greek Wingtips Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 (edited) I totally think LL got it wrong when they allowed anyone to make different mesh skins and bodies and not designed a universal body so every can work from and design their bodies and skins around it, now its become so silly that creators have to make loads of different appliers for one item to satisfied the needs, causing massive loads of work confusing for members and newbies. Someone, I know just bought a mesh body consisting of over 10k in total only to find out their are no applier kits ready for personal use of tattoos so one spends 10k only to find it you cannot purchase your own tattoo, this surely cannot be right, If LL made a Generic Body then Designers could have work on that. and saved lots of headaches for members. Edited August 25, 2017 by greek Wingtips 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 1 hour ago, greek Wingtips said: I totally think LL got it wrong when they allowed anyone to make different mesh skins and bodies your world, your imagination, for residents by residents...that's SL LL only provides platform with some minor starting library, and difference makes only more possible... i'm sure you don't want to look like me 1 hour ago, greek Wingtips said: creators have to make loads of different appliers for one item to satisfied the needs, causing massive loads of work no they don't have to do that... they can choose to stick to one 1 hour ago, greek Wingtips said: confusing for members and newbies. Someone, I know just bought a mesh body consisting of over 10k in total only to find out their are no applier kits ready for personal use of tattoos so one spends 10k only to find it you cannot purchase your own tattoo, this surely cannot be right like everybody, also you, me and everybody who has mesh, i am pretty sure they will learn about mesh... we did... i see no reason they can't.. JUST... like we did: don't want everything done in just the first 5 minutes after creating the account... take time, look around... read descriptions, read manuals, read tips, read reviews, read blogs ...talk to others, (if one doesn't help another will) and not in the last place... read the relevant parts of the knowledgebase and forums. 1 hour ago, greek Wingtips said: If LL made a Generic Body then Designers could have work on that. and saved lots of headaches for members. it would even be worse... everybody the same base.. look at the TMP male... seen one, seen all... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greek Wingtips Posted August 25, 2017 Author Share Posted August 25, 2017 (edited) You missed the whole point, I not saying create one clone, am talking about a base model, then the makers can choose as to what the avatar looks like. it's not rocket science, just that all the accessories from all designers would work with the one base model. that's how it started and look at how many first generation avatars are difference so your argument it floored. Edited August 25, 2017 by greek Wingtips 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, greek Wingtips said: that's how it started thats not true, also the old layered clothing was not suitable for all, the designers made it for certain body types, on others it was like a clownssuit or potatobag. If you go buy a car, stereo set, tv, vid recorder, pc, mac, tablet , a.s.o you also know parts aren't exchangeble... often not even within the same brand. And are you confused by that? No, because you learned. Using mesh in SL is the same. Building too btw.. even in prims, without practice, knowledge and skills it won't work. If you want out of the box, use the starter avatars, but dont look around or expect to be selected as winner in the beauty contest. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitsy Buccaneer Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 I've seen several people write articulate arguments for an improved default avatar. It makes so much sense to do so these days. IMO the strongest argument is how complicated it is for someone new and how they face a big - and a lot of lindens - choice about which type of body & clothes they're going to invest in almost immediately. An improved default avatar would encourage more creators to make clothing and shoes for that (try being a noob female avatar without mesh feet), so new players could buy some clothes and wait till they get more of a grasp of SL before deciding whether or not to splurge on a proprietary body. About the only argument against an improved default avatar is 'breaking existing content'. There has to be a way to code in a choice so people could use the current default avatar if they really need to. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tari Landar Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 (edited) The sheer amount of mesh bodies and all that goes, or can, with them, may be overwhelming with some, but there is plenty of information available. Hell a quick google search will give you all the information you need. The fact that people make impulse buys without knowing anything about them beforehand is not to be blamed on anyone, except the one that made the impulse buy. We all do it, we're no worse for the wear. We learn from our mistakes in rl, why would sl be any different? It is entirely likely that your friend can indeed have tattoos, a lot depends on the mesh body your friend chose. But, again, a little bit of footwork would have prevented this rant in the first place. I'd personally rather LL stay out of the creation realm of things, and do the very basic minimum. I may not like the vast majority of what I see, but others do, and I think that's awesome. I also commend