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Zenless

Rollbacks and greedy Gacha

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How is it that Linden Labs is now refusing to do rollbacks (due to griefing) because they want to protect people who shove items into a machine and make up that they're somehow rare?  My sims been down for almost a week now because they refuse to just roll it back.  I've put hundreds upon hundreds of hours of work into the sim and thousands of dollars.  So why is someone who spends a half an hour making a bracelet then another 10 mins giving it a few different textures, deciding "OH THIS ONES SO RARE BECAUSE.."  prioritized?  This is a broken system, it's not my fault that they haven't closed exploits that allow griefers to ruin a sim, and it's not my fault that their program allows for the duplication of no copy objects through this method.  

This is the message we get over it.

"I'm sorry to hear about what happened in the [REDACTED].

We evaluate rollback requests on a case-by-case basis. One of the things we have to carefully check is the potential number of no-copy objects that would be duplicated in a rollback. It's a balancing act between the needs of property owners and the rights of content creators.

In this case, we've identified too many high-value items which would be duplicated by restoring the region to an earlier state. Since rollbacks are not an official service we provide, we must act in this case to protect the content creator's interests by denying the request.  We are sorry for any inconvenience our decision may cause you."

Edited by Zenless

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It's not just the possible duplication of no copy items that need to be considered when performing a rollback, they also need to consider the LOSS of no copy items that are currently rezzed on the region but were not rezzed during the last sim state save the region will be rolled back to.
LL have always been very picky about when they will perform a region rollback, especially on mainland regions or regions with multiple parcel owners, even before Gacha was a thing.

If there is a major problem on your region that you feel is best fixed by a rollback, but LL are refusing to do it, then I'd hope that LL support will give you some help to rectify the problem.

Out of curiosity, what was the problem that prompted you to request a rollback?

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Yes, when rolling back a sim, rezzed no copy items will most likely be lost.

Personally, I never understand those who dare to place out rare and expensive items without duplicates. I use gacha no copy things in my homes too, but not ones I can't afford to lose.

If you are the sim owner, it is not your no copy items? Your tenants?

I have never heard LL refuse a rollback for that reason. I think they are hit with massive complaints every time they roll back a sim and people loose their stuff. Maybe you should ban no copy items, and state to your tenants that you will return all things that are rezzed and no copy with "rare" in the description?

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If the sim has been down for a week now, how was anyone able to rez new things, which might get lost due to a rollback?

And besides that, the example of the 10 minutes bracelt doesn't really cut it. Why would you rez a rare bracelet inworld?

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8 hours ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

And besides that, the example of the 10 minutes bracelt doesn't really cut it. Why would you rez a rare bracelet inworld?

Specifically to copy it. One way to copy no-copy content (including scripted stuff) is to rez it before a sim snapshot, then lift it to inventory before a rollback to that snapshot. ( I don't think I'm revealing anything by making explicit what's already tacit in the topic of the thread.)

A "weaponized" version of this technique repeatedly brings gacha merchants to Linden user group meetings, begging for relief. I can imagine that the Lab may have developed some tools for scrutinizing the difference between sim states, assessing the no-copy content in that difference, and denying requests that are too no-copy heavy.

(Personally, I consider a win anything that makes gachapon less appealing as a business practice, but they've become an important enough player in the SL economy that the Lab must feel the pressure.)

One might imagine an option to filter the rolled-back sim state to remove any no-copy content that's not present in the current sim. (I've no idea if that would be a popular option.)

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Prior to the sim being down, we have a large playerbase which had many things rezzed.   The bracelet was just an example of what could be any item and how the entire gacha industry is a scam.   Been down the 20th, 22nd, 23rd, 24th, 25th.   Lot of L being sunken into a broken sim. It's not the matter of having to rebuild, it's the matter of the sim is none functional all for the protection of gacha nonsense.

Problem is they won't grant a rollback BillyJo since those psuedo-rare scams are more important to LL.  The sim is essentially broken until they do.  

 

EDIT: Resolved.

Edited by Zenless
problem was resolved

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Why do people buy from Gashas?  I never could understand it.

Isn't it like putting your money into a bandit, and pulling the lever until it's all gone?

