Your Biggest SL Disappointment

[Phil Deakins]

On 15/10/2017 at 6:35 PM, Phil Deakins said:

My biggest disappointemnt is Linden Lab itself. Through the years they've shown little to no care at all for their paying customers...

Here's a current example of LL showing little to no care at all about their paying customers. It's the ticket system.

Since I wrote that big disappointment post that I've quoted part of, I created a ticket, asking why something happened. I have a very strong opinion that it shouldn't have happened. The response, which I received by email, didn't tell me why. Instead, it consisted of stock copy/paste paragraphs that had nothing to do with the issue or question. It claimed that an investigation had been done, which I don't believe for a second. Had an investigation been done, then the responder would have been able to tell me why it happened instead of using stock copy/paste rubbish. The email said that I could reply to the response on the ticket, but when I got there, the ticket was closed. It also said that I could reply by email instead but the email was bounced because "The case is no longer available for comment because it has been archived", which I think is another way of saying that it's closed.

I'd created the ticket on the 13th. It was respponded to on the 16th. On the 17th, I sent my email reply and it bounced for the stated reason.

So, on the same day, the 17th, I opened another ticket to make my reply, stating the original ticket number. Sometime during yesterday evening (18th) an email arrived with the reponse from that ticket. Once again, is contained nothing but stock copy/paste stuff that didn't apply. But I saw it as I was preparing to go to bed last night, so I thought I'd deal with it this morning. Again, the email said that I could comment in the ticket but, again, it was closed. So I replied by email again, and I've just received the same thing - it bounced because of the same 'archived' reason.  That's approximately 12 hours after their comment - probably less.

I don't believe that the ticket was ever left open for what the emails call, "Waiting for Customer Acceptance". I believe that the person(s) at the LL end think that they only need to fob customers off with stock copy/paste stuff, making no attempt to address the actual issue, and close tickets with the word "Resolved". They're right, of course, because that's the way the company treats its customers.

What sort of ticket system is that? What sort of way is that to treat their paying customers? Sadly, it's typical of LL. This is just a small thing but how many years have they been running SL? and still they intentionally choose not to have reasonable customer care or service.

I can do the same thing over again - create yet another ticket, etc., but is there any point when it's certain to be fobbed off with the same 'customers don't matter' stock copy/paste reply, with no attempt to respond to the actual issue?

LL has been guilty of some much bigger 'customers don't matter' stuff, and a myriad of small 'customers don't matter' stuff, like this one. It just underlines one of my big disappointments about SL.

I have to say that there are some very good LL empoyees who I've come across in my 11 years here. It's the company that I find incredibly disappointing. It's a bad company.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Phil Deakins

[Whirly Fizzle]

You'll never be told the exact reason if you got a slap, suspension or ban for breaking the TOS or community standards.
The most you get is the part of the TOS/CS you broke pasted to you.
It's pointless to keep asking for the reason.
It sounds like that's what happened to you, a normal support ticket asking for help with an account or technical issue etc wouldn't be treated that way.

[Phil Deakins]

Nevertheless, since I have no idea what caused the problem, I have no idea what to avoid doing in the future. I know for certain that the stock copy/paste stuff I was given isn't applicable. In RL, the legal system doesn't tell someone that they've broken the law, so they're going to jail, without telling them what law they've broken and what they did that broke it. Not telling a person what they did and which law they broke is sheer stupidity, but that's what the LL company does - intentionally - because they don't care about their customers, which is my point. The only reason it's not actually stupid in this case is because we users put up with it and keep coming back.

Anyway, the way that LL treats its paying customers is one of my big disappointments. I just gave it as a current example.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Phil Deakins

[Whirly Fizzle]

I don't think it's because they don't care - it seems to be the policy they just won't tell you exactly what you did wrong.
Fwiw, I think it's stupid too. I can't think of any reason why they shouldn't tell you in more detail so you don't make the same mistake again.

[Phil Deakins]

We'll have to disagree, Whirly, because I do think it's because they don't care about paying customers. Maybe each individual cares but has to follow policy, if policy is what it is, in which case the people in the company who made the policy are the one's who don't care about their customers; i.e. it's the company that's bad. I often suspect, though, that at least some of the individuals who deal with things often don't give a damn about customers, and often deal with them in the quickest way they can, basically fobbing them off.

