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GraceAlexis

Note to landlords - Hurricanes Homeless in RL & SL??

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Hi,

    I never thought about this before so maybe landlords didn't either. But I just TPed to my best friends place cause needed a place to veg and build and saw a rental sign and had a property manager pretty much land on top of me in seconds. I know the renter was from TX, but my friend and her partner are in FL. There is a group listed with the property. Any of the others would have paid or figured it out if we knew it was due. Inside I find the place empty. The two others are without power atm in RL, their friends and family on mandatory duty as emergency personnel...SL is supposed to be our retreat but we lose it while in RL having similar issues.

 

It happened and can't be redone but PLEASE, PLEASE, landlords think that maybe someone who is a couple days late is in a similar boat (heck maybe in a boat cause I saw some of the scary TX pictures) If there is a group with the land please take the time out to try and contact them or something. Not that SL homes are as important as RL homes and lives but it hurts where our escape is gone on top of it all.

 

Please everyone stay safe from the odd storms life brings. 

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I'm not going to defend the landlord, but I do wish to raise some points you may not have considered. I am not arguing against you, just saying a few things. please don't be offended.

As a landlord, it's of course always nice to hear from my tenants beforehand "Hey there is a big storm near here and it may cause me problems for a few days" even "can I have a few days grace until i can cash a check". I am cool with those. 

The storm was known about for almost week before, no? Why didnt they tell the landlord they could be affected?  Everyone in FL should have if their teir was due this week and they didn't top it up beforehand.

So,, why tell the landlord you are in the path of a hurricane? Reason is: Did he know they were in FL, because as a point, I don't ask my tenants any personal questions, he might be the same. They could be from Berlin for all he knew.

 

I am glad they are safe and will pray for their continued safety, and that of all our US friends impacted by this unreal event.

Edited by Callum Meriman
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Just cause we had a week most either thought about their own RL prep...and personally I was in the hospital until thursday and learned about the storm while there so the whole week to prep was not the case - and had no net and computer so 'crap happens ' haha.

As my first line said 'I didn't think about it so maybe landlords didn't..." I just would hope people think and at least check out. Even a "nope don't wanna renew but thanks for thinking of my family and I" I took just as much heat with my comment I made on it so kinda hurt that you then just attacked me and my family

Since all in SL are so spread off I'm not sure all might think about it..it was a 'think please' comment 

Again stay safe all

 

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12 minutes ago, GraceAlexis said:

kinda hurt that you then just attacked me and my family

No, I didnt attack you or your family. In fact I am praying they stay safe.

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Ok I don't want to sound unsympathetic to those in Texas and Florida but for discussion purposes where would a landlord in SL draw the line in checking on their tenants ability to log in and pay.  There are wildfires, there are earthquakes Mexico, plus Italy and NZ this summer and other natural disasters around the world not to mention illness, loss of net for many reasons.  I do think in my experience a lot of landlords give at least 48 hours grace, can check in land groups last log in date and such but surely it can't be all on them to check.  I had a HD death at the same time my partner was on holiday, and via FB and skype was able to ask a friend to pay our rent for a week as it was due a few days later.

And for the record I didn't see any attack from Callum :)

I hope all involved are safe 

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1 hour ago, GraceAlexis said:

so kinda hurt that you then just attacked me and my family

If you think any disagreement with your opinions is a attack, you are in the wrong forum.

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1 hour ago, GraceAlexis said:

it so kinda hurt that you then just attacked me and my family

Wow...someone here has a super thin skin. Callum hasn't attacked you.

Also to be realistic here: People in SL can be from every corner of the world. While it may seem big for those who are close or actually in the area affected by the storm, its not that big on a world scale. Now it would be kind of a burden for a big landlord to assume all tendants who are late on their rent live in an area hit by the storm so badly, that they can't pay their rent on time. Most will just be late for other reasons.

