Hover, Hover and Shoebase

[Anna Nova]

Ok, I understand the two hovers, and I know about the system shoes used as shoebases for mesh shoes. But the system is driving me insane as I try to put my hundreds of shoes into some kind of order.

I know that the Shape hover runs from -50 to +50 by having 50 as zero, each point being about 0.05 meters.  I know that the Viewer Hover can be adjusted by entering nice fine numbers (meters or fractions thereof), or dragging a slider for ultra coarse adjustments - why it's so coarse escapes me, so it's a pain but you can do it.  And I know how to make a shoebase (a system shoe) and set the heel and platform height between 0 and 100, but I'm not sure of their real size - probably same as Shape hover.

But I get some shoes, and mesh feet - which are the same thing really - that when I put them on have me way up in the air.  So I don't want to fix this with the Viewer Hover - that way every pair of shoes I have will require a notecard to record the correct setting - I want to fix it with the shoebase.  So I set-to to edit it (or create a new one if the supplied shoebase is No-Mod [HATE Unnecessary No MOD]).  I reduce the the platform and heel height to the correct visuals (it looks right), and then save, wait a bit, and then the height changes!  So edit it again, save, and the height changes again!  So edit it, and -----  ad infinitum.   Sometimes, I end up with THE SAME VALUE as I started with, but at a different height!  Edit: Re-logging sometimes seems to change things too.  2nd Edit:  I've noticed that when things get really out of control (e.g. when increasing platform height makes you sink...), a quick walk about with the avatar gets things back to a reasonable point.

OK, so something is happening that I don't understand.  Can someone help me understand this multidimensional problem?

And, is it possible to replace the whole thing with a scripted object - attached to the foot perhaps?

Edited September 12, 2017 by anna2358
added info on relogging and No-Mod shoebases

[Bitsy Buccaneer]

In lieu of a better solution, or for other notes - if the item name can't be modded to include additional information, use the folder name to record useful info. Try to be consistent with any abbreviations though. Helps with making sense of it later.

[Ivanova Shostakovich]

   I've noticed that some shoes, meant for my mesh body, automatically put a shoe base on me when I wear them. I wonder if there is inconsistency between some of them.

[Anna Nova]

10 minutes ago, Ivanova Shostakovich said:

   I've noticed that some shoes, meant for my mesh body, automatically put a shoe base on me when I wear them. I wonder if there is inconsistency between some of them.

I'm pretty sure that isn't my problem, because I am constantly checking the inventory 'worn', which I have fully expanded.  I do this because some feet have a shoebase too, and I only want one, the shoe.  But it's good thought.

[Chic Aeon]

The theory as I understand it is that with the hover in SHAPE set to 50 (the middle) and the Viewer Hover set to 0, each shoe "should" when worn with the shoe base accompanying it have you at the right height. Sets without shoe bases (in theory) shouldn't need a shoebase and are planned to be correct as it.  

The OTHER thing that comes into play is the height of the animations in your AO (or the pose you are playing if taking photos). This can also change things some BUT if you are wearing the same AO all the time it should be consistent.

The problem is --- like with many mesh clothes -- not all designers are equal and so even with your own settings consistent, there can be differences between shoe brands and styles.  I don't think there is any way to get around this.

 

 

[Anna Nova]

26 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

...

The problem is --- like with many mesh clothes -- not all designers are equal and so even with your own settings consistent, there can be differences between shoe brands and styles.  I don't think there is any way to get around this.

Chic, thanks for trying, but it cuts no ice.  My gripe is not with the clothes or body designers.  Some shoes designers don't supply shoebases any more. and I don't care, I just make my own.

No, my gripe is that I can't understand what is happening!  There is no rational explanation of why when I set a height in a shoebase it should look right in the viewer UNTIL I save it, then spring to another height a moment or three later!  Checking the shoebase confirms the numbers are unaltered.  WHY?  Doesn't anyone know?

 

Here is an example.  The fact it's from Baby Monkey is irrelevant - Pixieplumb is one of the good guys, it happens with my own shoebase too.

Pic 1.  The boot without the shoebase.

Pic2: The boot with the shoebase added, snapped quickly:

Pic3:  Count 1, 2, 3....  and the whole avatar jumps higher...

The floor, by the way is a mesh plane, part of the fantastic  'Chinrey' 1 prim skybox that I use for outfit fitting and photos.

 

Edited September 12, 2017 by anna2358
Put captions to the photos.

[Chic Aeon]

OK. I didn't get what you were saying --- BUT I came back to add to my post since I JUST (when out and about taking photos) found something else that changes. 

My shoebase height was "perfect" on my building pad. I went to a new location and I was hovering way above the ground. It was apparently some less than great mesh (a physics thing). Since I constantly play with my hover height (or possibly float above the floor and don't notice) I don't worry  about it.

Maybe someone has the answer for you. Personally, I haven't seen what your pictures discribe. Latest version of FS if that matters.  

HAVE you tried other viewers to see if the same thing happens for you?

Long, LONG ago I remember a bug like this but it has been many years.  

 

 

[Anna Nova]

12 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

OK. I didn't get what you were saying --- BUT I came back to add to my post since I JUST (when out and about taking photos) found something else that changes. 

My shoebase height was "perfect" on my building pad. I went to a new location and I was hovering way above the ground. It was apparently some less than great mesh (a physics thing). Since I constantly play with my hover height (or possibly float above the floor and don't notice) I don't worry  about it.

Maybe someone has the answer for you. Personally, I haven't seen what your pictures discribe. Latest version of FS if that matters.  

