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I logged in 10 or 12 times now. Saw a lot of experiences. Some look awesome and interesting.


My interest in Sansar is fading now. Only thing you can do there is walk around and look around.

It is the same as many places and sims you will find in the destinations folder of SL. Beautyfull places but after 2 or 3 visits you dont go there anymore.There is no interaction and things get boring soon.
 

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I went in again today .. this time with headset and touch controllers  for the hands. It worked well insofar as I eventually and reasonably quickly figured out how to move around.

I had a great walk around in the haunted graveyard space.

I do think/hope that headsets etc will become 'normal' in just a few years. I'm lovin mine, but ive always been a 3D nut. Good luck LL^^.

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Too many people expected Sansar to be some kind of Second Life 2. And this it isn´t, neither right now nor in the future.

When I hear some people say "Oh, it´s beta, wait for some time until these and these SL features will get added", that´s just wishful thinking. When SL was made public, in 2004/05 almost all of the well known, basical SL features were there, not really working well, but well enough. Sansar simply does not have these typical SL features, and I conclude that it never will have them, not even in three years (if not someone pulls the plug before).

It´s made for headsets, not for desktop, and that´s the point. It never was in the plans to develop an "SL like" app for desktop, and even if there is a backdoor plan B, Sansar never ever will come even close to the advanced funcionality of Second Life.

Just forget it. It´s not made for the Second Life crowd, it´s made for whomever else. Maybe LL will succeed with attracting the goggle pioneers,, maybe not. Hard to tell. Anyways, good luck with that, LL.

 

 

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11 hours ago, Tholan Nohkan said:

Seems to me Sansar is, all xbox no world.

 

Right, It is NOT a world in the sense of Second Life. It is thought to be platform for 3D artists, some kind of interactive internet showcase for certain groups, or a simple and effective platform for all kinds of small or freelancing social game developers. But it is NOT world.

It´s not xbox. It is much more comparable to Unity, and my impression is that, despite some similarities to Blue Mars, Unity was what they had on their mind when they decided to start with something different from Second Life. Unity plus VR, plus UGC, plus provider service, simplified.

It totally will depend on what these creator/showcase/business groups they target will make out of it, within the simplified functionality framework. While Second Life, in first place, targets the "user", Sansar targets the "creators", or better "this is MY little space" people in VERY first place. And THESE people/groups will have to adress and attract the user, NOT Linden Lab. So no one should ever expect the SL like, advanced "shared world" character in regards to Sansar..

Edited by Vivienne Schell
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54 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said:

It´s made for headsets, not for desktop, and that´s the point.

Right, it has to be focused on HMD because that's what Second Life can't do very well. Sansar in it's current state reveals pretty much what an outstanding, highly sophisticated product Second Life actually is. It may not have the most up-to-date infrastructure under the surface, but the product above the surface is still unmatched.

Edited by arton Rotaru
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9 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Propaganda. Come on, Luna, they are onto this for several years (even before it was "officially" announced). And now they are "fast" out of a sudden? One more from the PR department to keep at least some SL people interested. Cause the general public does not care much at all. In regards to Linden Lab one is better off with only believing in what is actually there. Always.

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8 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said:

Propaganda. Come on, Luna, they are onto this for several years (even before it was "officially" announced). And now they are "fast" out of a sudden? One more from the PR department to keep at least some SL people interested. Cause the general public does not care much at all. In regards to Linden Lab one is better off with only believing in what is actually there. Always.

I'm not sure what you're implying by "fast out of a sudden". It has taken a long time, but they do explain why (wanting total control instead of using another game engine).
The way I see it is that they had to get a foundation out for others to do things with. Background comes first -- I mean we can't be dancing and playing with our butts in mid-air.  Once they got a pretty good foundation going they opened it up.

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52 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I'm not sure what you're implying by "fast out of a sudden". It has taken a long time, but they do explain why (wanting total control instead of using another game engine).
The way I see it is that they had to get a foundation out for others to do things with. Background comes first -- I mean we can't be dancing and playing with our butts in mid-air.  Once they got a pretty good foundation going they opened it up.

Sorry, but four years and more just for re-inventing the wheel? Game engines aren´t really rocket science. And the result isn´t even close to "pretty good". Nice shaders, yes. Direct X can do better, anyway. Ahem. I´m not overly optimistic, but i wish them good luck with competing with very similar and by far more advanced stuff ot there in the near future.