 

Edited by Syo Emerald
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5 hours ago, GraceAlexis said:

Hi,

    I never thought about this before so maybe landlords didn't either. But I just TPed to my best friends place cause needed a place to veg and build and saw a rental sign and had a property manager pretty much land on top of me in seconds. I know the renter was from TX, but my friend and her partner are in FL. There is a group listed with the property. Any of the others would have paid or figured it out if we knew it was due. Inside I find the place empty. The two others are without power atm in RL, their friends and family on mandatory duty as emergency personnel...SL is supposed to be our retreat but we lose it while in RL having similar issues.

 

It happened and can't be redone but PLEASE, PLEASE, landlords think that maybe someone who is a couple days late is in a similar boat (heck maybe in a boat cause I saw some of the scary TX pictures) If there is a group with the land please take the time out to try and contact them or something. Not that SL homes are as important as RL homes and lives but it hurts where our escape is gone on top of it all.

 

Please everyone stay safe from the odd storms life brings. 

In all honesty, I would hope that SL would be the last thing on someones mind if they are hit by Harvey or Irma... If your RL home is in the path, chances are there wont be power for a while (at a minimum) or there (hopefully not) might not be a home to return to. We had a major blizzard up here a few years ago and lost power for a week. Spent the week in a motel with NO PC or access to SL. Didn't worry about my land once. Mainly because it was paid up for 2 months, but it wasn't anywhere near the top of concerns at that moment. 

You do have to realize, it is NOT the landlords problem if you or any of their tenants lose access to SL. It is a business. 

Just another harsh reality of life. 

Stay safe. 

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7 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

You do have to realize, it is NOT the landlords problem if you or any of their tenants lose access to SL. It is a business. 

Someone has to pay the tier -- it is unreasonable to expect landlords to pay the tier for their tenants on the off chance they may be in some disaster. 

Paying tier, for anyone who cares about their SL home, would just be part of preparing for evacuation, which, as noted elsewhere, people typically have advance note of. 

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1 hour ago, GraceAlexis said:

Just cause we had a week most either thought about their own RL prep...and personally I was in the hospital until thursday and learned about the storm while there so the whole week to prep was not the case - and had no net and computer so 'crap happens ' haha.

As my first line said 'I didn't think about it so maybe landlords didn't..." I just would hope people think and at least check out. Even a "nope don't wanna renew but thanks for thinking of my family and I" I took just as much heat with my comment I made on it so kinda hurt that you then just attacked me and my family

Since all in SL are so spread off I'm not sure all might think about it..it was a 'think please' comment 

Again stay safe all

 

Wouldn't the same factors making it impossible for them to pay rent make it impossible for them to respond to a message from their landlord asking if they are having problems in RL?

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36 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:

Someone has to pay the tier -- it is unreasonable to expect landlords to pay the tier for their tenants on the off chance they may be in some disaster. 

Paying tier, for anyone who cares about their SL home, would just be part of preparing for evacuation, which, as noted elsewhere, people typically have advance note of. 

See, without coffee I can't phrase my thoughts this well... Thanks to my daughter who killed off the cream... :|

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21 hours ago, GraceAlexis said:

I took just as much heat with my comment I made on it so kinda hurt that you then just attacked me and my family

Grace, that wasn't an attack.

It sounds like your emotions are understandably frazzled right now and you just want SL to stay the same while things go crazy around you. You want a place you consider a refuge from RL to be there. It wasn't, and the upset you're feeling about the RL stress and danger is getting tangled up in this.

Is that close to what's going on inside you?

If it is, may I suggest another way to look at this? What in the situation can you actually influence or control? If you (or your friend/s) own land, you have control over it and don't have to worry about landlords. (Other people being understandably difficult to control because they have their own needs of course.) That might make sense for you and/or your friends in the future.

You had control over what you did when you discovered what had happened. You said that the property manager was there immediately. How did that conversation go? Did the property manager give you the option of paying for your friend and getting access back? The furniture and all of that can be put back when its owner returns.