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Why not settle for legal actions right away? 

In the end, it's no big difference to a server company failing to provide a functioning server to the customer.

According to your thread history, you continiously have problems with the "server" you're renting and the provider has failed to fix the problem up to this day.

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17 hours ago, Zenless said:

How ........... you."

perhaps tell what's really broken , but keep all the fuzz about gachas out of it..

I can't imagine LL lets the sim being down.

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1 hour ago, anna2358 said:

Why do people buy from Gashas?  I never could understand it.

Isn't it like putting your money into a bandit, and pulling the lever until it's all gone?

I buy most my gacha used from MP resellers. If the rare item is black and I want brown and red, I am sure to buy just that brown and red piece without risking to play the gatcha machine 6 times and get five teal items. Common colors is sold for the same as the pull price. If someone like the more "unusual" colors, it is often cheaper than pull price. Marketplace sellers compeate in prices too. A rare can cost 500 L or 2500 L, depending upon the seller.

I play a gacha machine when it has many items I want besides the rare.

Since I have several avatars, I send gacha items between them.  I use most wearables then, not so much house and garden stuff. If there is an item like a skybox, I always check if the gacha creator will trade the prize for a copy/no transfer.

Edited by Marianne Little
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Normally the Lab have been ok if there is one rollback, ever. It's once you try for your second they start putting up blocks, and by the third rollback request.... forget it.

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2 hours ago, anna2358 said:

Why do people buy from Gashas?  I never could understand it.

Isn't it like putting your money into a bandit, and pulling the lever until it's all gone?

For the same reason people put money into a bandit ;)

The price of on pull is quite low (25-75L$) and if you pull the (normaly) expensive stuff from the machine, you made a good bargain. Its the thrill that keeps you going...and that makes it possible the merchand can put big stuff into the machine for such a little price, because some people end up paying more than they would for a whole set sold at a normal price. Other people make up for their loss by reselling unwanted items on the marketplace or at inworld yardsales. And some have made that into their own niche, where they expecially hunt for rares or offer complete sets to make profit.

 

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8 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Personally, I consider a win anything that makes gachapon less appealing as a business practice

Gachapon? Didn't know this is a word, maybe "Gachaporn"?  I'm afraid to try gacha myself, I'd probably just win chewing gum, or those funny long balloons that come in little packets.

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7 hours ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

Why not settle for legal actions right away?

Because Linden Lab is very clear they take no responsibility whatsoever for lost items or anything like that. Here's chapter 9.2 of the Terms of Service we allø ahd to agree to to be allowed into SL at all:

Quote

9.2 Linden Lab provides the Service on an "as is" basis, without express or implied warranties, and all Content, including Virtual Tender and other Virtual Goods and Services, have no guarantee or warranty of any compensable value.

LINDEN LAB PROVIDES THE SERVICE, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE SOFTWARE, THE WEBSITES, THE SERVERS, THE CONTENT (INCLUDING THE VIRTUAL GOODS AND SERVICES), AND YOUR ACCOUNT, STRICTLY ON AN "AS IS" BASIS, AND HEREBY EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS OF ANY KIND, WRITTEN OR ORAL, EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY IMPLIED WARRANTY OF TITLE, NONINFRINGEMENT, MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.

NO VALUE, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, IS GUARANTEED OR WARRANTED WITH RESPECT TO ANY CONTENT, INCLUDING VIRTUAL TENDER OR ANY OTHER VIRTUAL GOODS AND SERVICES. NOTWITHSTANDING ANY INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS YOU MAY HAVE IN YOUR CONTENT OR ANY EXPENDITURE ON YOUR PART, LINDEN LAB AND YOU EXPRESSLY DISCLAIM ANY COMPENSABLE VALUE RELATING TO OR ATTRIBUTABLE TO ANY DATA RELATING TO YOUR ACCOUNT RESIDING ON LINDEN LAB'S SERVERS. YOU ASSUME ALL RISK OF LOSS FROM USING THE SERVICE ON THIS BASIS.

