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The hot and highly controversial topic of the day centers around cheating(?) in Second Life. Those who are married in real life yet hold a relationship in SL vs those who disagree. 

Please remain civil. Or try to. 

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No thank you. If you can't be bothered to write something - an opinion, perhaps - neither can I.

I have a huge downer on those who state a topic, and then instruct the users to 'discuss'. It gets right up my nose.

Edited by Phil Deakins
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Relationships in sl..much like relationships in rl..should be between the parties involved. I'm not convinced our anecdotal opinions would matter much in the grand scheme, nor change the opinions of those that don't agree with us.  I also know these discussions never end well.

So...

Have a sloth, instead...

just-a-comfy-baby-sloth-in-a-box-3090428.png.784bb55dc66bb3ba7d5ce5da022330d8.png

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

No thank you. If you can't be bothered to write something - an opinion, perhaps - neither can I.

I have a huge downer on those who state a topic, and then instruct the users to 'discuss'. It gets right up my nose.

Don't judge. We all have opinions on this topic. I'll share mine later today. Since its a long one, and I don't have time, I'm not going to state it until I do have time.

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It's an interesting thread. I never look in that section so I hadn't seen it.

It would be an interesting discussion here, and one that I don't remember seeing, even though Lil says they crop up at least annually. It was just the way that the op was written that got up my nose; i.e. state topic - discuss.

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Ok. My take...

The question is about cheating and not about the morals of right and wrong, so I'll stick to that. Without resorting to the dictionary, my understanding of cheating in the area of romance, sex, partnerships, that sort of thing, is when a person has sex/romance/etc. with someone other than the one who s/he is in a relationship with, AND knowing that the other would be against it. E.g. a 'bit on the side' that the wife doesn't know about. If the 'other half' is ok with it, then it's not cheating.

The question then is, can relationships and sex in a virtual world like SL be considered as cheating if the other half wouldn't approve. My strong opinion is yes, it would be cheating. There is no doubt in my mind that RL physical arousal occurs with SL sex. And, whilst I've only experienced preicous little of it myself, I have no doubt that real RL feelings also occur. Both of those are in RL, regardless of whether or not cams are used, and, if they occur at all, and if the other half would be against it if s/he knew, then imo it's definitely cheating.

Assume that I'm married in RL (I'm not). I meet a girl in SL and, behind my wife's back, because I know she is against any other woman getting me sexually aroused, we do things together that get my RL body sexually aroused. Would that be me cheating on the wife? Yes it would - because it's happening in RL.

Someone in the other thread made an excellent statement. Something like, if it needs to be hidden, then it's cheating.

 

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It would be considered deceitful in our house..I'm not judging anyone elses house.. I just know that if I have to be sneaky about something,then that's what I'd be..

It's why I don't have those kinds of relationships in SL or RL..

 

 

 

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I don't care what other people do with their private lives.I try not to judge and stress over peoples choices, even though sometimes they are pretty poor choices.

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Idc what people do, I don't try to get into their private life unless they invite me.

But as for my opinion, I'd say yes, this is deceitful unless both parties are aware and agree with it. But unless it directly involved me, it is none of my ?s wax.

Personally, I like open relationships, but if I were married IRL, I would still prefer my partner in SL to be my IRL husbando.

Edited by Chaser Zaks

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I would accept that the cheating you describe is okay because it is all virtual only if I were the one doing the cheating. However, if I was the one being cheated on I’d be totally against it because even a virtual relationship can share many aspects of a real relationship.

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4 hours ago, Chrismaky said:

The hot and highly controversial topic of the day centers around cheating(?) in Second Life. Those who are married in real life yet hold a relationship in SL vs those who disagree. 

Please remain civil. Or try to. 

Wow...what a sterile, artifical way to start a discussion. I wonder why you feel the need to discuss this topic that much.

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3 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

Ok. My take...

The question is about cheating and not about the morals of right and wrong, so I'll stick to that. Without resorting to the dictionary, my understanding of cheating in the area of romance, sex, partnerships, that sort of thing, is when a person has sex/romance/etc. with someone other than the one who s/he is in a relationship with, AND knowing that the other would be against it. E.g. a 'bit on the side' that the wife doesn't know about. If the 'other half' is ok with it, then it's not cheating.

The question then is, can relationships and sex in a virtual world like SL be considered as cheating if the other half wouldn't approve. My strong opinion is yes, it would be cheating. There is no doubt in my mind that RL physical arousal occurs with SL sex. And, whilst I've only experienced preicous little of it myself, I have no doubt that real RL feelings also occur. Both of those are in RL, regardless of whether or not cams are used, and, if they occur at all, and if the other half would be against it if s/he knew, then imo it's definitely cheating.

Assume that I'm married in RL (I'm not). I meet a girl in SL and, behind my wife's back, because I know she is against any other woman getting me sexually aroused, we do things together that get my RL body sexually aroused. Would that be me cheating on the wife? Yes it would - because it's happening in RL.