Edited by Vivienne Schell
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2 hours ago, Vivienne Schell said:

When I hear some people say "Oh, it´s beta, wait for some time until these and these SL features will get added", that´s just wishful thinking. When SL was made public, in 2004/05 almost all of the well known, basical SL features were there, not really working well, but well enough. Sansar simply does not have these typical SL features, and I conclude that it never will have them, not even in three years (if not someone pulls the plug before).

 

Second Life went public in mid-2003 and the economy and landownership were completely different.

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27 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Second Life went public in mid-2003 and the economy and landownership were completely different.

 

But land was not. Nor navigation, inventory and everything basical related to gameplay. The economy, allright. There was none in the "beta", as far as i remember. But users invented one. Sansar already has an "economy" tool. But it lacks almost any other SL feature which SL came up with in 2004. 13 years ago. Ahem. Sansar simply is a completely different pair of shoes, and i wonder why some people still insist on this SL 2 fata morgana. It will not happen.

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2 hours ago, arton Rotaru said:

Right, it has to be focused on HMD because that's what Second Life can't do very well. Sansar in it's current state reveals pretty much what an outstanding, highly sophisticated product Second Life actually is. It may not have the most up-to-date infrastructure under the surface, but the product above the surface is still unmatched.

Unfortunately most users nor the general public honor this fact. Most only judge by the graphics, which SEEM to look outdated. But for valid reasons like exclusively user generated content and a few other obstacles like a customer base using mostly underpowered configurations they can´t look much better. Nothing matches Second Life, still, and that´s the reason why any other attempt to compete on the same commercial level failed in this niche - and SL is still is running after 13 years.. And that´s why Linden Lab never seriously did nor wiil ever try to come up with a "Second Life 2.0". They cannot top themselves there.

I only hope that they will be able to update SL in a reasonable fashion, adapt to the ever changing user base interests and keep it alive for another 13 years. And Sansar? Looks more like an attempt to serve & volley on a different market, in a different niche.

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I think in a few years enough people will have machines and headsets that are powerful enough. Gamers for instance will all make the transition imho. So then its just a question of content. There are two things that SL has shown are must-haves. Avatar personalisation and the ability to go the way of 'hot & heavy' interaction.

Everyone would have to pick a basic no-mod avatar (except for sliders and inworld radio buttons). Attachments can then be anything. Spaces will obviously be able to set to accept only 'General' or 'Any' avatars. Growth happens fast from that point on, though it may take a few years, as it did for SL. Its early days, but it will be exciting to watch a vr future unfold :) 

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11 minutes ago, Zed Avedon said:

I think in a few years enough people will have machines and headsets that are powerful enough. Gamers for instance will all make the transition imho. So then its just a question of content. There are two things that SL has shown are must-haves. Avatar personalisation and the ability to go the way of 'hot & heavy' interaction.

Everyone would have to pick a basic no-mod avatar (except for sliders and inworld radio buttons). Attachments can then be anything. Spaces will obviously be able to set to accept only 'General' or 'Any' avatars. Growth happens fast from that point on, though it may take a few years, as it did for SL. Its early days, but it will be exciting to watch a vr future unfold :) 

There are no gamers in SL and never were. Gamers hang out in pro games made by pros with pro gameplay, and this will not change. Hopefully some Sansar experiences will be good enough for a gamer to try them, but i seriously doubt that this will ever happen.

I doubt that there ever will be adult content in Sansar, for a lot of reasons. And because of that...forget about any kind of "hot & heavy" interaction.

 I think that the avatar fetishism is something SL specific, ten millions of WoW users - and whatever other mainstream game/platform users - get along just fine with their "system grunts". So why should LL bother too much? Sansar does not target the SL crowd, it reaches out for a different audience with a different purpose.

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On Friday I finally went to look around just a little, and skim the scripting API. "Not yet" is pretty much what I took away from it. I didn't expect much scripted content, but I wasn't prepared for how little is actually possible now. It's not clear to me that there's anything a scripter can do there that hasn't been done already, and that's nearly nothing at all. I mean, that's fine, gotta start somewhere, but I've never before felt so utterly bereft of possibilities in a programming environment.

I'm a little worried, though, that it may never get all that much better, skepticism stemming from the weird way updating the scripts seems to be tied to updating the whole experience in which they live. I can't figure out how that was ever even an idea, unless there's some mighty shaky architecture under this thing.