Whenever I criticise LL, I always point out that there are excellent people who work for LL, so I don't mean all LL employees. I really do mean the company - those who make such rotten decisions concerning their paying customers. I've never dealt with many Lindens in my 11 years here, so I don't know how many of them perform, but I do know that Guy is very good, Tommy (SuperTom) appears to be very good, and Harry (is he still around?) was very good too. There are no doubt many more, but the company is bad when it comes to its paying customers, imo, and is a huge disappointment to me.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Phil Deakins

[ChinRey]

15 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

and Harry (is he still around?)

Harry is long gone. He was at their London office and I think he was laid off when they closed that. HIs island is still here though and it's one of the many half forgotten little gems of SL.

I have had contact with quite a few Lindens and I still haven't met one who didn't mean well. But of course, good intentions aren't always enough.

[Anna Nova]

On 18/10/2017 at 7:15 PM, Vanity Fair said:

And that's another disappointment. I am Premium, and sixty groups is NOT enough for an avid fashionista! I say, let's take it up to 80!

It'd be worth it for all the Group Gifts you could collect!

[greek Wingtips]

I would say Linden to make a Iphone and Andriod app so we can at least communicate in sl on the move or at work,  Technolgy is there, so why has not LL moved on with the times

[Solar Legion]

23 minutes ago, greek Wingtips said:

I would say Linden to make a Iphone and Andriod app so we can at least communicate in sl on the move or at work,  Technolgy is there, so why has not LL moved on with the times

Subset Viewers, pick one.

[cykarushb]

50 minutes ago, greek Wingtips said:

I would say Linden to make a Iphone and Andriod app so we can at least communicate in sl on the move or at work,  Technolgy is there, so why has not LL moved on with the times

http://www.lumiyaviewer.com/

https://worldchat2017.wordpress.com/

http://mobilegridclient.com/

Note that 3D is pretty much not gonna happen. Phones arent there hardware wise yet to run SL smoothly even on a small screen. For mobile chatting though, these apps are great.

[Rhonda Huntress]

45 minutes ago, greek Wingtips said:

Technolgy is there, so why has not LL moved on with the times

Money.

Linden Lab is a business that needs to make money so it can pay its employees.   Maybe you could convince some of those employees to donate their time and work on an ios viewer.

[greek Wingtips]

Rhonda, if they created an app on andriod and Iphone and charged for it , they would make money, I can give a free site to make a andriod app for nothing , so I doubt it would be that hard for LL and it would make them money

[Prokofy Neva]

SL generally hasn't been a disappointment, despite its setbacks, but I suppose, for me, the biggest disappointment is that I can't make things. I have good ideas for them but it really takes skills to make them -- which I don't have, and won't get. That is, I've gotten enough of them to build simple things or repair things or whatever, but it's never going to be the delight I had hoped.

I console myself by buying the things of other people who ARE skilled and decorating with them!

[eighthdwarf Checchinato]

My biggest SL disappointments are:

1. the User Interface of all official viewers since V2.x: Cool VL Viewer, Singularity  -- and, in a way, the Firestorm Viewer in Phoenix Mode -- are proof that it's possible to have an up-to-date viewer with the (in my opinion) way more intuitive look&feel of V1.x
2. the diminishing support for Linux. Voice for example only works on Linux (somewhat) when running the "Not-an-Emulator" WINE.
3. The building tools: In my opinion, they should have become capable of creating mesh objects inworld, without having to use complicated offline software like Blender etc.

Edited October 24, 2017 by eighthdwarf Checchinato

[Whirly Fizzle]

13 hours ago, greek Wingtips said:

Rhonda, if they created an app on andriod and Iphone and charged for it , they would make money, I can give a free site to make a andriod app for nothing , so I doubt it would be that hard for LL and it would make them money

Lumiya is an excellent Android app for Second life,  It isn't just a text viewer, it has 3D rendering.
You'd be hard pushed to make something better then Lumiya on the Android platorm.
I feel it would be a waste of LL resources to make a rival Android app tbh.

[Anna Nova]

51 minutes ago, Whirly Fizzle said:

Lumiya is an excellent Android app for Second life,  It isn't just a text viewer, it has 3D rendering.
You'd be hard pushed to make something better then Lumiya on the Android platorm.
I feel it would be a waste of LL resources to make a rival Android app tbh.

