Avatar Height Restrictions on Adult Sims.

[ScottXRoxxs]

Hello, fellow users of SecondLife. 

I have a question since there has been a lot of speculation going around SecondLife, and I am not sure if some of you are familiar with it. Why have I been told that we have to be a certain height to enter adult sims, this being 5'7''+? Will it be implemented in the upcoming Terms of Service? Would I have to send in a ticket to SecondLife to ask them? 

Would love to hear from everyone soon! Thank you! 

[Rolig Loon]

2 minutes ago, skirtsdown said:

There is FAR more significant variation in those measurements than there is in anatomical proportions and ratios. 

I agree, but the basic point is the same.  If the landowner is using height as the sole criterion for judging whether you belong there, you are stuck playing his game.    As we all know, life isn't fair.  Neither are a lot of the rules we apply to either other.  Because landowners have the exclusive right to decide who to allow -- whether they have stated rules or not -- all you can do is either adjust your height or go somewhere else.

[Alyona Su]

The issue is that people are so twitchy-finger on the AR button over "*****" that parcel and sim owners are paranoid about falling into the bullseye zone of the LL ban-hammer, etc. So they (rightly or wrongly) err on the *extreme* safe side. Okay, I get it. My look matches SkirtsDown very well. Yet I have heard boneheaded perverted sickos mumbling "Jailbait" when I arrive.

I put it into my picks: Hey: I'm just shy of 6 ft tall and refuse to wear ten-gallon boobs. If your sim rules say I'm to young-looking or too short them tell me politely and I'll leave politely. The truth is no single sim is THAT attractive that I'm willing to change my look just to see it. So I'll leave if that's what you want.

Edited March 22, 2018 by Alyona Su

[Chic Aeon]

I find that VERY HARD TO BELIEVE on the TOS level. 

ANY sim owner can make ANY rules they want for their own sim of course but I truly believe you were fed some misinformation.

Just "who" told you that? Someone official with Linden as their last name? If not, don't believe it unless it actually happens (and I would bet a few thousand lindens it does not).  For one thing there is no reason at all for this to be true. Height has very little to do with "age" which is what I suspect is the criteria here. 

 

 

[ScottXRoxxs]

20 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

I find that VERY HARD TO BELIEVE on the TOS level. 

ANY sim owner can make ANY rules they want for their own sim of course but I truly believe you were fed some misinformation.

Just "who" told you that? Someone official with Linden as their last name? If not, don't believe it unless it actually happens (and I would bet a few thousand lindens it does not).  For one thing there is no reason at all for this to be true. Height has very little to do with "age" which is what I suspect is the criteria here. 

 

 

No, that is not the criteria I am asking here, some people have been going ahead and saying that people who are not child avi's have to be that certain height, but until the Terms of Service "is" updated with this effective on it, I will keep my height as it is until then. Thank you for answering my question!

EDIT: The person was not an official Linden. They were another typical resident who apparently "knows" staff.

Edited October 17, 2017 by ScottXRoxxs

[Alwin Alcott]

38 minutes ago, ScottXRoxxs said:

 They were another typical resident who apparently "knows" staff.

never believe those... LL doesn't communicate that way.

[Chic Aeon]

1 hour ago, ScottXRoxxs said:

EDIT: The person was not an official Linden. They were another typical resident who apparently "knows" staff.

and I have a big bridge in New York I can sell you really REALLY cheap - LOL.    If they don't have a Linden last name, they have no credibility in my book :D.   

[Klytyna]

6 hours ago, ScottXRoxxs said:

some people have been going ahead and saying that people who are not child avi's have to be that certain height, but until the Terms of Service "is" updated with this effective on it, I will keep my height as it is until then

Many "Adult" rated parcels/regions, have minimum height requirements for entry. This isn't a ToS thing, it's a "they who pay the tier set the rules" thing.

The reasoning is really simple... Too many people with Kreepy-kid-Paedo-Bait avatars, trying to enter A rated areas, simply because the ToS allows them to, while ignoring the fact that the ToS also states that they may NOT participate in any A rated activities.

I've held "Sim Staff Boot/Ban" powers on A rated sims in the past, and had to deal with this sort of thing...

Somebody in what is very obviously a naked chile avatar, on an adult sim, demanding that they be allowed to stay and play because the "ToS says I can be here"...

Me: Sim rules no kid avis, please leave or change into an an adult avi

Kreepy Kid: ToS say I R hav rite to b here

Me: You have... 60... seconds to reach... minimum... safe... distance...

Kreepy: I r not kid, see i haz foot wigs, I R adult Hobbit!

Me: You have... 50... seconds to reach... minimum... safe... distance...

