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OK so my wife wears Belleza Freya, the 2nd most popular mesh body in SL and my personal favorite. She loves clothes shopping but everything she wants is Maitreya exclusive. We go to alot of events and at least 80% of the clothing is exclusive to Maitreya. Why is this? Now she's thinking of getting Maitreya...this is not right!

Making people feel like they need to change bodies so they can wear what they like is a horrible idea. 

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17 minutes ago, Chrismaky said:

OK so my wife wears Belleza Freya, the 2nd most popular mesh body in SL and my personal favorite. She loves clothes shopping but everything she wants is Maitreya exclusive. We go to alot of events and at least 80% of the clothing is exclusive to Maitreya. Why is this? Now she's thinking of getting Maitreya...this is not right!

 

i find this most odd.. I don't know where you are shopping, but I rarely see anything anymore for just Maitreya.. That was the case yes, back when Maitreya was one of the first on the market.. But these days  lot of mesh makers and clothing designers do all the bodies available.. I know I do.. I wear Maitreya or Belleza Isis myself.. and I make clothing in SL,  I mostly use pre made full perm mesh templates to work from (cause I am not good enough at making my own mesh yet) .. and I will not buy any template that does not offer at least the most popular in specific sizes for each body.   Your wife must be finding a lot of really old stuff.  But yes I agree with you, she should not feel she has to get another body just to wear a handful of clothing..  Trust me there is a ton of awesome designs out there with sizes made especially for Freya just maybe have to go to some new or different fairs or stores.

 

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15 minutes ago, Tazzie Tuque said:

i find this most odd.. I don't know where you are shopping, but I rarely see anything anymore for just Maitreya.. That was the case yes, back when Maitreya was one of the first on the market.. But these days  lot of mesh makers and clothing designers do all the bodies available.. I know I do.. I wear Maitreya or Belleza Isis myself.. and I make clothing in SL,  I mostly use pre made full perm mesh templates to work from (cause I am not good enough at making my own mesh yet) .. and I will not buy any template that does not offer at least the most popular in specific sizes for each body.   Your wife must be finding a lot of really old stuff.  But yes I agree with you, she should not feel she has to get another body just to wear a handful of clothing..  Trust me there is a ton of awesome designs out there with sizes made especially for Freya just maybe have to go to some new or different fairs or stores.

 

Oh she will find them. The last one was the Dead Dollz Go Ask Alice gacha collection. Really nice dress and outfit... Maitreya exclusive. And that's pretty recent I believe. 

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3 hours ago, Chrismaky said:

Oh she will find them. The last one was the Dead Dollz Go Ask Alice gacha collection. Really nice dress and outfit... Maitreya exclusive. And that's pretty recent I believe. 

ohhh ok,, then that would definitely be the reason for finding only Maitreya... it is Gatcha's... they only put out one item in one size for each try..  so in order to get the size she wants she may have to spend tons of lindens on those things..  Gatcha's are a total rip off .. the whole idea is to give you just one item, so you will try again and spend more lindens till you get the one you want.. My advice, shop in stores, and leave the Gatcha's alone.. they are nothing but a money grab.  And for folks who love to gamble.

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3 hours ago, Chrismaky said:

The last one was the Dead Dollz Go Ask Alice gacha collection

You pretty much answered your own question the moment you said the word Gacha.

Gacha makers are under deadlines, got to make a brand new 57 part set of exclusive and original components for the new "Hand over all your money" set, that's going in the one-armed bandit vendor at next months round of Extortion-888.

They don't have the TIME to make all 57 parts in sizes for every mesh body, so they just do ONE, the most popular, as that generates the maximum amount of gacha pulls for the minimum amount of messing about.
 

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6 hours ago, Chrismaky said:

OK so my wife wears Belleza Freya, the 2nd most popular mesh body in SL and my personal favorite. She loves clothes shopping but everything she wants is Maitreya exclusive. We go to alot of events and at least 80% of the clothing is exclusive to Maitreya. Why is this? Now she's thinking of getting Maitreya...this is not right!

Making people feel like they need to change bodies so they can wear what they like is a horrible idea. 