Which leads into the thing I think you most need to keep in mind right now - you'll get your refuge back. It might be different, but it's really about friendships not prims, right?

Those are some things which you actually have control over. IMO they're more likely to be better solutions to this time when so much is out of your control.

Sending good thoughts to you and all who are living through this.

Edited by Bitsy Buccaneer
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1 hour ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

In all honesty, I would hope that SL would be the last thing on someones mind if they are hit by Harvey or Irma... If your RL home is in the path, chances are there wont be power for a while (at a minimum) or there (hopefully not) might not be a home to return to. We had a major blizzard up here a few years ago and lost power for a week. Spent the week in a motel with NO PC or access to SL. Didn't worry about my land once. Mainly because it was paid up for 2 months, but it wasn't anywhere near the top of concerns at that moment. 

You do have to realize, it is NOT the landlords problem if you or any of their tenants lose access to SL. It is a business. 

Just another harsh reality of life. 

Stay safe. 

Ive seen people from FL who panic they won't be able to shop in SL events , when they house becomes flooded and loses power. EYE ROLL. Like you said, if i was in such situation the first thing id do is to get my bum out of there by any means possible, with my bf and cat ofcourse. Cant leave our furry friends behind! Anyways hoping everyone stays safe.

Edited by Jeny Howlett
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This is just one more reason that I own (truly own, not estate own/rent) my own land.

Grace - Disagreement does not mean attack, nor does it mean people don't sympathize with the situation. However, sympathy with the situation does not necessarily mean agreement with your proposed solution.

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As a tenant that has had to let land go in arrears, due to a rl emergency that I could, in no way, plan for...I sympathize with my landlords, not myself. Yes, it sucked when everything I had was returned and the land I loved so much was "taken back" as it were...but what really sucked even more, was going to my local ER when what I thought was a stomach virus resulted in me needing to be taken from my local hospital via life flight to a larger city, hooked up to a million friggen machines-including an in flight transfusion-and I don[t think you want me to continue that conversation, lol..topping all of that off with not knowing whether or not my rl children would ever see me again...yeah..that kinda overrides any "sucky" part of losing virtual land in a virtual world, regardless of how much I loved that land, how much my sl relied on that land. 

Rl always takes priority...always. 

I felt bad for my landlord, who did indeed give me a grace period, but I most certainly couldn't expect them to give me forever, their own sl livelihood relies on rent/tier being paid on time. I can only expect so much from them, and I would never dream of saying "well, you COULD have given me some more time" or "you COULD have thought about me". Neither I, nor my landlord, could have planned for that happened, but even if we COULD have...is it really the landlord's fault if something happens in my life? No, it's not. It's not my fault either, don't get me wrong. but come on now, reason has to play a role in these things too. My landlord, much like most, would have no idea where I lived, unless I told them, and I wouldn't expect them to make assumptions, in the event of a natural disaster. Anyone can SAY "hey, I'm in a disaster area, I need some time for my rent/tier please", but does that mean everyone who does so is being truthful? We all know it happens, though we'd much rather it didn't. People take advantage of things all the time.  But, life happens, all the time, whether it is a natural disaster, power outages, loss of rl income, health concerns....we really can't expect that landlords in sl can make arrangements for everything, or that they should. They, too, are people. Though I know a great deal of them will do their best to accommodate, it's not really fair to *expect* it. 