On the other hand, some of the experiences are pretty. Much like a vastly oversized but very well implemented all-mesh SL sim, in Ultra graphics only, just for photographers -- there's essentially no interacting with these experiences, and even navigating or camming through them gets tedious fast. Well, at least for me it does. But in SL too I can rarely tolerate more than ten minutes at an LEA exhibit before getting antsy -- and LEA repeatedly came to mind while in Sansar. "Oh. Hmm. Yeah, I guess I appreciate the aesthetic appeal. Now what?"

But back to the architecture for a bit. Does anybody know why it takes so dreadfully long for an experience to load? Is all that time spent with the network pipe wide full of experience content being downloaded from a CDN somewhere? If so, and if that means the entire experience is always downloaded before the curtain is lifted, then are we sure this can scale? I mean, it's cool and all, having everything pre-loaded, so streaming it won't compete with dynamic content (arriving avatars and their eventual animation, and whatever scripts are eventually able to do). Maybe client-side caching can make this loading less network intensive.

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@Zsigmond Alcott Okay, Ziggy. I now have had the Sansar experience. It is very pretty. It does not look like a Beta to me because there seems to be a ton of work that needs to be done. Once finished, I think it might be very good for role playing maybe combat. Avatars and motions need much improvement. My load times were not bad at all. My FPS were in the 60 range. Maybe I can say goodbye to SL after all.

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I haven't read this thread since the beginning but did a speed read just now.  I am not all that enthusiastic about going over BUT I also thought "well I should make and account and SAVE MY NAME just in case I wanted to go over later.  Following breadcrumbs from Strawberry's site I ended up at a page about getting started in Sansar and THIS text leaped out at me:

Avatar Names are not unique and it is possible for multiple users to share the same Avatar Name. For example, there can be multiple users named “John Smith” in Sansar. However, while multiple users can have the same Avatar Name, they cannot have the same Avatar ID.

From: http://sl.governormarley.com/?p=6002

One of the things I have been most interested in (after I figured out that building there would likely be much like building for Opensim in that you are being "supportive" of the platform but not getting a return on your time) was seeing how many of those early promises  got lost over the years. Of course we didn't know it was going to be so many years long ago LOL.  Well ONE "promise" was that our avatar names would migrate over along with our Linden balances which would be usable in both worlds (not the same currency but like Francs to Pounds or whatever). Obviously THAT isn't happening. 

I still believe that plans got changed mightily from the time of the announcement and where we are now. No way of knowing why but unless all the things told to us (mostly be Ebbe) were lies (and I do doubt that) then what was planned at the beginning never had a chance to happen.

So no reason to head over and save my name for the future.  I hope Sansar finds its audience but it was fairly obvious from the beginning and the very long history through many CEOs of The Lab not listening to what the citizens wanted, that Sansar was not going to be a big draw for the large majority of SLers. 

It isn't just the remarks on this forum that are negative. This less than resounding applause is everywhere. I haven't actually heard any loud clapping from anyone and including a few reports from folks who seemed to WANT to say nice things but walked around the subjects at hand; a hard line to balance for sure.

The store is less than exciting with lots of public domain "paintings", some things which look like they were lifted from the web and many items that make Kitely Market look good. I am wondering where all the items from those top SL creators are. I didn't find a search area or even categories. Maybe they are coming. But after scrolling for a few minutes I was very bored. 

https://store.sansar.com/

 

So those are my thoughts.   

At least for now :D. 

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If I've understood it correctly, avatar names are equivalent to SL's display names. Avatar IDs are equivalent to SL's user name. When I signed up there was a message about being able to use my SL name as my ID, but that the capability wasn't ready yet. It said you'd get a message that the name was already taken if you tried. Since then I've heard that LL has backed off from the SL name as ID plan, but I haven't seen anything official.

 

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Here is my digging about "How to kickstart successful virtual world nowadays": https://forum.sine.space/threads/kick-starting-a-virtual-world-problem-analysis-ideas-suggestions-your-needs.17033 - somewhat close to Vivienne Schell and Wulfie Reanimator opinions: there is nothing to do to have fun in second wave of virtual worlds & and there is no wacuum now (like it was on start of SL back in 2003) - modern sandbox-themed games on powerful engines are main rivals for attention of gamers audience (and creative people also not available - they are busy making mods for games or making own "Unity" games as indie). So, Sansar will be pushed to small*?* niche of virtual museums/VR meetings or grow up on something more self-entertaining. My own attempt to put some of those sandbox ideas in Sansar (you can only move some stuff/lights by pushing it) available in "City Park" Experience: https://atlas.sansar.com/experiences/lex4art/city-park (it coud be even better with GI but ... too many artifacts).