I agree with Whirly.  When I am away, and want to keep in touch with SL friends and family, Lumiya is my go-to app.  Don't have to charge the laptop and suffer 8-Core 16G withdrawal and 4fps, but I can chat happily just using my phone (and that is a low-end Samsung S5Mini).  Lumiya's 3D is quite good for seeing who's around, but no use for building.....

[Nikkesa]

definitely the board cancelling features because it will overall make them less money.

 

We could have land the size of multiple sims for things like vehicle play, but we can't because they think they'll lose money. (scale of land in sl has zero performance impact on server...)

 

just in general, the lack of features and did coming out for this game. they could do a lot to make it fun for new users, but for some reason they don't want to ):

[Theresa Tennyson]

9 hours ago, Nikkesa said:

We could have land the size of multiple sims for things like vehicle play, but we can't because they think they'll lose money. (scale of land in sl has zero performance impact on server...)

 

Simon Linden, who (unlike some people) actually knows how the server software works, looked into doing just that. He found that the 256-meter limits were deeply embedded in the system and it would be quite difficult and potentially disruptive to try to do that.

[Chroma Starlight]

Mainland Community Governance had so much potential for good, but what was actually implemented was an insincere Lord of the Flies kakocracy, or "government by the worst of the people." Attempts at reason, testimony of truth, good-faith intent,  a sense of fairness in justice-- swept aside. Petty bullying, parochial arrogance, demagoguery. They denied all reasoned appeals and attempts to initiate any process that might confirm that SecondLife mainland communities are not illiberal spaces.

It bugs me, and the entire thing was degrading.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Chromal Brodsky

[Rhonda Huntress]

43 minutes ago, Chromal Brodsky said:

Mainland Community Governance had so much potential for good, but what was actually implemented was an insincere Lord of the Flies kakocracy, or "government by the worst of the people."

Phillip always believed a form of SL government would self-evolve that would be run entirely by and for the residents. However with no means to enforce laws plus the ability to change identities on a whim with a new avatar, there is no power to give to a government. Not even a feudal society of land owners.

[Phil Deakins]

42 minutes ago, Rhonda Huntress said:

Phillip always believed a form of SL government would self-evolve

Pleeeeze! HIS name is Philip - 1 L. MY name is Phillip - 2 Ls. I'm the posh one. He is not. Even the Duke of Edinburgh doesn't imagine that he's as posh as me, so he only has 1 L. I would greatly appreciate your full recognition of my poshness, and refrain from elevating others to my level in future. Thank you.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

I'm the posh one. He is not.

"Posh" means "Foppish", right?

[Phil Deakins]

'Posh', in my case, means terribly posh and way above the riff-raff, such as Philip, and, of course, Philip the Duke of Edinburgh.

I would smile now, but my nose is hautily in the air, and it would so be unbecoming for me to smile.

[Chase01]

Phil, It is not uncommon to receive a notice which does not include specifics regarding your case. It isn't a trial, it is a denial of service notice. As Whirly pointed out, those notices generally are specific to a portion of the TOS that was violated. Right or wrong, that is the practice and it is quite common on other online platforms as well. The penalty for those violations are rarely overturned, or open to debate. I don't think its appropriate to discuss the details of of your case here; but I'd think (outside of the wrong clause being sent to you) that you'd have an idea what the root cause was.

[Phil Deakins]

@Chase01 You're a week late in responding, Chase

Actually, when I compare my posts to the ToS and forum rules, I have no idea what the root cause was; i.e. what rule(s) were "violated". I do know what brought it about but not what was judged as having broken the rule(s). I agree with you for the majority of cases that we read about in the forum, but not for this one.

Anyway, It no longer matters because it was overturned, so it was one of those rare cases that you mentioned.

 

ETA: This next bit is just academic discussion. I am perfectly happy with things as they are concerning that case.

You said that "It isn't a trial, it is a denial of service notice". When you have paid real money for a 24/7 service, and you are intentionally cut off from it for a period of time as a punishment, you are entitled to know precisely why you are being denied what you have paid for. It is a real world situation, and the only thing that prevents it from being a "trial" in the RL legal system is the tiny amounts of money involved. I think that the implication in your statement, as it applies to suspensions from SL, isn't quite right. You only need to scale the financial numbers up to realise that.

It may well be that other platforms do it the same way, but that doesn't excuse it. They can get away with it because the financials are tiny, and we still keep coming back in spite of it. It remains as an example of the LL company not caring about it's paying customers, which is one of my big disappointments about SL, and which is what the thread is about.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Phil Deakins