I'm not bashing you, in the least, I sympathize more than most people believe I do, and I would do everything I possibly could to assist anyone affected by a natural disaster, or, really, anything. My heart bleeds an awful lot more than it probably should(or probably appears to) for others.  I have friends and family that have lost everything in natural disasters, including their lives, at this point. I have a niece on her way up from Florida(thank you!!) who was due four days ago with her first child, and we're hoping beyond all hope she makes it safely here, without going into labor, lol(yes she will arrive safely, whether or not in labor is yet to be determined, lol). Though we've made arrangements in the event that she does, we have checkpoints in place along the way between friends and family, because we knew this was coming, she was supposed to leave Friday, but that plan fell through, so she left this morning. Even though her home is not in the direct path that we know of, we don't want her down there should she go into labor, she's safer in an area nowhere near Florida...just in case. I say this to say...plans can be made in most situations, though definitely not all. I don't say it to bash people, or knock them, but rather point out that RL situations matter so much more than Sl ones. Plans for your sl land are all good and well, though they're never really fail proof, and I know plenty of folks that DID make arrangements ahead of these storms, knowing what could be potentially coming, while I have seen others that did not, or could not..but, in those cases, those folks don't really care about their sl stuff, or land..because rl stuff, land, people..matter way more. 

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I don't think it's possible to do this. Sure, these storms have been slamming the south eastern US, but did you know about the storms hitting east Asia? Or the missile incident in Japan? Or any other emergency, disaster, crisis, or newsworthy story for any other country? At some point, it's impossible to watch every world event and give equal grace to every player. It's also impossible (and a huge invasion of privacy) to know where every tenant is located and what events they are affected by. You have to remember that most of these landlords could have thousands of tenants, and it would be beyond unreasonable to keep personal tabs on each one.

I know what you're saying and why you're saying it, but that's just not something that can reasonably happen.

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9 hours ago, Jeny Howlett said:

... the first thing id do is to get my bum out of there by any means possible, with my bf and cat ofcourse. Cant leave our furry friends behind! 

By all means take care of the kitty, but a furry bf can take care of himself.

As to the rental situation, incidents like this always seem super disruptive at the time, but they also open the door for new experiences. Not the same as having a reliable refuge through a stressful time, sure, but if one keeps an open mind it might be more rewarding in the long run.

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I am sure there are a lot of landlords that would be sympathetic if given the opportunity, but if they don't know where you live, or you haven't reached out to them beforehand—how is it they are going to know if your absence from SL is intended or not. That is just simply expecting too much.

You said yourself that you, or some others would have paid the rent had you known it was due. I believe you would have, but it wasn't. So how is it the landlord is at fault? Any extension beyond what is paid for is at the landlords discretion. That discretion to be influenced by knowing the facts.

At the end of the day, they have a business to run. Many don't make a profit, but instead take money out of their own pocket monthly to operate these sims. I am sure the they would have gladly taken that payment and extended the lease for you and your friends had they been given the opportunity.

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On 9/10/2017 at 9:27 AM, GraceAlexis said:

PLEASE, PLEASE, landlords think that maybe someone who is a couple days late is in a similar boat 

Are you sure it was only a couple of days late?   In my experience, most landlords will give tenants at least a few days to come up with the rent before doing anything, at least if the tenant has been there for any length of time and is normally a reliable payer.    That's from self-interest as much as anything else -- normally, the landlord will want to avoid the risk of having the parcel unlet for a significant time before a new tenant can be found, and will take the chance -- at least for a few days -- that the existing tenant will soon return and pick up the back rent.

 

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On 9/10/2017 at 3:27 AM, GraceAlexis said:

Any of the others would have paid or figured it out if we knew it was due.

The landlord did not know your friend was affected by the storm.
You did not know the rent was due.

I understand how you feel but look at it objectively.  Both of those have the same root problem which is a lack of communication. 

I would suggest that you plea be to everyone. We know that if you are in a dangerous situation that your personal safety is your only priority.  However, please let your friends know so they can take care of the little things.

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They must have been in the keys if they lost power that early..

5am the eye was still about two or so hours off the keys..

I just hope they made it ok through all that, if that's where they were..

 

 

Edited by Ceka Cianci
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I'm on the fence with this one.

I'm in Houston, TX in an area that usually doesn't lose power and only the street and garage flood.