Someone in the other thread made an excellent statement. Something like, if it needs to be hidden, then it's cheating.

Physical arousal happens while fantasizing and while watching porn (whether real or simulated). Is that cheating? I think your explanation was probably superfluous given the last sentence of your post (which I more or less agree with).

;-).

Edited by Madelaine McMasters
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1 hour ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Physical arousal happens while fantasizing and while watching porn (whether real or simulated). Is that cheating? I think your explanation was probably superfluous given the last sentence of your post (which I more or less agree with).

;-).

It's not the same thing at all, Maddy, and you know it. One is getting aroused with someone else, and the other is getting aroused not with someone else. And my opinions ("explanation", as you put it) was not superfluous at all. My opinions are as valid as anyone else's, including yours, and that's what was asked for here.

Edited by Phil Deakins

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1 hour ago, Phil Deakins said:

It's not the same thing at all, Maddy, and you know it. One is getting aroused with someone else, and the other is getting aroused not with someone else. And my opinions ("explanation", as you put it) was not superfluous at all. My opinions are as valid as anyone else's, including yours, and that's what was asked for here.

You're sounding a little defensive, Phil. I did not say your opinion was invalid. I said that I think "if it needs to be hidden, then it's cheating" is a sufficient answer for me, making any (and therefor your) further details superfluous.

While it might be true that the OP will consider all opinions voiced here as being equally valid, that's his call, not ours. In general that concept is wrong (which I've learned by having it proven to my red face) and potentially dangerous. You'll never hear me make it in my defense. In fact, "my opinion is as valid as yours" would earn a demerit when I was on the high school forensics team and reminds me of the silly bromide proffered by brainstorming coaches... "there's no such thing as a bad idea".

I do not know that obtaining arousal via another person is not the same thing at all as obtaining it some other way. There are endless ways to corrode an intimate relationship and more are coming. It's only a matter of time (I think it's already happened) before people will cheat on each other with AI chatbots tuned to their liking, perhaps without their knowledge. I see a lot of grey where you may be seeing black and white. I do think that the act of hiding such behavior implies (but does not guarantee) a less than honorable intention and so consider it a satisfactory answer. Again, the OP may disagree.

And, back to the validity of opinions. You are of the opinion that I know that obtaining physical arousal via another person is not the same at all as obtaining it in other ways. I am of the opinion that I do not know that. In this particular case, I assign more validity to my opinion than yours. Doesn't that seem both logical and fair?

And finally, it's just not worth taking me so seriously when I end a post with a wink.

;-).

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8 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

It's an interesting thread. I never look in that section so I hadn't seen it.

It would be an interesting discussion here, and one that I don't remember seeing, even though Lil says they crop up at least annually. It was just the way that the op was written that got up my nose; i.e. state topic - discuss.

Well, given that I was away from the forums for much of 2011 until early this year, the topic may have fallen by the wayside, so to speak.  

In my early years on the forums, 2007-2009, the topic cropped up a lot - usually when one party came here to complain like the thread this issue came from, and said discussion went down this road.

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I will express my opinion, and my practice, you can judge me as a wicked sinner if you wish. I am married in RL, I have a clearly define notion of where the cheering line in SL lies. I will not allow anyone other than my husband to see my real self involved in any sexual activity, I do not trust my own heart to hear another man's voice. However I consider my SL charter to be a role I play, sort of like an actress in a movie. I can play that rolle as someone's girlfriend or wife, provided that other person also comes into it from the same approach, for this to happen, it seems he should also be married, and coming to SL to play his own role. In my two years in SL, I have only found one guy this works with, and at the moment our real lives do not allow us to be online at the same time.

I wonder why we assign special status to a relationship in SL, and treat it differently than other actions. If I rob a bank in SL, that does not make me a bank robber, If I set off a bomb I am not a terrorist, why then must my relationships make me a cheater?

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I'm still not convinced this will not end poorly, but..I'll play along..while I wait for my lab to let me in ;)