Edited by Lex4art

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18 hours ago, Vivienne Schell said:

 

Right, It is NOT a world in the sense of Second Life. It is thought to be platform for 3D artists, some kind of interactive internet showcase for certain groups, or a simple and effective platform for all kinds of small or freelancing social game developers. But it is NOT world.

It´s not xbox. It is much more comparable to Unity, and my impression is that, despite some similarities to Blue Mars, Unity was what they had on their mind when they decided to start with something different from Second Life. Unity plus VR, plus UGC, plus provider service, simplified.

It totally will depend on what these creator/showcase/business groups they target will make out of it, within the simplified functionality framework. While Second Life, in first place, targets the "user", Sansar targets the "creators", or better "this is MY little space" people in VERY first place. And THESE people/groups will have to adress and attract the user, NOT Linden Lab. So no one should ever expect the SL like, advanced "shared world" character in regards to Sansar..

That is pretty much what the lab has been saying for awhile now -- maybe a year after the first announcement when the party line was quite a bit different. 

The problem is, most people had their own ideas of what Sansar "was" or "will be" and so not many were paying attention or listening :D.  

I think you put it very well :D. 

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Well we knew that it would be unconnected 'experiences', and I don't think that anyone still imagined an SL-like world. What we still don't know though - or at least I don't - is whether or not the 'experiences' will be reasonably usable by those who don't have VR headsets. That's why people have been saying that you can't sit. I don't think that we've been blind to what LL has been saying. It's just that LL hasn't been at all clear about Sansar, possibly because they haven't been all that clear themselves about how it will end up. They've certainly changed what they had in mind at the start of it, and they may have been changing it all the way through its development

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14 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

Well we knew that it would be unconnected 'experiences', and I don't think that anyone still imagined an SL-like world. What we still don't know though - or at least I don't - is whether or not the 'experiences' will be reasonably usable by those who don't have VR headsets. That's why people have been saying that you can't sit. I don't think that we've been blind to what LL has been saying. It's just that LL hasn't been at all clear about Sansar, possibly because they haven't been all that clear themselves about how it will end up. They've certainly changed what they had in mind at the start of it, and they may have been changing it all the way through its development

Yes. Eventually. But that will be up to the individual Experience creator's prerogative to make it so. Sansar team have stated that VR is priority as it makes it easier to then incorporate PC users functionality. But at some point PC users will be capable of interacting with scenes to much the same if not identically the same degree as VR users.

I really think that is 6 months or more down the road. As Qie pointed out there are whole swaths of API that is left undone. The simple ability to touch an object like a scripted door for example to a simple sit on a chair does not exist yet. There is no way to get that sit animation into Sansar yet. I have no idea what file format it would be. I know Medhue is going crazy waiting to get that capability.

For VR those kinds of abilities will come first and the HiFi post about VR harnesses to provide mocap is looking like the way that is going to be accomplished for them. I may be wrong on that though. Maybe that would an ultimate goal for them as it of course requires the VR people to invest in even  more hardware.

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9 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

The store is less than exciting with lots of public domain "paintings", some things which look like they were lifted from the web and many items that make Kitely Market look good. I am wondering where all the items from those top SL creators are. I didn't find a search area or even categories. Maybe they are coming. But after scrolling for a few minutes I was very bored. 

https://store.sansar.com/

 

After much scrolling and staring at the entire page, I finally figured out that there is a Search box at the top - click on the magnifying in the upper right.  However, I'm not sure which search tool they have based it on, as using the word 'NOT' does not eliminate items like in the MP.  I also tried the minus sign with a word and that didn't work either.

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44 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

After much scrolling and staring at the entire page, I finally figured out that there is a Search box at the top - click on the magnifying in the upper right.  However, I'm not sure which search tool they have based it on, as using the word 'NOT' does not eliminate items like in the MP.  I also tried the minus sign with a word and that didn't work either.

Well that is good to know, but kinda makes my point. If I type in "Blueberry", this is what I get.

blueberry.thumb.jpg.c3656fefaf2b5c09dad0cc661ef3ef60.jpg

Jeans got NOTHING and shirt got this:

 

shirt.thumb.PNG.f4521cd8a95b598477590c09c4c4001c.PNG

The hydrangeas look nice. 

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