Kreepy: Avrage hite of wimmins r 5 fut 3 u kno, i r normul sized, u all r giants!

Me: You have... 40... seconds to reach... minimum... safe... distance...

Kreepy: I r alowd cos i r anime!

Me: You have... 30... Ahhhh hell with it... Please enjoy your complimentary "Thighboot of Banjection Suppository" *puntkick*

Kreepy: Aiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii... *splash*

Me: NEXT!

 

..

Typically, about 70% will whine for 55 seconds, then put on a grown up avi, 15% will whine for 55 seconds and leave, and 15% will while for the full 60 seconds and get dropkicked into the Beyond, still screaming about their "rights" under the ToS as they go.

Many A rated locations install scripted height checkers/kickers simply because losing the occasional short adult it less of a problem than having their sim investigated and possibly closed because there wasn't a sim-staff member on hand to ban a problem kid avi doing things they shouldn't have been doing.

6 hours ago, ScottXRoxxs said:

The person was not an official Linden. They were another typical resident who apparently "knows" staff.

Presumably they know "sim staff" that is the parcel/region owner or their appointed officers in a land group, who are FULLY entitled to boot you off the parcel for violations of the parcel rules set by the parcel owner.

 

Edited October 17, 2017 by Klytyna

[Love Zhaoying]

Jeeze, doesn't this discriminate against Tinies?

[Akasha Sternberg]

3 hours ago, Klytyna said:

Many "Adult" rated parcels/regions, have minimum height requirements for entry. This isn't a ToS thing, it's a "they who pay the tier set the rules" thing.

The reasoning is really simple... Too many people with Kreepy-kid-Paedo-Bait avatars, trying to enter A rated areas, simply because the ToS allows them to, while ignoring the fact that the ToS also states that they may NOT participate in any A rated activities.

I've held "Sim Staff Boot/Ban" powers on A rated sims in the past, and had to deal with this sort of thing...

Somebody in what is very obviously a naked chile avatar, on an adult sim, demanding that they be allowed to stay and play because the "ToS says I can be here"...

Me: Sim rules no kid avis, please leave or change into an an adult avi

Kreepy Kid: ToS say I R hav rite to b here

Me: You have... 60... seconds to reach... minimum... safe... distance...

Kreepy: I r not kid, see i haz foot wigs, I R adult Hobbit!

Me: You have... 50... seconds to reach... minimum... safe... distance...

Kreepy: Avrage hite of wimmins r 5 fut 3 u kno, i r normul sized, u all r giants!

Me: You have... 40... seconds to reach... minimum... safe... distance...

Kreepy: I r alowd cos i r anime!

Me: You have... 30... Ahhhh hell with it... Please enjoy your complimentary "Thighboot of Banjection Suppository" *puntkick*

Kreepy: Aiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii... *splash*

Me: NEXT!

 

..

Typically, about 70% will whine for 55 seconds, then put on a grown up avi, 15% will whine for 55 seconds and leave, and 15% will while for the full 60 seconds and get dropkicked into the Beyond, still screaming about their "rights" under the ToS as they go.

Many A rated locations install scripted height checkers/kickers simply because losing the occasional short adult it less of a problem than having their sim investigated and possibly closed because there wasn't a sim-staff member on hand to ban a problem kid avi doing things they shouldn't have been doing.

Presumably they know "sim staff" that is the parcel/region owner or their appointed officers in a land group, who are FULLY entitled to boot you off the parcel for violations of the parcel rules set by the parcel owner.

 

very much the same for me between 2011 and 13 on several occasions.

While you can be smaller and adult you appear more youthful and  you have it in RL - nowadays kids don´t always look their age. Now look at our avatars... At times Kasha looks in her 20s... If I style her cute she could pass as 18.... she IS 35 (I look older than her and I´m 3 days younger ffs XD). You just can´t ask for a legal ID in SL so they choose to be safe by setting a min height. Of course you can still look young while being higher but usually the smaller shapes automatically give that teen vibe. 

If they started to make exceptions...well... it would just not be fair so ... no exceptions... and bitching at it towards the staff (not even the owners) is just pointless... Better safe than sorry and there´s modifiable shapes... I have at least 8 versions of my standard one plus others

Kasha is 6ft ish in her standard shape  while I´m 5´5" ... just because in the previous years male avatars were around 7`and I didn´t want to end at their hip (a friend of mine called it walking roostersucker height ... she didn´t say rooster of course^^) . I went for a realistic difference which is usually between the nipples and the chin.

