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System avatar - out of style?

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I don't think it's about change for changes sake though.  The argument always seems to be about how all mesh heads look alike, all have duck lips and in this case, since the person that started this doesn't even have a bento viewer, we're pretty much all blobs to them.  There is a snobbery often attached of "I refuse to go mesh and am therefore somewhat better for sticking to my guns."  If the person is otherwise a good person, I couldn't give a rat's patoot what their avatar looks like.  But to suggest I am somewhat less because I like the look of mesh for myself, just rubs me the wrong way.

To add:  My longest and best online friend hasn't changed his look since about 2009.  While he has expressed an interest in updating eventually, I have never made the suggestion to him.  His friendship means so much more to me then what his avatar looks like.  Yes I notice, but after about 5 seconds, we have too much to talk over for me to care one way or the other.

Edited by Sandy Schnook
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30 minutes ago, Sandy Schnook said:

His friendship means so much more to me then what his avatar looks like.

This!   My partner and my best friend both are still back in 2009.  These 2 men are the most wonderful people I know and I couldn't give a flying fig what either of them look like. I do tease them all the time and tell them I am going to force them to go mesh but to be honest the thought terrifies me as its me they will run to for help all the time

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If I tease my friend when he's on, it's always more about learning Windlight, since his occupation IRL is photography and he wants to be better in SL.  But he has other things outside of SL that keep him busy, so I just learn to enjoy our in SL chats.  I talk to him a few times a day on Steam though.

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On 9/17/2018 at 12:26 AM, dwirmjac said:

A year past the op, and I can announce with pride that it's the mesh-heads I still laugh at. They, to me, are just fish-lipped samey-clones. I've always found them coarse and ugly, made as they are by "creators" with no grasp of what constitutes human beauty. IMHO, a system head and traditional skin (very important) are the only ways to retain individuality in SL.

I don't understand how you can judge anyones head when yours look like a 10 year old boy dressing up as a middle aged mom

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19 hours ago, Chase01 said:

I am not sure how long you've been in SL, but the pouty lips trend started long before mesh heads hit the scene; so the look is indicative of the users preference. Back in the day people were sporting that look using legacy heads. True story!

i still have a system head. And yes agree, pouty can be done easy enough. Top lip fractionally larger than bottom. Slight overbite. Slight recede chin. Apply gloss lipstick. And done

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16 hours ago, janetosilio said:

“SL is a place where you’re freeeeeee to beeeee what you want to beeeee!”

Obviously some people want to be A holes

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just like every thing about and in second life , not only the content of the word is created by the users but also the culture including visual Identity 

when it comes to the quality of avatars   until 2 months ago i used to have an basic SL avi with mesh outfits and attachments and only recently i replaced every thing with the recent avatar upgrades which cost me over 10k , popularity grew in this past week to a ridicules amount , even my products which i only wear and share in world have gotten more attention in this past week , more so then the usual i would get in months   

i dont know if to call it a good thing or a bad thing but people seem to have OOONNNEEE issue with it all which is also mine , people want HYPER realistic visual and pay no mind to function which makes anything you buy dynamic 
MORE SO when it comes to OPTIMIZATIONS ,such high detailed modules need more and more PC power to render and handle and NO ONE SEEM to care for optimization ,aREALLLYYY powerful avatar that NO ONE can see or lose frame rates with you just standing in the view sucks , making it impossible to do anything else with you around , that kills any form of activity in SL aside from socializing thus SL started to seem only as a Dating sim when infact its not , good avatars are needed yes but you have to keep in mind that SL is a World , ts culture and use depends highly on its technical limitations and that of the user's And the creators leading the user's interest , this may seem like its off topic but think about it , is it ?do we all have to buy super ultra powerful PCs and have ULTRA powerful internet services just to enjoy basic aspects of SL ? or sould we have some one administrate the growing ate of AVATAR details which only seem to work in the Adult market of SL while killing optimization rendering all other activities almost impossible to enjoy ?   that is the real question 

Edited by vvvRavenvvv

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30 minutes ago, vvvRavenvvv said:

just like every thing about and in second life , not only the content of the word is created by the users but also the culture including visual Identity 

when it comes to the quality of avatars   until 2 months ago i used to have an basic SL avi with mesh outfits and attachments and only recently i replaced every thing with the recent avatar upgrades which cost me over 10k , popularity grew in this past week to a ridicules amount , even my products which i only wear and share in world have gotten more attention in this past week , more so then the usual i would get in months   

i dont know if to call it a good thing or a bad thing but people seem to have OOONNNEEE issue with it all which is also mine , people want HYPER realistic visual and pay no mind to function which makes anything you buy dynamic 
MORE SO when it comes to OPTIMIZATIONS ,such high detailed modules need more and more PC power to render and handle and NO ONE SEEM to care for optimization ,aREALLLYYY powerful avatar that NO ONE can see or lose frame rates with you just standing in the view sucks , making it impossible to do anything else with you around , that kills any form of activity in SL aside from socializing thus SL started to seem only as a Dating sim when infact its not , good avatars are needed yes but you have to keep in mind that SL is a World , ts culture and use depends highly on its technical limitations and that of the user's And the creators leading the user's interest , this may seem like its off topic but think about it , is it ?do we all have to buy super ultra powerful PCs and have ULTRA powerful internet services just to enjoy basic aspects of SL ? or sould we have some one administrate the growing ate of AVATAR details which only seem to work in the Adult market of SL while killing optimization rendering all other activities almost impossible to enjoy ?   that is the real question 

