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Just now, Phil Deakins said:

In no way, shape or form is that the definition of a game engine. You can do that with some game engines of course, but not with many or most of them. Many or most of them remain unique to the creators' games. For instance, WoW is a game, and has its own game engine, but you can't get hold of the engine to make and sell your own game.

Scroll back up and read. She specifically said both Unity and Unreal and those two are what we are talking about. But the fact of the matter is, ANY game engine is specifically used to create games that other people can play. Let me know when you can download and share whatever you create in Sansar. I'll wait. Because it will be never. Because sansar is not in any way, shape, or form a gaming engine.

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I'd already removed the content of that post when I noticed the word 'design' in yours.

Anyway, I scrolled back up, and read ChinRey's post, and I found that she didn't suggest that Sansar is a "game design engine". What she said was that it's "a set of tools for you to build a virtual reality". Her point was that it's a design engine, the same as game design engines are design engines. One is for designing virtual realities, the other is for designing games. She wasn't suggesting that Sansar is an engine for designing games.

Edited by Phil Deakins

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7 minutes ago, Chrismaky said:

Scroll back up and read. She specifically said both Unity and Unreal and those two are what we are talking about. But the fact of the matter is, ANY game engine is specifically used to create games that other people can play.

Well, I did actualy mention exactly that as one of the differences between Sansar and engines like Unity and Unreal. Perhaps I should have be more specific in that Sansar experiences are only available online through the special viewer but I took it for granted that everybody here already knew that. ;)

Edited by ChinRey

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3 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

Well, I did actualy mention exactly that as one of the differences between Sansar and engines like Unity and Unreal. Perhaps I should have be more specific in that Sansar experiences are only available online through the special viewer but I took it for granted that everybody here already knew that. ;)

No, you completely likened Unity and Unreal, both game design engines, to Sansar. Don't make me quote you xD

Edited by Chrismaky

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25 minutes ago, Chrismaky said:

Scroll back up and read. She specifically said both Unity and Unreal and those two are what we are talking about. But the fact of the matter is, ANY game engine is specifically used to create games that other people can play. Let me know when you can download and share whatever you create in Sansar. I'll wait. Because it will be never. Because sansar is not in any way, shape, or form a gaming engine.

I haven't been in there yet myself,so I don't know what all works or not..But they have a link to a market on the main page where it looks like they can sell stuff they create..

I mean if this is what you were  referring to as downloading and sharing..

https://store.sansar.com/

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7 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

I'm having trouble even installing Sansar in the first place, since the installer (for some reason) explicitly checks whether the computer meets the minimum requirements and absolutely refuses to let you proceed if it doesn't.

There's always the possibility that someone simply messed up the hardware data tables, missed or misspelled entries during coding, thus those checks toss an error...

 

5 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

 Maybe it is an "urban legend". 

Most expensive urban legend I've encountered so far, according to my transaction history. There was one letdown, though: no "simply buy the whole store content in one box" offer. ;)
Here's one of the original announcements, by the way.

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4 minutes ago, Chrismaky said:

Huh, I must have missed that.

That's understandable. This thread  is rather messy already.

With that little misunderstanding out of the way, the important point here is of course that Sansar to a very large degree targets the same market as the existing game engines as opposed to the traditional Second Life market.  Traditional computer games is very much something LL wants people to build with Sansar and architects, designers, museums and others are already using Unity and  Unreal Engine to create virtual showrooms - both free standing and online ones.

 

29 minutes ago, Chrismaky said:

As far as I can tell, you can't even get animations yet. You just...build something on a platform. Thats it. That is the entirety of Sansar.

JPG0809 already answered that with a rhetorical question:

4 hours ago, JPG0809 said:

Does anyone know if this is how Sansar is going to be for all time?

There will be more of course. There will be much more and hopefully very soon. LL is keenly aware of the problem and they know it's urgent so they're workign as fast as they possibly can. Unfortunately it may already be too late. What people see today is the first impression of Sansar and first imprssions are always important. They stay at the back of people's minds forever and they are also what rumours are made from. No matter how much improvements there will be later, how Sansar is today is how many people will believe Sansar is even years from now. There's nothing to be done about that now. All those of us who actually wish Sansar well can do, is cross our fingers and hope for the best.

 

29 minutes ago, Chrismaky said:

Also, its built around the concept of virtual reality. Something that isn't even mainstream yet.

Unity has built-in VR support now. Im not sure if Unreal Engine has but they are quite agressively marketing it as a VR platform.

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Thanks very much for the heads up, although i doubt you will see me there.

I think the computer i have would pass for non vr, but i can only raise 3.1 mpbs on dsl on a good day,

unless i try 4g mobile hook up, but that is a little pricey, and for me , that is just emergency backup.