Linden Lab does not ensure continuous, error-free, secure or virus-free operation of the Service, the Software, the Websites, the Servers, or your Account, and you understand that you shall not be entitled to refunds or other compensation based on Linden Lab's failure to provide any of the foregoing other than as explicitly provided in this Agreement. Some jurisdictions do not allow the disclaimer of implied warranties and, to that extent, the foregoing disclaimers may not apply to you.

 

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Lost items... yeah whatever. The Gatcha stuff seems to be completely irrelevant to the main issue and just an outlet or "scapegoat":
the OP claims that the rented sim has been malfunctioning for weeks, if you follow the thread history, and so far, its proper function has not been restored. Thus: failure to provide rented services, aka sim hosting. 

The rest can happily be discussed with a lawyer.
 

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1 minute ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

The rest can happily be discussed with a lawyer.

You might find a lawyer willing to write a letter for the same cost as a month's rental of a full sim.  I wouldn't expect anything more than that, tho.

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Not my problem, but the OP's. 

Just saying that, since there's already thoughts of legal actions, which can be as simple as a letter. Why not right away instead of waiting for a potential sim shut down and all?

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19 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

I buy most my gacha used from MP resellers. If the rare item is black and I want brown and red, I am sure to buy just that brown and red piece without risking to play the gatcha machine 6 times and get five teal items. Common colors is sold for the same as the pull price. If someone like the more "unusual" colors, it is often cheaper than pull price. Marketplace sellers compeate in prices too. A rare can cost 500 L or 2500 L, depending upon the seller.

I play a gacha machine when it has many items I want besides the rare.

Since I have several avatars, I send gacha items between them.  I use most wearables then, not so much house and garden stuff. If there is an item like a skybox, I always check if the gacha creator will trade the prize for a copy/no transfer.

OK, your method I can understand, you are exploiting the rules for your benefit. 

 

18 hours ago, Syo Emerald said:

For the same reason people put money into a bandit ;)

The price of on pull is quite low (25-75L$) and if you pull the (normaly) expensive stuff from the machine, you made a good bargain. Its the thrill that keeps you going...and that makes it possible the merchand can put big stuff into the machine for such a little price, because some people end up paying more than they would for a whole set sold at a normal price. Other people make up for their loss by reselling unwanted items on the marketplace or at inworld yardsales. And some have made that into their own niche, where they expecially hunt for rares or offer complete sets to make profit.

 

I have to admit I didn't think this right through.  Where there are addicts, there's a profit.

I had not considered the secondary market properly.

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2 hours ago, anna2358 said:

OK, your method I can understand, you are exploiting the rules for your benefit. 

O.o

Where exactly do you see an "exploit" in sharing no copy items between one's alts, buying no copy items "second-hand" on the Marketplace or making use of a creator's offer to trade in no copy items for no transfer versions?

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16 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Gachapon? Didn't know this is a word, maybe "Gachaporn"?

Per wikipedia, "'Gashapon' is a Japanese onomatopoeia composed of two sounds: 'gasha' (or 'gacha') for the sound of a crank on a toy vending machine, and 'pon' for the sound of the toy capsule dropping into the receptacle." So without the "pon" part, gacha is just pulling my crank. So to speak.

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Onomatopœia is such an awesome word. Japanese as a somewhat agglutinative language expresses onomatopœia far better than plain, old, boring, English. 

We put up with Baa, and Moo, and Brum, and other kindergarten noises - the Japanese get great words like ドキドキ as an expression of love, or ずきずき as severe pain, or さんさん for a lovely sunny day, or ぎらぎら for the sparkle in your eyes.

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7 hours ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

O.o

Where exactly do you see an "exploit" in sharing no copy items between one's alts, buying no copy items "second-hand" on the Marketplace or making use of a creator's offer to trade in no copy items for no transfer versions?

All I meant was that I understand that there is an understandable  and sensible method.  I wasn't criticising at all.  The word 'exploit' has no critical connotation for me.

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Whether they like it or not, the vendors incidentally created the framework for the secondary market and thank god for that. Some vendors offer a copy mod version, some for free, in some cases for an additional fee. These days, we don't hear so much grumbling over the matter. They are content making their money and some of us are more content with buying on the second hand market.

To the OP, like Alwin said—there's more to this story then we're being told. If you come here seeking advice, we need the pertinent details without the melodrama.

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