You can just as easily be a resource hog in system body/clothing/attachments as you can in a mesh body/clothing/attachments. It's just a matter of accepting your responsibility to make SL enjoyable not only for yourself but those around you, and then choosing how you spend your resources carefully. I can be totally in mesh and still be low impact, but I am careful to watch my complexity. There are those who argue that those complexity numbers in regards to rigged mesh don't mean anything as the numbers are borked, and that may well be the case, but I can still try to stay as low as possible by watching those numbers. I do hope that those numbers will become more reliable soon.

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34 minutes ago, vvvRavenvvv said:

do we all have to buy super ultra powerful PCs and have ULTRA powerful internet services just to enjoy basic aspects of SL ?

No. SL is geared to work on a lowest-common denominator hardware and network. That’s why performance is bad for people with old PC’s and slow network; you’re lucky it works at all.

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On 8/30/2017 at 10:46 PM, 00TK said:

Will I be laughed at if I don't use a mesh head?

Not by me. I do, however, laugh hard at people's profiles stating that they only wish to interact with people in SL who have mesh bodies and heads--profiles that have lines like: "Mesh only please. No systems' bodies." And then I am thankful that they put that warning in their profile, so I don't have to waste any time initiating any sort of conversation with them whatsoever.

As for mesh heads: I have resisted using one (even though I spent an arm and a leg on one years ago) for one big reason: the eyes weren't movable enough, and the eye movement HUD was way too bloated. I got a new mesh head literally last week, and I made a tiny HUD that enables me to move my eyes to any position I want, so I don't look like a lifeless botox mannequin doll from the Uncanny Valley staring right through you anymore. Maybe I'll make a few more eye colors in the future and toss the thing on MP.

Now just look at that handsome devil! :P

e8a27e984c9f2fa514c44a427d9d9231.png.e10747b9fb1ac8d8ca650c41dec4b399.png

Edited by Arduenn Schwartzman
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Oh this thread again. It's always fun to see the strawman of the small but noticeable number of Catwa Catya default shape clones used as a stick to beat the entire spectrum of mesh heads.

Storytime: I have a few friends who have a mesh body but a system head, and who put in the effort needed to make their head look both amazing, and to make it fit their overall shape. In one case I honestly had no idea they had a system head, that's how good they looked. So yes, you could use that to say that mesh heads aren't needed... but three of those people have upgraded to a mesh head in the last two months. And two of them applied that skill and effort to making their new mesh head look as good and unique as possible - and the difference is incredible. Both the guy and the girl look amazing now, truly gorgeous, far better than their previously attractive looks. The third was too lazy, and just slightly tweaked a Catwa default shape, and looks pretty good, but nothing special. But she can pull funny faces now, so there's that.

Honestly, it boils down to this: heads are just tools. Good quality mesh heads from a good creator are better tools than the system head, and you can produce better finished products with better tools. That doesn't make system heads automatically look worse than mesh, all depends on what you did with that head; but if you're interested in looking the best you possibly can (and it's okay to not care about that), then going mesh is a no-brainer.

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5 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

You can just as easily be a resource hog in system body/clothing/attachments as you can in a mesh body/clothing/attachments. It's just a matter of accepting your responsibility to make SL enjoyable not only for yourself but those around you, and then choosing how you spend your resources carefully. I can be totally in mesh and still be low impact, but I am careful to watch my complexity. There are those who argue that those complexity numbers in regards to rigged mesh don't mean anything as the numbers are borked, and that may well be the case, but I can still try to stay as low as possible by watching those numbers. I do hope that those numbers will become more reliable soon.

I've seen many default resource hogs.  In fact, if I'm out and see someone way, way, way over the complexity limit I set (I keep it near 100K) I get nosey and amp complexity up to see WTH they have on.  And EVERY SINGLE TIME, it's been a default avatar.  Every...single...time.  So far the highest has been over 3 million complexity,  Her flexi skirt alone had 5 layers so it poofed out.  Unless for a photo, I keep myself between 30K and 75K.

Edited by Sandy Schnook
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100 to 120k max complexity with ancient flexi-hair, mesh head, body and jewellery is my average. On a good day when I haven't been scoffing pixel chocolate I'll be 85 to 90k complexity. I think I'm doing ok not to be a total resource piggy ^o^ based on what I see inworld. Wearing quite nice mesh clothes & shoes too.

Edited by Maryanne Solo
Got dressed. ;o

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8 hours ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

Not by me. I do, however, laugh hard at people's profiles stating that they only wish to interact with people in SL who have mesh bodies and heads--profiles that have lines like: "Mesh only please. No systems' bodies." And then I am thankful that they put that warning in their profile, so I don't have to waste any time initiating any sort of conversation with them whatsoever.