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15 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I haven't been in there yet myself,so I don't know what all works or not..But they have a link to a market on the main page where it looks like they can sell stuff they create..

I mean if this is what you were  referring to as downloading and sharing..

https://store.sansar.com/

No, I meant as in creating an actual game and downloading that. For most people, you wouldn't be able to handle the file size, lol.

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9 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

Unity has built-in VR support now. Im not sure if Unreal Engine has but they are quite agressively marketing it as a VR platform.

Right, but its not mainstream. Yet. Personally I find strapping a box to your head a bit stupid but thats me. I prefer something like Google Glass VR way more appealing.

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11 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

And I saw Apple Fall sell all his stock at fire-sale prices for a week ($25-$75) and indicate that he will have a store in Sansar.

It's not that unusual for merchants to have special sales for various reasons.

If I understand you correctly, you think this particular sale had something to do with the upcoming Sansar release. That's certanly how several people understood your post.

I think I should point out that the Sansar release date was supposed to be kept a very closed secret until July 31st. Only Linden Lab empoyees knew about it. The news were accidentally leaked on July 28th but if anybody outside LL knew about it even before that date, they must have had some very, very special inside information.

But I don't really believe there is a connection at all. the dates aren't actually that close and July is a very obvious month to hold fire sales anyway. Besides, what could such a connection actually be? It's not as if you need to raise a lot of extra cash fast to establish yourself on the Sansar market.

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20 minutes ago, Chrismaky said:

Right, but its not mainstream. Yet. Personally I find strapping a box to your head a bit stupid but thats me. I prefer something like Google Glass VR way more appealing.

That's also a very important point.

Ebbe was very clear fairly early that they did not take strap-on-smartphone style headsets like Google Cardboard seriously. LL was focusing entirely on high end products like Oculus Rift and betting on the belief that VR would become mainstream reasonably soon.

Nobody can yet be sure if VR headsets will take off but if that happens, what the masses will do is buy cheap racks for their smartphones and strap them to their heads in front of their eyes. If there is ever going to be a mass market for VR headsets, it will be for the cheap ones. That is absolutely one hundred percent guaranteed - no doubt whatsoever.

 

(Edit: on second thought, maybe Linden Lab has adjusted their view on budget VR headsets after Ebbe wrote them off? Does anybody eghre know anything about that?)

Edited by ChinRey

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9 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

That's also a very important point.

Ebbe was very clear fairly early that they did not take strap-on-smartphone style headsets like Google Cardboard seriously. LL was focusing entirely on high end products like Oculus Rift and betting on the belief that VR would become mainstream reasonably soon.

Nobody can yet be sure if VR headsets will take off but if that happens, what the masses will do is buy cheap racks for their smartphones and strap them to their heads in front of their eyes. If there is ever going to be a mass market for VR headsets, it will be for the cheap ones. That is absolutely one hundred percent guaranteed - no doubt whatsoever.

 

(Edit: on second thought, maybe Linden Lab has adjusted their view on budget VR headsets after Ebbe wrote them off? Does anybody eghre know anything about that?)

Strapping a box to your head also extends to the high end models. They all look like people are wearing modern versions of View Masters. 

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1 hour ago, ChinRey said:

Ebbe was very clear fairly early that they did not take strap-on-smartphone style headsets like Google Cardboard seriously. LL was focusing entirely on high end products like Oculus Rift and betting on the belief that VR would become mainstream reasonably soon.

Ebbe has a proven track record of being wrong, hence why he no longer works at Microbloat, and why the US Patents Office considered making a Fast Track "Is your name Ebbe" Process for denying Patent Applications...

Bakc when our Glorious Leader made an official blog post with a picture of himself holding an Occulus Vomit-Cam headbox, and mentioned his philosophy, that sooner or later somebody might try to destroy SL, and if that was going to happen, he felt it should be LL who did it first and thus Project Stupid was born...

It was going to be  SL-2, but on a rented cloud system so they would pay less for server storage and maintenance costs, then somebody must have quoted them a price for clouding SL's petabyte of assets and "NO SL-1 content will transfer over to Project Stupid".

Cue massive disinterest from SL-1 users who hated the idea of higher membership fees to look like crap for years while contest creators re created a whole new economy in Project Stupid. Goodbye Vomit-Cam based Plan-A SL-2.

Then the tech illiterate corporate finance "Computers are not meant to be fun but educational and intellectual" thing kicked in and Project Stupid was reworked into Plan-B, a Vomit-Cam based High Brow Art Gallery!

Then they realised theres bugger all money to be made in Vomit-Cam Art Galleries, so Plan-C Corporate Vomit-Cam based product showroom...

There was always the assumption in Plan B, and C that they had to go ultra high spec high end high price so the Art/Products would look really impressive, not just some cheapo popularist low brow game engine... tsk tsk tsk...