I'm also responsible for... how many sims? (See how responsible I am?)

Harvey being Harvey, I let folks know I was aware and had prepped. Kinda like back with Ike and Rita... no, I did not get trapped in the bugout c-f- of Rita.

And, yes, I say folks. Or neighbors. I don't say renters.

If things were the other way around, I'd hope I'd show the same understanding with such things.

I know some folks dealt with the NYC hurricane, right now there's one know of without power from Irma.

A grace period is good. I mean, it's good customer service, especially among friends. A few bucks here, a few bucks there. It'll be ok.

Would be nice if they planned and prepaid and all, but when you're fighting over bottled water and peanut butter, first things first, right?

I'm more concerned than they're okay than a few bucks.

Or, if they went on vacation and forgot, enjoy. Relax. We'll deal with it when you're home and settled back in. Putting photos on Instagram? Cool.

Or a "Wow, that happened? Okay, chill on share of tier for a while,  focus on that, let me know when you're okay. We'll deal with it later."

Only really gotten burned twice by it I think.

One had a bad habit of not remembering when the first of the month was. So, yeah, that ended.

And the other, he was kinda busy with dying of cancer.

He did try to get word to me to just let it go.

But... nah. (Let it go.)

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I'm dry-eyed about this, totally. LL isn't going to wait on my tier just because my tenants may be in the path of a hurricane. People lie all the time about their rentals as every landlord knows -- people are always dying of cancer or their sister is dying of cancer and they can't pay their rent but then you see them "grief-stricken," dancing in a club in a new outfit. You never have any way of knowing if someone is telling the truth. 

But let's say they *are* telling the truth.

It's impossible to expect landlords to begin querying tenants about their RL locations or to expect that their lateness with the rent means they are in the path of the storm -- people don't want to disclose their real lives. I remember when there was a terrible earthquake in Japan, and some Japanese tenants were never heard from again and one could only hope for the best but fear the worst. In real life, people get sick or die, unlike SL, and it's not a card to play.

I really, really hate it when people play RL cards on you in SL. If you expect to be in the path of a storm, or you can't log on to SL because you lost electricity, then you lose your rental, full stop *because there is an overriding concern in RL*.. RL is more important than SL, always, and comes first always. If that impacts your virtual life, that's unfortunate but you can't expect to garner sympathy or exploit the situation -- that's just low.

I had one tenant in a cheap rental that costs a grand total of US $1.65 per month come on and complain to me about group liability debits which I insist on having in my groups to cover the costs of ads because I provide the option of moving to any other rental and getting the cancellation fee back. They are notified of this tiny fee of 4L in five different ways but most people don't read group charters and leases and there's always a tiny number that complains about what they view as the horrible affront of having debited a grand total of 5 of 6 cents a month *which is part of their rent*.

This tenant felt the group liability was a particular affront, then started in about how she was in the path of the storm, was watching her expenses because she had to evacuate children and an elderly relative. Naturally one wonders: if you have these grave responsibilities, and six cents or $1.65 per month are going to make or break you, say, in buying a carton of milk, WHAT ARE YOU DOING ON SL?! For God's sake, go to RL, refund, and come back another day, for God's sake.

Instead, she stayed online, complaining, ranting and raging, and finally I just refunded and ejected her. I then had to chuckle as a few hours later, I saw her unmistakable alt come on and re-rent the cheap cottage -- despite the storm supposedly bearing down. How do I know it's an alt? People are bad at making alts and landlords quickly learn to detect them. When refunded and expelled again, she expressed disbelief but then gave it up quickly.

Note: it's not about lack of sympathy for a real human being in a real storm. But it's about awareness that the place for that sympathy is in real life, not Second Life, where they ought not to be playing that card, and you shouldn't be gulled into being manipulated by it.