Intent matters, a great deal, in these kinds of discussions, but whose intent, or rather, perhaps that the intent means the same to all parties involved, probably matters more...perhaps. What exactly is the intent of the parties involved? Is it to be aroused, to reach climax, to feel wanted...to invoke these things in another person..I mean, there can be any number of "intents" involved. It would be difficult, for me, to make a blanket judgment about all relationships or even most.  Emotions tend to dictate a lot of what we do in life, be it rl, or sl. (of course they don't dictate everything). I tend to believe that relationships are not all alike, are individual, and shouldn't be painted with a broad brush. I don't care to get involved in others' relationships, as a general rule, mostly because my own morals, ethics, standards, beliefs, whatever you wish to label them, will *absolutely cloud my judgment of others..and I cannot, and will not, hide this fact. I can say what I would do, how I would feel, how my own hubby would feel, or what he would do..but that's about it.  What some see as not cheating, it is entirely likely I find it to be cheating. I'm probably a terrible judge of others in this regard, because I judge relationships in general pretty harshly. I see people in sl that say they are married in rl, yet have "loving" relationships with others in sl, sometimes they say their rl partner has no problem with it, sometimes they don't. Some say it is purely sl only and mean it, some say that and don't really mean it, some don't even know what they mean. My experience, though anecdotal at best, has been that more people have romantic(I'm not even sure that's the word that applies, but it seems to be what they're going for, so I'll use it) relationships with people in sl(elsewhere online too), and their rl partner has no idea whatsoever. I then think to myself...."if his/her rl partner did know about it..would he/she mind?", and then I start injecting my own feelings, emotions, morals, into it and I think to myself..."that cheating a-hole". See, I'm judgmental as all get out when it comes to relationships. I typically pride myself on being able to see others' perspectives, or at least attempting to..but in this case, I can't. My own opinions, thoughts, morals, ethics, feelings, get injected all the time. So it's best I not comment at all on others' relationships as to whether or not those individuals are cheating..since I know myself well enough to know I'd be a judgmental ass towards people about their own..erm..activities. :) 

For me, and me alone...no relationship in sl is worth ruining my rl relationship. I will not give others feelings that are reserved for my hubby. I will not give any of myself to others that I believe is reserved for him, including emotions, arousal, their own ability to be aroused by me etc.. I also don't draw the sl is sl, rl is rl line..and never have, which also plays a role here. For me, having ANY kind of romantic relationship in sl, roleplay or not, is absolutely cheating. I could and would never do it...ever(and there are few times when I feel one can truly say never, including me). I met hubby online, our feelings, emotions, thoughts towards one another developed over years, all begun online. I know the difficulties of having a long distance relationship and how hard it is to keep such a thing going, year after year, and I can't imagine ever even desiring to jeopardize that in any way, shape, or form. I never have...and neither has he...and we are all the better for it. If either of us wanted to get our rocks off while the other isn't there we'd either figure out a way to do that together, or take care of it on our own...there was no need for either of us to seek out another person to do that for us. I honestly can't imagine desiring that. Just as I can't imagine many people are as capable of drawing the rl is rl, sl is sl line as they like to claim they are(yes, some are, but certainly not as many as make that claim..I've run into far too many people over the years that clearly cannot, despite making such declarations). Which is why I am a judgmental ass towards people I feel are being less than faithful, and have no qualms admitting that. 

Edited by Tari Landar
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14 hours ago, Chrismaky said:

The hot and highly controversial topic of the day centers around cheating(?) in Second Life. Those who are married in real life yet hold a relationship in SL vs those who disagree. 

Please remain civil. Or try to. 

Run a search on these forums for 'cheat' or 'cheating'.  The previous incarnation of the forums were migrated here when they changed over to these, so all of that history is here to be searched.

Here is a link to the old original Resident Answers, which is where I remember quite a few discussions on the topic - do a search on them also, if you are truly curious as to others' thoughts and opinions:

http://forums-archive.secondlife.com/327/1.html

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12 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

You're sounding a little defensive, Phil. I did not say your opinion was invalid. I said that I think "if it needs to be hidden, then it's cheating" is a sufficient answer for me, making any (and therefor your) further details superfluous.

[I cut the uninteresting rest of your post out]

If, by defensive, you mean that the best form of defense is attack, then yes, I was defensive in the face of your silly criticism. And now I'll do it again...

I don't care if any parts of my posts are sufficient answers for you, making other parts superfluous for you. I don't write them for you. Do you understand now? This is a forum and, unless stated otherwise, post are written for all.

Edited by Phil Deakins

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5 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

I don't care if any parts of my posts are sufficient answers for you, making other parts superfluous for you. I don't write them for you. Do you understand now?

 

 

youmadbro1.jpg

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11 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Well, given that I was away from the forums for much of 2011 until early this year, the topic may have fallen by the wayside, so to speak.  

In my early years on the forums, 2007-2009, the topic cropped up a lot - usually when one party came here to complain like the thread this issue came from, and said discussion went down this road.

Ah. I misunderstood you then. Yes, we get people coming to moan about it when it happens to them. I thought you'd meant that we have dicussions as to whether or not it's cheating solely as an academic discussion, like this thread is.

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10 hours ago, Talligurl said:

I wonder why we assign special status to a relationship in SL, and treat it differently than other actions. If I rob a bank in SL, that does not make me a bank robber, If I set off a bomb I am not a terrorist, why then must my relationships make me a cheater?

If you rob a bank or set off a bomb in SL, you gain nothing in RL. If you have sex in SL then the chances are it will affect your RL body and mind. That's the difference. Your RL husband may be the beneficiary of the effect :)  If you can have SLex without it sexually arousing your RL body, fine. Just don't offer it to me :D  SL whores can do that, of course, because it's just a job, and they can churn it out even from a script without any emotions being involved at all. But I think this topic isn't about that. I think this topic is more about personal relationships, and those who do get 'involved' in RL.

Edited by Phil Deakins
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