[Cindy Evanier]

44 minutes ago, Akasha Sternberg said:

Kasha is 6ft ish in her standard shape

weird isn't it.  8 years ago my 6 ft height was questioned everywhere and people bought me "not short I'm fun sized" t-shirts.  I haven't changed her height but these days she is considered tall against the majority of my friends.

[Akasha Sternberg]

15 minutes ago, Cindy Evanier said:

weird isn't it.  8 years ago my 6 ft height was questioned everywhere and people bought me "not short I'm fun sized" t-shirts.  I haven't changed her height but these days she is considered tall against the majority of my friends.

 hahahah oh bless yeah ^^

[Drake1 Nightfire]

6 hours ago, Klytyna said:

 

Me: You have... 60... seconds to reach... minimum... safe... distance...

 

I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

2 hours ago, Cindy Evanier said:

weird isn't it.  8 years ago my 6 ft height was questioned everywhere and people bought me "not short I'm fun sized" t-shirts.  I haven't changed her height but these days she is considered tall against the majority of my friends.

I started at 6'5" as thats my RL height... Almost 10 years later and i am STILL usually the shortest person in a club. I chuckle when some glamazon asks me if i am a kid av.. "Naah, you are just freakishly tall." 

[MrsSeren]

 

7 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

I started at 6'5" as thats my RL height... Almost 10 years later and i am STILL usually the shortest person in a club. I chuckle when some glamazon asks me if i am a kid av.. "Naah, you are just freakishly tall." 

I get same issue, I'm 5ft 9 and I work for a club as hostess and host manager yet still one of shortest members of staff yet if anyone don't like then tough I ain't changing my pixels as I like them as they are!

[Callum Meriman]

On 10/17/2017 at 2:45 PM, ScottXRoxxs said:

Why have I been told that we have to be a certain height to enter adult sims, this being 5'7''+?

For a long time I banned people over 170cm (5'7" in american measurements) on one of my sims. Some of the reactions were ... interesting to say the least.

[Lindal Kidd]

On 10/18/2017 at 5:52 PM, Callum Meriman said:

For a long time I banned people over 170cm (5'7" in american measurements) on one of my sims. Some of the reactions were ... interesting to say the least.

If I encountered that, I'd just change my hover height to fit under your bar.  Nyahh! 

[Akasha Sternberg]

On 18.10.2017 at 11:52 PM, Callum Meriman said:

For a long time I banned people over 170cm (5'7" in american measurements) on one of my sims. Some of the reactions were ... interesting to say the least.

...wow.... that excludes a LOT of ppl .. with which reason if I may ask? Just cos you can and you don´t like the average height being so tall in SL?

[Nalates Urriah]

11 hours ago, Akasha Sternberg said:

...wow.... that excludes a LOT of ppl .. with which reason if I may ask? Just cos you can and you don´t like the average height being so tall in SL?

mmmm... reverse discrimination for all the banning of short people?

At 5-10 I often am not even nipple high to many... with heels 6-0 ... 6-2... I may still need a ladder to kiss...

[Syo Emerald]

On 18.10.2017 at 11:52 PM, Callum Meriman said:

For a long time I banned people over 170cm (5'7" in american measurements) on one of my sims. Some of the reactions were ... interesting to say the least.

In real life, that would exclude the majority of men.

[Chaser Zaks]

There is no high restriction in the Terms of Service, who ever is telling you that is telling you a load of rubbish.

In fact, child avatars are allowed on adult sims, provided they are not within the vicinity of sexual content.

Deciding if someone is using a child avatar is and should always be done on a case by case basis. Although this may not be the same procedure as LL, I use it when moderating sims:

• Is the avatar smaller than the average adult and does not look mature? (EG: Beard, breasts, muscle tone, etc, this is to rule out little people)
• Is the avatar using child like objects? (EG: Diapers, pacifiers, children toys, etc)
• Is the avatar in child groups?
• Do they specify an age for their avatar in their profile?
• Do they use child like vocabulary? (EG: mommy says i are a child avatar)

For reference, my ferret avatar 5.61 feet/1.71 meters(4.970275591/1.51494 meters according to LSL) and is considered an adult avatar. All of my avatars are the same age as me IRL.

Edited October 21, 2017 by Chaser Zaks

[Callum Meriman]

9 hours ago, Syo Emerald said:

In real life, that would exclude the majority of men.

Yep, that was mostly the point.

[skirtsdown]

This is all part of a larger issue that I have no idea how to handle. It is extremely easy to spot someone using a child or toddler avatar, but the line blurs quite a bit when it comes to perceptions about an avatar that simply looks young. As I've pointed out to people, an 18-year-old, for example, can still be in high school depending on when their birthday is. I still go to college now and many of the freshmen look so young I might consider them to still be in middle school.