This kind of person who could try to get you to refund six cents because they may have a storm coming is manipulative and also not in touch with necessary priorities. I often find people imagining they are "cutting expenses" in SL by ending a rental that is even 65 cents a month -- it's all psychological. But then admit that even being on the Internet and paying for that cost is something that strains their budget, given their ostensible dire circumstances.

I had another person who complained bitterly when her $50L/wk camping rental was raised to $100L/wk (it had been on a special) when she was late 4 days with her rent (there's a two-day grace period). This, after refunding two people who grabbed it because she hadn't paid. Gosh, it went from 66 cents to US $1.35, the horror. Even at double the price, it's still essentially a subsidized loss leader that costs more in tier to LL than is made back. It's precisely because I offer a number of these subsidized areas that I feel absolutely sanguine about kicking people out after grace periods even if they say they are dying of a heart attack or on the roof of their RL house in a flood. Please go spend your six cents or your sixty-five cents in RL where it is supposedly needed people, don't ask me to subsidize your Second Life.

This camper went on to whine that she was on disability in real life and couldn't have these costs as a disabled person. Then...don't? Again, even if you are on welfare and disabled, if 65 cents a month is killing you can you can't pay about 16 cents a week on time, then you have more problems than a disability can explain. You have problems with your contact with reality and your basic common sense. I myself have had terrible family health emergencies where I had to ask LL if I could have an extension on tier, but they aren't required to be a charity and neither am I, and I accept that there's a bill due that has to be paid. What the people chiseling six or sixty-five cents from me with a sob story in SL about RL want is to *have that expense go away*. Sorry, that's not on.

I often find that people who are in the US $25 real dollar category whine less, are more considerate, and give more heads up than those in the cheap seats, who endlessly lie, cheat, steal. This is the way of life. I don't have automatic systems because I want to have a different rentals experience than many have in RL when they are turfed out by machines the minute their rental expires. But I have been taken advantage of too many times not to have a basic understanding of human nature: given the opportunity not to pay without consequences, a certain number always take and take, and whine if they aren't allowed to do so. I have certain long-term tenants who pay on time who have really terrible real life tragedies that I know are true and I try to cut them some slack to extend their grace period. But at the end of the day, they need to be in real life tending to those tragedies, not preying on my sympathies by playing the RL card. You don't turn into a pumpkin if you end an SL rental because you're in an emergency, or accept that you've lost a rental simply because you had more important things to do like getting to high ground than logging on to a game.

SL is not a necessity or a real-life need like a shelter in RL. It's entertainment, like a movie or a dinner out or a magazine. You don't say to the Starbucks barista that they should give you a free latte, or to the guy in the corner deli that they should cover the cost of your magazine because you're on disability or you lost your job or a storm is coming. You wouldn't ever do that in RL or think you could do it. So you can't do it in SL, either, the end.

 

 

Edited by Prokofy Neva
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On 9/10/2017 at 10:20 PM, Callum Meriman said:

As a landlord, it's of course always nice to hear from my tenants beforehand "Hey there is a big storm near here and it may cause me problems for a few days" even "can I have a few days grace until i can cash a check". I am cool with those. 

This, exact same story with me. I actually had someone owe me 4 months rent once because they were having a bit of a hard time with work, they had been renting from me for over a year and then they let me know a few weeks before the rent was due. I told them not to worry about it, just keep me updated if they are going to move out. 4 months later I see him start paying rent again, found out he got a new job and everything worked out fine. I ended up clearing most of the 4 months rent so he wasn't behind and he stayed for another year or so after that.

I generally don't evict anyone unless they are late and fail to respond to multiple messages though. If you are late and have nothing or very few prims rezzed I assume you have moved out, if there's still a building there I message to let you know the rent is due, I then try again later and if I still get no reply IO check when you last logged in and if you have been on but ignored my messages you get evicted. If you haven't logged on at all I'll ask anyone else listed on the rental. I try make every effort I can to contact my tenants before evicting them but a little warning goes a long way.

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