As for mesh heads: I have resisted using one (even though I spent an arm and a leg on one years ago) for one big reason: the eyes weren't movable enough, and the eye movement HUD was way too bloated. I got a new mesh head literally last week, and I made a tiny HUD that enables me to move my eyes to any position I want, so I don't look like a lifeless botox mannequin doll from the Uncanny Valley staring right through you anymore. Maybe I'll make a few more eye colors in the future and toss the thing on MP.

Now just look at that handsome devil! :P

e8a27e984c9f2fa514c44a427d9d9231.png.e10747b9fb1ac8d8ca650c41dec4b399.png

While I agree that conversation between any kind of avi is awesome and should be encouraged, if someone wants something more specific,it's expected to point out what are their likes and dislikes. Judging someone by what they out on their profile have been proven as bad since one won't give the other the chance to really know their reasons behind anything written there.

I myself have that on my profile, but it's entirely about adult activities, I will never deny conversation with any kind of avi, friendship or whatsoever, but I will definitely not engage anything more intimate with someone I don't find attractive, simple as that and I take it the majority of the people adding that kind of info in their profiles have about the same ideas: kinky stuff.

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On 8/31/2017 at 2:25 AM, Ivanova Shostakovich said:

   /me looks at BilliJo competitively, then looks into the distance, where no finish line can be seen, and takes one... slow...... step.

Backwards I'm guessing?

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3 hours ago, BelindaN said:

Backwards I'm guessing?

The point is not everyone will jump on the mesh head bandwagon. 

Is a mesh body a major improvement over a system body?

Yes, no question about it, and with the right mesh body, you can match your system body shape almost perfectly.

Is a mesh head a major improvement over a system head?

No, not really, and no one has yet come out with a mesh head that you can use to duplicate your system head.

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1 hour ago, Phorumities said:

The point is not everyone will jump on the mesh head bandwagon. 

Is a mesh body a major improvement over a system body?

Yes, no question about it, and with the right mesh body, you can match your system body shape almost perfectly.

Is a mesh head a major improvement over a system head?

No, not really, and no one has yet come out with a mesh head that you can use to duplicate your system head.

Ahh but that depends on if you liked your system head in the first place.  I hated all the angles and stretching.  I couldn't get a good closeup at all without a lot of postwork.  I still do some postwork on the pictures I take, but I'm not spending a ton of time just making my avatar look smoother.  I spent a ton of time trying to eradicate the angles in world, but never with any complete success.

Edited by Sandy Schnook
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7 hours ago, Sylvannas Zulaman said:

While I agree that conversation between any kind of avi is awesome and should be encouraged, if someone wants something more specific,it's expected to point out what are their likes and dislikes. Judging someone by what they out on their profile have been proven as bad since one won't give the other the chance to really know their reasons behind anything written there.

I myself have that on my profile, but it's entirely about adult activities, I will never deny conversation with any kind of avi, friendship or whatsoever, but I will definitely not engage anything more intimate with someone I don't find attractive, simple as that and I take it the majority of the people adding that kind of info in their profiles have about the same ideas: kinky stuff.

+1.

I have an alt that goes to places with adult activity. Those places swarm with avatars who don't make an effort at all. If you want to get some with my alt, default feet and orange freebie male"attachment" is not a good idea. I am not there to hand out some charity to men who are too cheap to call some who is paid per minute instead.

Hypocrisy is the thing there, they are not in mesh, but goes straight for the females in all mesh. So to snub them is to hold up a mirror, turn their behavior back on them.

Edited by Marianne Little
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All this palaver over system vs mesh. If you want to wear a mesh head and a mesh body then wear a mesh head and a mesh body. If you want to use the system body then use the system body. Who actually cares. I switch back and forth depending on how I feel and quite honestly not a f*** is given to what anybody else thinks of it. As for those of you talking about people wearing mesh bodies in adult sims and not being attracted to system bodies, its a graphical avatar on a screen and has no correlation to the person that is actually behind the avatar. I never understood, perhaps except in terms of the complexity of some of these models, why people get to hung up on system vs mesh. If you want to wear one then wear one, if not then don't

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20 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

No. SL is geared to work on a lowest-common denominator hardware and network. That’s why performance is bad for people with old PC’s and slow network; you’re lucky it works at all.

am aware i am just begging the question as a way to make my point ^^

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20 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

You can just as easily be a resource hog in system body/clothing/attachments as you can in a mesh body/clothing/attachments. It's just a matter of accepting your responsibility to make SL enjoyable not only for yourself but those around you, and then choosing how you spend your resources carefully. I can be totally in mesh and still be low impact, but I am careful to watch my complexity. There are those who argue that those complexity numbers in regards to rigged mesh don't mean anything as the numbers are borked, and that may well be the case, but I can still try to stay as low as possible by watching those numbers. I do hope that those numbers will become more reliable soon.

as much as i like most of what you  said  i like how you over looked the purpose of what i  said and framed me like i am the D**k doing it lol

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