In the case of my avatar, I attempted to go a different route, focusing instead on things that were objectively true. I studied human anatomy as it relates to drawing, so when it came to adjusting the proportions, I followed the guidelines set for a fully grown adult. There is some debate about the 8-heads rule being closer to 7.5 heads for females, but for simplicity, I proportioned her for 8 heads. Her breasts and hips are not oversized and generally what one would see on an athletic girl of around age 20. Her height is set to 1.8 meters, which honestly is a bit taller than most women but again, I was attempting to make at least some concession for overall scale. I use the Maitreya body and a Pink Fuel skin. In my profile, I have her age set to 20. I do not play her as a being younger than 20, I use no gestures or in any way hint at playing a minor.

Despite all of my careful attention to detail and focus on anatomical realism, adult roleplay sims have been insistent that to be allowed on an adult sim I would need to change my shape and have suggested my avatar "looks" too young - which of course is entirely subjective and totally inaccurate. It is a physical impossibility for an underage teen to have the proportions my avatar has but that doesn't seem to matter. Triumph of the subjective.

I know it will never happen, but I wish I could somehow get LL to "approve" my avatar. A process by which that could happen would go a long way toward alleviating peoples concerns. 

Edited March 22, 2018 by skirtsdown

[Rolig Loon]

1 hour ago, skirtsdown said:

Despite all of my careful attention to detail and focus on anatomical realism, adult roleplay sims have been insistent that to be allowed on an adult sim I would need to change my shape and have suggested my avatar "looks" too young - which of course is entirely subjective and totally inaccurate. It is a physical impossibility for an underage teen to have the proportions my avatar has but that doesn't seem to matter. Triumph of the subjective. 

This is what happens when we try to create binary rules in situations where the variable we are judging has a spread of reasonable values. I remember, way back when I was in 6th grade,  that another girl in our class had a much more "mature' shape than the rest of us (to the fascination of the boys), but can't have been much over 5 feet tall. She just matured early. I've known plenty of adult women who are no taller than that.  So... judging age by height or chest size ignores the reality of who we are.  One size does not fit all, and one binary rule can't either.  Sadly, adult regions have to make rather conservative judgments to be sure that they aren't blamed for anything that looks like they are condoning child pornography. It's safer for them to block someone unjustly than to admit someone who is going to involve everyone in a TOS flareup.  All you can do is recognize that problem and either stay away or adjust your height before you enter.

[skirtsdown]

1 minute ago, Rolig Loon said:

This is what happens when we try to create binary rules in situations where the variable we are judging has a spread of reasonable values. I remember, way back when I was in 6th grade,  that another girl in our class had a much more "mature' shape than the rest of us (to the fascination of the boys), but can't have been much over 5 feet tall. She just matured early. I've known plenty of adult women who are no taller than that.  So... judging age by height or chest size ignores the reality of who we are.  One size does not fit all, and one binary rule can't either.  Sadly, adult regions have to make rather conservative judgments to be sure that they aren't blamed for anything that looks like they are condoning child pornography. It's safer for them to block someone unjustly than to admit someone who is going to involve everyone in a TOS flareup.  All you can do is recognize that problem and either stay away or adjust your height before you enter.

Height isn't the issue in my case, and when I was referring to proportions, I was not referring to endowment. My reference to proportions is related to anatomical measurements. There is objective truth with regards to size ratios of head to body, arm length, torso length and the like. These proportions change as a person ages. A baby's head, for example, takes up around a quarter of their body length. In general it would be accurate to say there is some variation, certainly - but it is not hugely significant. Can you imagine how distorted an adult would look if their head was one-quarter of their height? It's ridiculous. The same rules apply to children, teenagers, and finally adults. Proportioning a character following anatomical rules makes them scientifically and measurably adult, regardless of how young their face looks, how big their breasts are, or how wide their hips are. There is FAR more significant variation in those measurements than there is in anatomical proportions and ratios. 

[Candice LittleBoots]

I'm 5'0 in both SL and RL. Problem starts when others make themselves some abnormally high height.

In RL, if I stood next to an average height man then yes, I would look short, but not like a child.
In SL, if I stood next to one of the ridiculously average height men then yes,  I probably look like a child.

Whose fault is that?

Anyway, I like tall men. Even though the top of my head is below the tops of their shoulders.

Why dont kiddie avatars that are designed to be children have a hidden flag that SL can detect and automatically disallow them entry into adult areas. The shortest I can possibly make my Maitreya body is around 4'6".

5'7" is a stupid height to use as a limit for ejection. Anywhere that does that can poke their precious venue up my pixelled backside.

Shorties have a tough time in SL