Now it seems to be shifting to Plan-D, a place where tech illiterate cyber geeks can build their very own Vomit-Cam based Immersive First Person Shooter Mini-MMO with out having to spend millions of their own dollars hiring coders and content makers, and marketing people!

Democritisation of lowest common denominator online gaming, but the platform doesn't seem well suited to that so far.

So, give Project Stupid say, a year to switch to Plan-E (whatever madness that will be) then another year of LL keeping it open out of Hubris because closing it as soon as they finish installing the basics for Plan-E would make them look bad, then the money pit will finally be allowed to fail...
 

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I registered for Sansar today but my computer's not up to the spec so I couldn't download the client.  Never mind, my computer's not brilliant for SL anyway so maybe in a few months I'll get a new one . . .hoping . . .hoping.

In the meantime I'll keep an eye on users' screenshots and videos of Sansar :)

Edited by Conifer Dada

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13 hours ago, Derek Torvalar said:

You can jump between Experiences Phoebe. 

Though at this point it takes about 5 minutes or more to load each one.

Not if you where there before, it get cached. So second time it load faster. especially from ssd.

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15 hours ago, Phoebe Avro said:

too many people in sl think Sansar is going to be sl2

The official posting on the main blog completely denies that, which is cool!

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See Medhues video in the other thread.

Left click while holding Ctrl to bring up the TP around a scene function.

No running jumping or sitting. You can kick objects around and VR people can manipulate, pick up objects.

Right click to cam around the scene, also while in build.

https://help.sansar.com/hc/en-us Explains how to do most stuff in  there.

Email today for me about pricing. Free is build 3 Experiences. Creator you can build 5 for 9.99/month. Super Creator can build 10 Experiences for 29.99, and Professional can build 20 Experiences for 99.99 per month. These all have varying levels of Support from simple email to email 2 day guarantee for Creator up to Phone Support and Live Web for Pro.

And I do have SSD  and 150Mb/s internet and haven't tried the revisiting to see if it loads faster.

Sandollars are 1000 for $10 US on the Sandex.

 

Edited by Derek Torvalar

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2 hours ago, ChinRey said:

It's not that unusual for merchants to have special sales for various reasons.

If I understand you correctly, you think this particular sale had something to do with the upcoming Sansar release. That's certanly how several people understood your post.

I think I should point out that the Sansar release date was supposed to be kept a very closed secret until July 31st. Only Linden Lab empoyees knew about it. The news were accidentally leaked on July 28th but if anybody outside LL knew about it even before that date, they must have had some very, very special inside information.

But I don't really believe there is a connection at all. the dates aren't actually that close and July is a very obvious month to hold fire sales anyway. Besides, what could such a connection actually be? It's not as if you need to raise a lot of extra cash fast to establish yourself on the Sansar market.

ChinRey, I don't know whether you're being deliberately coy here.

The obvious connection to a fire sale in SL and the opening of Sansar is that if you thought Sansar was going to be wildly popular and you didn't think your SL goods would "port," you might firesale your SL stock because people are going to stampede to Sansar and leaving you without customers in SL.

The fact that the Sansar open beta was coming in July must have been SL's worst-kept secret if even I heard about it. 

However, in the case of this merchant, I simply asked him. He said while he was going to have a store in Sansar eventually, he didn't have one yet. He wasn't "moving" to Sansar in the sense of "moving out" of SL. His goods are back to sale at the regular price now in SL and still selling at that price, he says. He's making new items for SL. 

But it's a COMPLETELY reasonable deduction to make, and this merchant may be coy as well. Now that I've seen Sansar, I don't think it will necessary sap the people and markets out of SL instantly, but it will have some impact and as it gets better, maybe more.

 

Edited by Prokofy Neva

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6 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I simply asked him.

You should have done that before you spread FUD.

The answer did not match your assumptions though, and so you write it off as being deliberatly coy? :SwingingFriends:

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@arton Rotaru it's not "spreading FUD" but making reasonable deductions that you don't want to hear like Chicken Little.

And I asked him but he didn't answer right away.

Finally, no merchant -- like Linden Lab itself -- is going to say "I think SL is dying and I want to extract as much cash out of you customers as I can before I quit it".

Of course they will give you some patter about how they will be in both worlds etc.

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3 hours ago, ChinRey said:

What people see today is the first impression of Sansar and first imprssions are always important. They stay at the back of people's minds forever and they are also what rumours are made from. No matter how much improvements there will be later, how Sansar is today is how many people will believe Sansar is even years from now.

Yep. A steaming pile.

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10 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

but making reasonable deductions that you don't want to hear like Chicken Little.

Who is Chicken Little, and why would I don't want to hear reasonable deductions?

That's just rethorical questions indeed. But, keep entertaining me. :SwingingFriends:

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