Maitreya is the most popular, whether some folks like it or not, it just is. So, you are more likely to find stuff for it than others. But, I know there is tons out there for most of the others too, just gotta know where to look (I'd offer advice in that area, but I have maitreya, and even then it wasn't really my idea, plus I only change my clothes a couple times a year, lol, so would be of no help to your wife, sorry)

That said...on the last bit...that's precisely how folks that didn't, and don't, want to change to a mesh body at all feel about clothes. Finding clothes that fit other folks, standard, classic, even the newest versions of LL's starter avs, etc...is much more difficult than finding clothes to fit mesh bodies created by third parties.  Most folks that complain about this, get told "either embrace change, or accept that your way is going the way of the dinosaurs" and other such things, a lot of which hasn't been all that nice(you can find those threads on these forums, I'm sure). I'm willing to bet folks that don't want to buy a mesh body would love to have as many clothing options as mesh body owners have, and many of them probably think creators NOT creating for that market too, is also a horrible idea. Doesn't mean it actually IS, from a creator's standpoint, but I can understand why they feel that way, so from a customer's standpoint, it can seem/feel like a horrible idea. Loads of folks seem to think their(non-mesh body folks) opinion has little to no merit all because they "refuse to advance/accept change/adapt"..and I think that's a load of bull. It certainly has, at the very least, as much merit as someone thinking a creator should cater to most, if not all, mesh bodies ;) 

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14 minutes ago, Chrismaky said:

Does anyone know of any clothing stores that also sell Freya that are not on the mp? 

To answer that question there is one thing that I must point out..  this forum does not allow the listing of specific stores, or MP urls...  that is considered advertising and I have gotten into trouble before here for posting such information.  You can, use your search engine in your viewer,  select places and type in Fashion.. you will get a load of stores some of them may even have the types of mesh clothing they sell for what bodies, listed in their bio.  Might take a little work but at least you will know what they have to sell.

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On 9/23/2017 at 12:48 AM, Chrismaky said:

OK so my wife wears Belleza Freya, the 2nd most popular mesh body in SL and my personal favorite. She loves clothes shopping but everything she wants is Maitreya exclusive. We go to alot of events and at least 80% of the clothing is exclusive to Maitreya. Why is this? Now she's thinking of getting Maitreya...this is not right!

Making people feel like they need to change bodies so they can wear what they like is a horrible idea. 

What's your source for the statement that it's the second most popular mesh body on SL?

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49 minutes ago, Pixieplumb Flanagan said:

Must have been pretty much underground, never heard of that one before...

With about 1700 votes, roughly summed up, you might call it a tad more representative than the Standard Size survey, which came up with averages based on 500 submissions, I believe.

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55 minutes ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

Must have been pretty much underground, never heard of that one before...

With about 1700 votes, roughly summed up, you might call it a tad more representative than the Standard Size survey, which came up with averages based on 500 submissions, I believe.

Underground is a template maker - their respondents will probably skew toward resellers rather than end users.

From what I've seen, merchants selling fitted mesh divide into groups.

The first group, who are generally make large amounts of original mesh and have been around for a while, usually support Maitreya, Slink and Belleza.

Original mesh makers who are smaller and turn out items less often are skewing Maitreya-exclusive right now.

Merchants using templates usually support the largest number of bodies, but their support is dependent on the templates they buy.

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On 9/22/2017 at 9:48 PM, Chrismaky said:

OK so my wife wears Belleza Freya, the 2nd most popular mesh body in SL and my personal favorite. She loves clothes shopping but everything she wants is Maitreya exclusive. We go to alot of events and at least 80% of the clothing is exclusive to Maitreya. Why is this? Now she's thinking of getting Maitreya...this is not right!

Making people feel like they need to change bodies so they can wear what they like is a horrible idea. 

 

The nasty rumor is that Maitreya pays people to not support other brands. It is a rumor. I mention it in order to get it off the table. I have never seen any proof of it.

A more plausible reason is that Maitreya might give preference to people who go exclusive when it comes to approving handing out the developer kit. This is also a nasty and yet also unproven notion. It WAS true of TMP. But that is TMP, and TMP has earned a bad reputation as a result.

The most likely reason stems from the time delay between Belleza 2.0 and 3.0 a few years back. It took Belleza a little longer than a full year to get that update out. And for that whole duration they chose to stop approving new developer kits. The 2.0 version was before Maitreya came out. Maitreya came out in a very sloppy 1.0... but still better than Belleza 2.0

Maitreya had a series of quick updates until it hit 3.0 if I recall right. Belleza 3.0 came out and was vastly better than anything else on the market... but the damage was already done.