many of the mesh body creators for being able to come up with products that can suit a multitude of people. Perhaps not all of them, some are far less than, erm...good, creators...but most of them are pretty damn good at what they do, so I give them props. It may not be my style or even my ideal "look" (and let's not even get into cost, lol) but that's what makes this world go 'round...is it not? Had to add something... LL has *never been known for their ability to add, umm, the best content. It's not in their wheelhouse. Sure it would be nice if default avs were better..but they never really have been. That is what sparked the need for BETTER content, from day one. It helps to spark creativity in people, it helps to boost the economy in sl, it has helped to inspire people to get into creation in the first place. Whether we're discussing rezzable content, or wearable content, matters not. It is the very fact that LL avoids this area as much as they do(regardless of the outcries people have shared over the years since sl's inception) that allows so many people to do what they do. Edited August 25, 2017 by Tari Landar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Rosenstar Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 3 hours ago, greek Wingtips said: now its become so silly that creators have to make loads of different appliers for one item to satisfied the needs, causing massive loads of work confusing for members and newbies. No. There is Omega system. All the creators need to do is one applier. 3 hours ago, greek Wingtips said: Someone, I know just bought a mesh body consisting of over 10k in total What is this meshbody? When I bought my Belleza body, it was available only as a full pack of 3 bodies, 5k LD. Now it's down to 2.5k LD and all other meshbodies are in this price range so which meshbody can cost 10k? 3 hours ago, greek Wingtips said: only to find out their are no applier kits ready for personal use of tattoos Knowledge is her best policy and google.com her best friend. 3 hours ago, greek Wingtips said: If LL made a Generic Body then Designers could have work on that. and saved lots of headaches for members. No. Even so (and thank goodness they did not), it would not had spared any headaches because there's still to learn how to weight, to learn how to make an applier, to learn how to enable materials, and so on and so on... So a lot of headaches for someone who doesn't want to know. I was even hoping that everyone would had chosen to get rid of the disproportioned default avie when fitmesh avatars appaeared but easiness makes more money, heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monti Messmer Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 I see all the reasons others say why they should have not made a better avatar, but i agree to you they should have! Especially starters have a hard time not to only learn how SL works, now they have to dive into technology, google read try ... As i started it was only to find nice hair, new skin and play with the sliders. Now you need appliers, mesh body, hand, feet clothes that fit THIS avatar, HUDs to make all look even .... Well, it´s pointless they didn´t and so we have to deal with, nothing will change it. For the few people that are good in blender, it´s great. I do not want to learn this weird software to make 1-2 $ on a set of clothing that might fit 1-2 different mesh-bodies and 5 others not. Or dealing with mesh-body-makers that only support the major creators with a creators-kit and the rest buys premades and re-textures them. How boring Monti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 21 minutes ago, Monti Messmer said: Now you need appliers, mesh body, hand, feet clothes that fit THIS avatar, HUDs to make all look even .... i disagree in this ... you don't NEED but they WANT ..and nów... not tomorrow... first get experience and than scale up. Spending thousends of lindens and after a week getting bored and leave... tha'ts giving sl the bad name in this... too steep?..not only, but more: impatience of the player, and everything has to be chopped in managable parts, when it takes the slightest efford it's trashed or unusable, giving the seller a negative review for a excellent product. And of course, never read a manual, took a demo or checked anything... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chic Aeon Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 5 hours ago, greek Wingtips said: I totally think LL got it wrong when they allowed anyone to make different mesh skins and bodies and not designed a universal body so every can work from and design their bodies and skins around it, now its become so silly that creators have to make loads of different appliers for one item to satisfied the needs, causing massive loads of work confusing for members and newbies. Someone, I know just bought a mesh body consisting of over 10k in total only to find out their are no applier kits ready for personal use of tattoos so one spends 10k only to find it you cannot purchase your own tattoo, this surely cannot be right, If LL made a Generic Body then Designers could have work on that. and saved lots of headaches for members. Did the person LOOK to see if there is an Omega Relay for the body they purchased? There are ones for most every body except some very specialized ones. This would solve their issue, this assuming they want to buy a tattoo and not MAKE a tattoo (your post is a little confusing on that part for me). IF they want to make their own tattoos then there is possibly an Omega developer kit. Obviously it is very important to check and see what is available for the mesh body your are purchasing BEFORE you buy the body. There is a reason why some bodies are more popular than others, and part of that has to do with the ability to purchase items FOR that body. IF it is a newly released body then it is likely that a developer kit for appliers will be in the offing. And as many have said in this thread, most designers either pick a body or two to design for OR use Omega for appliers. They do not HAVE to make a version for every body out there. A few do, and that is their choice. I agree it is too much work and I wouldn't be one of the ones make a zillion versions :D. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Rosenstar Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 (edited) Read it as you wish but you're only showing off your ignorance. 1 hour ago, Monti Messmer said: I see all the reasons others say why they should have not made a better avatar, but i agree to you they should have! Avatar or skeleton? Because not everyone wants a human avatar with the LL skeleton. 1 hour ago, Monti Messmer said: Especially starters have a hard time not to only learn how SL works, now they have to dive into technology, google read try ... No, not the starters. All the popular human fitmesh bodies are using the SLUV_map template, same as the default LL avatar. To be able to do proper and fiting fitmesh clothings is not a starter's thing and even if LL would had released a default (disproportioned) fitmesh avie, it would had taught absolutely nothing on how to rig, weight, adjust a fitmesh clothing. Avatar and mesh clothing are still two different things no matter how many meshbodies (not enough in my preferences) there are. A LL fitmesh avatar would had provided zero answer on how to do fitmesh clothings. 1 hour ago, Monti Messmer said: As i started it was only to find nice hair, new skin and play with the sliders. (...) I do not want to learn this weird software to make 1-2 $ Blender to play with sliders and make new skin and hairs? Edited August 25, 2017 by Morgan Rosenstar typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greek Wingtips Posted August 25, 2017 Author Share Posted August 25, 2017 I cannot name the mesh body because it would not be fair but its the most expensive one with just the body starting at 5k when you add all the other bits, head and feet and hands so forth it ends up being 10K , As the reply using TV's radio,s that's stupid, I could say they all work because they all need a standard plug and electricity to work, so that argument does not stand.. I'm not saying stop creators from making a mesh, just that LL's should have made a Mesh body Avatar so people can have a choice and also it would be standardized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 2 hours ago, Tari Landar said: The fact that people make impulse buys without knowing anything about them beforehand is not to be blamed on anyone, except the one that made the impulse buy. So impulsive that they do not even read the item description that lists basic things like what is and what is not included with the purchase, what the perms are, what the item is compatible with etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greek Wingtips Posted August 25, 2017 Author Share Posted August 25, 2017 Thats my whole point you in a game that should be relatively simple, not having to read the terms and conditions and what works with what, that's the whole of LL' giving the member a choice of a Standard Mesh or a 3rh party one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Rosenstar Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 6 minutes ago, greek Wingtips said: Thats my whole point you in a game that should be relatively simple, not having to read the terms and conditions and what works with what, that's the whole of LL' giving the member a choice of a Standard Mesh or a 3rh party one. Since when we don't have the choice between default avatar and 3rd party fitmesh avatar? She spent 10k without checking what were the available compatibilities with this meshbody, it definitely has nothing to do with LL not doing a mesh starter avie. And speaking of starter mesh avies, you're outdated : 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talligurl Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 LL provides the opportunity for a free market. Some people would prefer that LL acts like a Communist State, and dictates to everyone how things should be, those people are wrong. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talligurl Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 41 minutes ago, greek Wingtips said: Thats my whole point you in a game that should be relatively simple, not having to read the terms and conditions and what works with what, that's the whole of LL' giving the member a choice of a Standard Mesh or a 3rh party one. SL is not a game, one of the differences between SL and a game is that games are equally simple or complex to everyone, but SL can be very simple or very complex depending on the preferences of the user. My SL is pretty simple, because I don't get, and have no desire to learn the more complex aspects of it. Yet I can still come here and do my thing and interact with the geniouses. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 1 hour ago, greek Wingtips said: As the reply using TV's radio,s that's stupid, I could say they all work because they all need a standard plug and electricity to work, so that argument does not stand.. so yo plug your tv and radio in, and thats it... must be boring to have only that one channel on that was pre promgrammed or one channel you luckely found ... you try making other views a little bit too easy ... and your own view too complicated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tari Landar Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 1 hour ago, greek Wingtips said: Thats my whole point you in a game that should be relatively simple, not having to read the terms and conditions and what works with what, that's the whole of LL' giving the member a choice of a Standard Mesh or a 3rh party one. Well that may be what your ideal version of a game, virtual world, online environment, whatever should be....However, that's not the norm. I don't know of any online game, virtual world, environment, etc.. tat doesn't have at least some rules, some incompatibilities, some learning....need I go on? We can't blame the overall creator(ie Linden Lab in this case) for the laziness that manifests in users, lol. That's just absurd to even think, much less say. I am assuming, to you, your friend, and probably a lot of others that $10k is a lot of lindens(it is to me too, lol) so, why would any reasonable adult NOT do a little bit of searching to figure out compatibility? There is only one creator of mesh bodies and components to such that I know of who offers little to no information about said body. Most folks shy away from that creator these days(ad have, for years, really). Ignorance isn't a bad thing, inherently, we're all ignorant on certain topics. Willful ignorance, however, is a bad thing, it causes us to (often) do and say stupid things we'll later regret, like forking out dough for something we don't end up liking when all is said and done. Ignoring the vast world of information right at one's fingertips to just later complain, is silly, at best. Of course, I'm sure we've all done that too...and we're all just as silly for doing it. Buyer's remorse is something I would venture a guess nearly all people feel at one point or another. It's super easy to blame our experience on someone or some thing else, especially when we realize after the fact that a few second search would have saved us some dough 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tari Landar Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Pamela Galli said: So impulsive that they do not even read the item description that lists basic things like what is and what is not included with the purchase, what the perms are, what the item is compatible with etc. Yeah, then there's that, which happens waaaaaaaaay too often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parhelion Palou Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 1 hour ago, greek Wingtips said: I cannot name the mesh body because it would not be fair but its the most expensive one with just the body starting at 5k when you add all the other bits, head and feet and hands so forth it ends up being 10K , As the reply using TV's radio,s that's stupid, I could say they all work because they all need a standard plug and electricity to work, so that argument does not stand.. I'm not saying stop creators from making a mesh, just that LL's should have made a Mesh body Avatar so people can have a choice and also it would be standardized. Mesh bodies all work because all they need is a standard avatar to attach them to. Your argument does not stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 I made my own tattoo for my mesh heads because nobody on the market had it..It's the same tattoo that I wore on my system head..There really is nothing to putting my own creations in an applier..it's pretty user friendly nowadays.. System clothes just always felt like a trouble shoot.. To me things seem so much better now.. Now I don't have to buy each color of some item I like,because most times they just put them into a hud..So much less room taken up in my inventory as well.. I'm happy with how things are today..But that's me..I'm not really too picky as it is anyways..hehehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitsy Buccaneer Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Are you guys arguing in favour of keeping the out-dated default avatar for the sake of making the SL learning curve harder for new people? Cause that's what it looks like to me. Improve the default avatar. Bring it more into line with today's screen resolutions and expectations. Give it Bento. Everyone benefits. And those who want to can still buy into a proprietary mesh body. It's not like that's going to go away. But maybe new users will feel less pressure to make those sorts of choices while they're still learning how to get around. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 4 minutes ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said: Are you guys arguing in favour of keeping the out-dated default avatar for the sake of making the SL learning curve harder for new people? Cause that's what it looks like to me. Improve the default avatar. Bring it more into line with today's screen resolutions and expectations. Give it Bento. Everyone benefits. And those who want to can still buy into a proprietary mesh body. It's not like that's going to go away. But maybe new users will feel less pressure to make those sorts of choices while they're still learning how to get around. I'm all for any kind of improvements.. I'm just saying it's not worse than it used to be.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 4 minutes ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said: Are you guys arguing in favour of keeping the out-dated default avatar for the sake of making the SL learning curve harder for new people? no because there are fine, not excellent, mesh avatars available in the library... named Starter Avatars for a reason... Those are good enough to make the first steps inworld. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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