the clothes, as I have pointed out, YOU the customers need to pester the mesh body creator kits to make their dev kits FREELY available and not maintain restrictive practices.

Stop assuming that creators "Just ask for a kit and poof there it is".  It's not like that and any time that a dev kit is a pain to get, there's your interest in that body gone as a creator.

What you should be offering is a survey that asks how many creators are asking for dev kits and being ignored or how long it takes from application to get a dev kit, that might open your eyes a bit more about the process.  Again, it's the mesh body creators that need pressure, not the creators who may wish to create.

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Ok I need to say something here in fairness to the body makers.  IN the past there have been problems, yes like that long time Belleza took to get their body updated and no kits were issued during that time.. BUT  and here it is!  I am a designer, I wanted to make mesh but I am just only learning although I have been making other clothing for 12 years... I applied for all the kits that are out there including Belleza, and got a very quick response and acceptance.. In fact the Belleza is the best kit out there.. good instructions, excellent information and weights etc.. they even give you a video to help you get it right..  I am still mastering rigging but I can tell you now, the first outfit/dress or whatever I do complete will be Belleza, simply because it is THE best kit out there.. and contrary to what is being said.. not all that hard o get..  I mean they gave me one, and I have by no means proven myself as a mesh maker lol.

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3 hours ago, Sassy Romano said:

Yes and it's a pain in the ass, time takes weeks, only goes to accounts with a .gmail address.  Usual details on the page about "we may not contact you if you're not successful" etc.

This is the issue that i'm describing and it's perpetuated across all the mesh bodies.  If YOU want the clothes, as I have pointed out, YOU the customers need to pester the mesh body creator kits to make their dev kits FREELY available and not maintain restrictive practices.

Stop assuming that creators "Just ask for a kit and poof there it is".  It's not like that and any time that a dev kit is a pain to get, there's your interest in that body gone as a creator.

What you should be offering is a survey that asks how many creators are asking for dev kits and being ignored or how long it takes from application to get a dev kit, that might open your eyes a bit more about the process.  Again, it's the mesh body creators that need pressure, not the creators who may wish to create.

Let's be clear...this survey is partly based on past surveys where it was determined that there was a relatively small user base for Belleza. Content creators used the results from those surveys to justify not making the clothing for these bodies.

Throughout the time that mesh bodies have been in place, pretty much every major mesh body had issues with their kit - either it was not widely handed out, or it was hard to use and did not produce desirable results. I have been following this in places where content creators talk about which kit is hard to get and/or hard to use.

If there is a significant consumer base that wants the clothing, then you can advocate to both the mesh body creator AND the content creators that make the clothing to work together so that clothing can be made.

Now what she can do is to let Belleza know your concerns, and see what they say. But as I said before, Velvet is only saying what the Belleza reps told her - that content creators need to apply. So how is that an assumption? I think it's you that is making assumptions.

This issue is multi-faceted, it's not as simple as doing one thing or another. You have to start somewhere, and it's easier to do things when you have a number of united people that feel similarly.

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On ‎10‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 4:00 AM, Sassy Romano said:

Yes and it's a pain in the ass, time takes weeks, only goes to accounts with a .gmail address.  Usual details on the page about "we may not contact you if you're not successful" etc.

This is the issue that i'm describing and it's perpetuated across all the mesh bodies.  If YOU want the clothes, as I have pointed out, YOU the customers need to pester the mesh body creator kits to make their dev kits FREELY available and not maintain restrictive practices.

Stop assuming that creators "Just ask for a kit and poof there it is".  It's not like that and any time that a dev kit is a pain to get, there's your interest in that body gone as a creator.

What you should be offering is a survey that asks how many creators are asking for dev kits and being ignored or how long it takes from application to get a dev kit, that might open your eyes a bit more about the process.  Again, it's the mesh body creators that need pressure, not the creators who may wish to create.

Sassy is correct.

There have been a number of times I've gone to mesh body creators (and in the past, mesh body parts) and asked for the dev kit to make something so I could put it up for sale.

Instead of giving me the dev kit, I was told that I'd have to apply, and I'd only be approved if I had a successful clothing store.

So if you can't find stuff for a given body, go complain to the creator of said body and tell them to put their dev kit in their store where anyone can get it, and stop being elitist schmucks.

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The best thing to do is to have the kit available to grab right from the mainstore. I don't know why some creators make this hard and have to go through a weird process just to get a kit. Successful creators make kits freely available. Often it's not the creator you have to deal with to get the kit, its another content creator who may or may not be the best content creator and it's in their best interests for competition NOT to have the kit. This happened to me years ago with a Slink CSR. 1) It streamlines the process and you don't have to wait for someone to be online and review your application. 2) Only people that want to make something would even be interested in the kit, so why not just let them?

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On 10/29/2017 at 8:10 AM, janetosilio said:

The best thing to do is to have the kit available to grab right from the mainstore. I don't know why some creators make this hard and have to go through a weird process just to get a kit. Successful creators make kits freely available. Often it's not the creator you have to deal with to get the kit, its another content creator who may or may not be the best content creator and it's in their best interests for competition NOT to have the kit. This happened to me years ago with a Slink CSR. 1) It streamlines the process and you don't have to wait for someone to be online and review your application. 2) Only people that want to make something would even be interested in the kit, so why not just let them?

Iunno, I can understand the hesitation.  It's not like an applier dev kit which is rather riskless to put out...rather the stuff in a Mesh Maker dev kit can actually be used to help rip a mesh. It's all right in there, weighting and all. If you're good at UV mapping, you just have to fix or undo anything they did, like punching holes into the mesh. The only thing that really protects them is brand loyalty and only putting the kit in the hands of folks they know are established.

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7 hours ago, Morcinna said:

Iunno, I can understand the hesitation.  It's not like an applier dev kit which is rather riskless to put out...rather the stuff in a Mesh Maker dev kit can actually be used to help rip a mesh. It's all right in there, weighting and all. If you're good at UV mapping, you just have to fix or undo anything they did, like punching holes into the mesh. The only thing that really protects them is brand loyalty and only putting the kit in the hands of folks they know are established.

Yeah, but see here’s the thing. If someone is going to rip something, they’re going to rip it regardless of whether they have rigging info and skin weights. That’s not even going to slow them down. If someone who is up to no good wants a kit, they’re going to get the kit without applying for anything.

The only thing that stifles is other creators. There are certain things like “established” , only gives the kit to “quality creators” that’s all subjective, because again...who’s judging that? The only people that kind of process is going to stop is going to be people trying to do it the right way.

At the end of the day people are always going to take the road of least resistance. It’s human nature. It doesn’t matter how good your product is, and Belleza is hands down the best female mesh body. But why isn’t it the best selling body? Why doesn’t it have the most support? Because Maitreya made everything much easier: easier for the shopper and the third party creators. It all starts with creators wanting to support you. When you create obstacles to your product you start to create problems for yourself.

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