- It just so happens that the same year that Belleza stopped approving new developers was the very same year clothing makers noticed their sales drop through the floor and EVERYONE started shopping almost exclusively at the then brand new shop; Blueberry... because Blueberry was supporting fitmesh.

 

- So in the very year that clothing makers started banging on the doors of every fitmesh body begging for support kits... Belleza slammed the door shut and went into isolated-development-mode.

Meanwhile Slink and Maitreya handed out kits of bad quality clunky mesh bodies... on the promise that upgrades would come. By their now current versions they are still pretty bad meshes (very deformed breast and hip areas if you go outside a narrow range of shape dials, and poor avatar physics)... but they have good feature sets, like bento hands.

 

Belleza went from being the number 1 body, to crashing down very fast. And it was a self-inflicted wound.

 

That said... I exclusively use Belleza Freya.

 

It is so vastly superior to other bodies, that the hassle is worth it. When I was wearing clothing, I found enough support for it. Not everything I want / wanted... but enough. The situation is what it is... But the body is worth it.

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On 9/23/2017 at 3:08 PM, Chrismaky said:

Does anyone know of any clothing stores that also sell Freya that are not on the mp? 

Join the Belleza group in world and ask. There is a google doc that people share.

-Belleza- Mesh Creators Group
secondlife:///app/group/716bedc0-18e1-5cd7-dc85-46989a17d637/about
https://my.secondlife.com/groups/716bedc0-18e1-5cd7-dc85-46989a17d637

 

Of shops... I think the best place to go these days is Addams. And all their merchant vendor images appear to be shot using Belleza. Their 'customer service rep' is also the 'customer service rep' for Belleza.

http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Addams Land/120/115/145

 

Beyond that, I actually buy a lot of full perms kits. Many of the full perms kits cost about the same as a 'no-Mod fatpack' from other sellers...

Underground - this is a team, and each maker has a different shop on MP... so just search 'Underground' under merchant name and look through all the results. Some of them are these folks, some are not.

FLECHA ( https://marketplace.secondlife.com/stores/52128 )

KRY.moda ( https://marketplace.secondlife.com/stores/139505 )

CREATIVE STUDIO ( https://marketplace.secondlife.com/stores/116256 ) Pricey but newer stuff is really good.

coolbigbird ( https://marketplace.secondlife.com/stores/132175 ).

Meli Imako ( https://marketplace.secondlife.com/stores/67299 ) her newer stuff all support Belleza, and her prices are super low.

LenkaCanvas ( https://marketplace.secondlife.com/stores/141267 )

niah larsson ( https://marketplace.secondlife.com/stores/22144/ )

Neve by coldLogic ( http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Neve/129/130/24 ) - These was the top clothing brand in SL before fitmesh. They were super slow to support fitmesh and so fell into nearly unknown status. They were then super slow to support Belleza, and originally only did Belleza with boobs set to 'perky'... they're now doing more... their style is top notch and usually 'business to business casual'... making them stand out for not being about 'club, beach, and kink'. 

 

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On 9/23/2017 at 5:48 AM, Chrismaky said:

OK so my wife wears Belleza Freya, the 2nd most popular mesh body in SL and my personal favorite. She loves clothes shopping but everything she wants is Maitreya exclusive. We go to alot of events and at least 80% of the clothing is exclusive to Maitreya. Why is this? Now she's thinking of getting Maitreya...this is not right!

Making people feel like they need to change bodies so they can wear what they like is a horrible idea. 

Clothing creators don't make people swap bodies, mesh body creators do that!

Here's a conversation from this morning that I had in IM:-

Customer: "I was looking through MP and found <dress>.  I love it but I wear Belleza Isis, is there any way you can update it to include Belleza?"

Me: "Hi, yes, as soon as the creator who makes the Belleza bodies stops being an idiot and starts freely giving out the dev kit so that people can make things for their mesh bodies.  This is the same story for all the top mesh body creators.  If you want products for the body that you have bought, you and all the other customers should be giving them grief about the way they restrict access to developer kits!"

Customer: "Well guess I do not want it that bad, I am sorry that you feel that way."

See the problem?  WE...people who want to create for these bodies can't do it effectively without the dev kit and the pressure really should come from the customers who have bought into these closed systems, there's little that creators can do other than fill in the application form.

I've done that, usually with the result of just getting ignored so there's really no point people asking me "if I can just create a <insert favourite mesh body> version".

People buy into closed systems and then complain about lack of options for it.  Can you see the problem there?