HAVE you tried other viewers to see if the same thing happens for you?

Long, LONG ago I remember a bug like this but it has been many years.  

 

I'm on Linux.

I hadn't tried the SLViewer (5.0.6.326593), because I require RLV for my scripting, I only ever use the expletive deleted thing for uploading mesh.

And all the shoes that I had carefully set with shoebases to be on the ground plane using Firestorm(5.0.7.52912), float above the same plane in the  SLV - however it's a consistent height, and that's actually all I need.  Consistency and understanding of the processes.

And I too have noticed that some regions and some floors have a different view of what 'on' means.  Ce la vie.

[Rhonda Huntress]

I have one shoe base in my inventory.  That's all.

I keep the hover slider parked at the top of my screen and adjust as needed throughout the day.  You have to adjust it for every different surface you are standing or sitting on anyway. 

 

[Anna Nova]

21 minutes ago, Rhonda Huntress said:

I have one shoe base in my inventory.  That's all.

I keep the hover slider parked at the top of my screen and adjust as needed throughout the day.  You have to adjust it for every different surface you are standing or sitting on anyway. 

 

How do you use that slider?  It wangs you right up in the air or underground, with no fine setting.  Or have a missed something about getting it to do fine things?

Edited September 12, 2017 by anna2358

[Sagadin]

1 minute ago, anna2358 said:

How do you use that slider?  It wangs you right up in the air or underground, with no fine setting.  Or have a missed something about getting it to so fine things?

If you are using Firestorm there is a much bigger slider available --- I am assuming you are using the one in quick prefs. Right click on your avatar, choose "appearance" and then "hover height." That opens up a much bigger slider than in the quick prefs.

[Anna Nova]

2 minutes ago, Sagadin said:

If you are using Firestorm there is a much bigger slider available --- I am assuming you are using the one in quick prefs. Right click on your avatar, choose "appearance" and then "hover height." That opens up a much bigger slider than in the quick prefs.

I AM using that one.  It's still far too coarse for me, hitting say -0.054 instead of -0.050 is impossible, but that is what I need.  Maybe I need a tracker-ball instead of a mouse.

[Bobbie Faulds]

One other thing to consider with hover. Be sure you are setting it on Linden ground, not standing on a prim/mesh/sculpt. Because of the collision boxes, if you stand on anything other than the Linden ground, ie the land with nothing else on it, your hover could be way off. I've had some shoes that when I set up perfectly on Linden land, I'll be a good meter off the floor in some builds. If I adjust it for that build, I'll be up to my calves on regular ground.

[Chic Aeon]

1 hour ago, anna2358 said:

I AM using that one.  It's still far too coarse for me, hitting say -0.054 instead of -0.050 is impossible, but that is what I need.  Maybe I need a tracker-ball instead of a mouse.

You can TYPE INTO the hover height box just like you would in most graphics or 3D software (or lots of other applications). No need to slide if you don't want to. 

[Morgan Rosenstar]

9 hours ago, anna2358 said:

2nd Edit:  I've noticed that when things get really out of control (e.g. when increasing platform height makes you sink...), a quick walk about with the avatar gets things back to a reasonable point.

Reading this, I would look if there's not something that can interfere.

I don't know what AO -if any- you're using but I've seen anims made for specific heights.

I would suggest to try and investigate step by step : unattach/unwear everything then start with just your meshbody, shoes and the shoebase and no AO. Check if you have this hover displacement or not then add progressively one by one the attachments that can override your moves and check when the problem does appear.

[Theresa Tennyson]

14 hours ago, anna2358 said:

OK, so something is happening that I don't understand.  Can someone help me understand this multidimensional problem?

And, is it possible to replace the whole thing with a scripted object - attached to the foot perhaps?

There's another factor - the animations your avatar is playing.

Your avatar's feet don't really know where the ground is - animations are played in space while your avatar is magically supported at a point somewhere around your hips. I'm assuming that you're setting your height using some sort of pose stand or fixed pose. The animations you're playing may position your feet at different heights above the floor.

If you look closely you'll see most avatars are actually hovering slightly above the ground to prevent their feet from digging into the ground with certain animations. Since the default view is looking down this isn't that noticeable most of the time. The solution to this is... well... to not look close.

[LittleMe Jewell]

10 hours ago, Rhonda Huntress said:

I have one shoe base in my inventory.  That's all.

I keep the hover slider parked at the top of my screen and adjust as needed throughout the day.  You have to adjust it for every different surface you are standing or sitting on anyway.

This and

10 hours ago, Sagadin said:

If you are using Firestorm there is a much bigger slider available --- I am assuming you are using the one in quick prefs. Right click on your avatar, choose "appearance" and then "hover height." That opens up a much bigger slider than in the quick prefs.

This

Also, I really don't worry about my hover height all the time.  When I arrive some place that I'll be staying at awhile - and will actually be standing rather than flying - then I adjust for that location. 

[Clover Jinx]

Can't you type in the box the exact numbers you need?

[Anna Nova]

OK, thanks guys.  I'm giving up and going for the 'approximately close to the ground using the big slider' option.

If I have to stand naked, and with AO off, on Linden Ground, just to get the exact value of hover, then it's not worth the hassle.

When I make objects for SL, I go to great lengths to make them perfect, or at least as perfect as SL will let me, but the avatar will just have to suck.

[angeoco]

I made a set of shoebases over the full range and include whichever seems best in each outfit, and leave hover at 0. Though it's a hit-and-miss game as the AO constantly shifts your position so one foot could be sunk into the ground while the other floats above.