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This has been an interesting thread, to be able to read about the issues for those wearing or trying to create for mesh bodies.. However, I am one of those that have refused to go with a mesh body. I'm still "flesh not mesh", although I'm considering going with mesh feet and Bento hands ( but there go all my rings I'd no longer be able to wear).. I don't see the point of mesh bodies, and I'm not eager to give up the 'classic' body and face shape I've worked so hard on creating for my main AVI.. I spent HOURS on a pose stand, tweaking everything.. The same goes for my ALT (both of them).. 

But now, my complaint and/or suggestion to creators is, "Don't forget your "Classic" customer base."  My favorite tattoo creator (Carol G) no longer creates her beautiful and very feminine tattoos for "Standard" or "Classic" SL bodies. Shame too, because I'd be spending a lot of money on her new releases, but *I (& my ALTs) CAN'T WEAR THEM!!!*.. Unfortunately, a lot of amazing and favorite clothing and makeup creators are going the same route, making clothing or makeup for every mesh body and (specifically) Catwa head out there, but completely dissing and ignoring their "Classic" body/head customers.. It's sad really, and a bit infuriating.. I'll see something on MP or in-world that I'd click that "buy" button SO fast on, only to see it isn't made for "Classic" AVIs.. 
 

Don't get me wrong here, I LOVE mesh clothing, but I DON'T love feeling like I'm being FORCED into considering a mesh body and/or head when I really don't want one just so I can wear that beautiful or cute outfit or that amazing makeup.. And yes as someone posted in this thread, the responses when I write to a creator asking about making their items available for "Classic" bodies, is rude bordering on insulting (IF they bother to answer at all)..  "To create clothing for Standard bodies, we have to make at least 5 versions of the same thing, alphas, etc. that takes too much time. Get a mesh body and solve your problem that way.".. Really?.. So those of us that still have & PREFER Classic/Standard bodies are 3rd class customers now???

Our $Ls spend just as well as those with Mesh bodies and we should not be dismissed, ignored or insulted because we chose to stay 'flesh not mesh'.. :(

 

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1 hour ago, Zenash Vlodovic said:

I'm considering going with mesh feet and Bento hands ( but there go all my rings I'd no longer be able to wear)

You can still wear your rings. Just attach them to the correct fingers and edit them into position.

You're right about the system hands and (especially) feet. Ugh... :/  But for the price of a full set of mesh hands and feet you could get a quality mesh body (yes, I know...) which includes all those, and you can choose to only wear the hands and/or feet if you want, keeping the rest of your system body on show. Just a thought.

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Well I was a hold out on mesh bodies for a long long time..  finally gave in when I discovered that I still can use my own shape (that I too took ages to get just right) and to my amazement my body looked better !!  I even managed to hold out on a mesh head till just recently when bento came in..  and after trying like at least 30 demos,,  I finally found one that I could alter and make look almost exactly like my classic head features.   So in the long run I am glad first that I held out till the bugs got worked out of mesh bodies and heads..  and second that I did take the plunge..  However, having said that..  I do still make a few clothes system layer clothes for classic avatars because I know there are still a lot out there:)   

Just my two cents worth lol 

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10 hours ago, Zenash Vlodovic said:

This has been an interesting thread, to be able to read about the issues for those wearing or trying to create for mesh bodies.. However, I am one of those that have refused to go with a mesh body. I'm still "flesh not mesh", although I'm considering going with mesh feet and Bento hands ( but there go all my rings I'd no longer be able to wear).. I don't see the point of mesh bodies, and I'm not eager to give up the 'classic' body and face shape I've worked so hard on creating for my main AVI.. I spent HOURS on a pose stand, tweaking everything.. The same goes for my ALT (both of them).. 

But now, my complaint and/or suggestion to creators is, "Don't forget your "Classic" customer base."  My favorite tattoo creator (Carol G) no longer creates her beautiful and very feminine tattoos for "Standard" or "Classic" SL bodies. Shame too, because I'd be spending a lot of money on her new releases, but *I (& my ALTs) CAN'T WEAR THEM!!!*.. Unfortunately, a lot of amazing and favorite clothing and makeup creators are going the same route, making clothing or makeup for every mesh body and (specifically) Catwa head out there, but completely dissing and ignoring their "Classic" body/head customers.. It's sad really, and a bit infuriating.. I'll see something on MP or in-world that I'd click that "buy" button SO fast on, only to see it isn't made for "Classic" AVIs.. 
 

Don't get me wrong here, I LOVE mesh clothing, but I DON'T love feeling like I'm being FORCED into considering a mesh body and/or head when I really don't want one just so I can wear that beautiful or cute outfit or that amazing makeup.. And yes as someone posted in this thread, the responses when I write to a creator asking about making their items available for "Classic" bodies, is rude bordering on insulting (IF they bother to answer at all)..  "To create clothing for Standard bodies, we have to make at least 5 versions of the same thing, alphas, etc. that takes too much time. Get a mesh body and solve your problem that way.".. Really?.. So those of us that still have & PREFER Classic/Standard bodies are 3rd class customers now???

Our $Ls spend just as well as those with Mesh bodies and we should not be dismissed, ignored or insulted because we chose to stay 'flesh not mesh'.. :(

 

Just checking to make sure I'm getting this straight - so, basically, you're saying, "Other people should do things they don't want to do so I don't have to do what I don't want to do"?

 

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10 hours ago, Zenash Vlodovic said:

Unfortunately, a lot of amazing and favorite clothing and makeup creators are going the same route, making clothing or makeup for every mesh body and (specifically) Catwa head out there, but completely dissing and ignoring their "Classic" body/head customers.. It's sad really, and a bit infuriating..

I know the tattoos you mentioned from the FlickR ads and they look really lovely.
Maybe, just maybe, you could get in touch with the creator and kindly ask if they'd be willing to sell an extra system tattoo layer.

The "extra work" is minimal, probably done in a minute or so. The required textures already exist in world and in the creator's inventory, that means no extra costs for uploads. Add them to a tattoo layer, check permissions, *bang*, done.
Actually easier than asking creators of system clothes to look into adding an (Omega) applier. 

I suppose there could be rare cases where a design might be optimized for finer details of a mesh body's UV mapping or something. But in general ... why not? 

 

9 hours ago, angeoco said:

You can still wear your rings. Just attach them to the correct fingers and edit them into position.

D'oh.

I ... err ... yeah. That would work, quite likely. 

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11 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Just checking to make sure I'm getting this straight - so, basically, you're saying, "Other people should do things they don't want to do so I don't have to do what I don't want to do"?

 

Wow.. And that is exactly the attitude I'm talking about.. The quote above, making me sound so very selfish and horrible, is out of line, and another "quit your bitching and just get a mesh body" type of response.. All I'm asking is for creators not to forget their 'Classic" body customers that they USED to create for.. It's not just *I* in my concerns. There are a LOT of "Classic" AVIs out there that are just as disappointed in this trend as I am. The creators doing this are losing those customers because of it.. And I HAVE written to some of them, asking as nicely as possible if they would consider making a particular item (that is mesh compatible only) in a "Classic" AVI version.. Some have been apologetic about it, but still not willing to do it.. And some have been down-right rude and insulting.. I don't get crappy with creators, what's the point of that? I try very hard to be polite and complimentary even when their responses have been less that polite... 

I have a lot of Classic outfits that I still love and wear, going Mesh, makes those awesome outfits useless.. (unless I can leave my Classic body showing under a mesh body, as was suggested by "angeoco" regarding mesh feet and hands..) Thank you for that suggestion.. Gives me some new things to consider.. 

20 hours ago, angeoco said:

You can still wear your rings. Just attach them to the correct fingers and edit them into position.

You're right about the system hands and (especially) feet. Ugh... :/  But for the price of a full set of mesh hands and feet you could get a quality mesh body (yes, I know...) which includes all those, and you can choose to only wear the hands and/or feet if you want, keeping the rest of your system body on show. Just a thought.

Granted, I don't know a lot about mesh bodies and how they work, but there's a lot of talk about "complexity numbers" (?) and some bodies/feet/hands/heads, adding a tremendous amount.. I have NO idea if this is true or not, but if it is, why wear the mesh item and have the complexity jump so high, people can't see you?? Kind of defeats the purpose.. *sigh*.. All I'm asking is for creators not to forget or dismiss those of us that are still "Classic", especially those that *used* to include us in their creations.. . Why is that so wrong? And why does that request elicit such venom in responses or comments from *some* people?

to those that have been helpful, polite and understanding in their responses, THANK YOU.. :)

Edited by Zenash Vlodovic
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Quality mesh bodies do not add much complexity. You can try some demos and see what they add. I have (had) some hairs and jewellery that are much more complex.

I might be able to do a comparison myself soon; I will post the result here.

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