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1 hour ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

- No sitting, running, jumping, or flying. (Only a pretty clunky teleport, obviously aimed at VR users.)
- No interaction with the world. (No "touch" equivalent from SL.)
- No settings. (Graphics nor controls.)
- No in-world inventory. (You don't "rez" things.)
- No partial outfits, only hairstyle, clothing, and accessories (read: jewelry).
- No scripted avatar attachments. (Yet?)

Are there even special avatar animations? Imagine how boring SL would be if we only had the default animations.

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8 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Are there even special avatar animations? Imagine how boring SL would be if we only had the default animations.

No. 

The only different animation you will see is people using VR, their arms are all wobbly.

Go to this page and watch Medhue's video to get a sense of what it is like. Think SL 2003-4.

 

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Just tried it! I don't have a pc VR because I don't like the Oc or Vive hardware. The sound is amazing. Everything feels polished but it is very different from SL. I don't know if it is by design or if it is just because Sansar is brand new and SL is very mature. They seem to cater to different markets. Ergo, SL has no competitor, why cannibalize itself? LL's competitors would have to do double the work to take on SL and Sansar.

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22 hours ago, Ima Rang said:

The point of it is to build experiences.  It is nothing like Second Life and was not intended to be.  We did not pay for Sansar to be developed.  

buy you can't 'build' in Sansar. You 'build' using tools outside Sansar. In SL you can build in there and see what you build as you go. Some of us can't see the point of using outside software to be built in world - negates the point of being in world.

And as a high tier payer we did contribute to Sansar or does SL not count towards LLs profits?

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22 hours ago, Klytyna said:

Did you forget all those  Island regions, filled with "non premium freeloaders" paying rent to private land rental companies, that is then used to pay tier at a rate that is generally higher then the rate you premiums pay on the Madlands continents.

Did you forget all those Island regions that outnumber the whole of the Madlands by more than 2 to 1?

Most MMO's eventually abandon the subscription only model in favour of the free-to-play-with-micro-transactions model because it makes them far more money in the long term.

One MMO in fact opened without a subscription model of any sort, it's financed entirely by selling optional (and nicer/sexier) costume options for peoples free-to-play characters.

In all these MMO's there remain however small groups of noisy entitled buffoons screaming that their small subscription fee vastly outweighs the massive amounts of money the company makes from the non subscribers.

 

Freeloaders do not contribute - there's a clue in the word. 'Free'. THey're not the ones who pay rent or buy from stores or marketplace. They're the ones who don't have a home and collect freebies wherever they can.And griefers most certainly don't pay towards SL. Rent payers weren't mentioned at all simply because they put money in 

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On 8/1/2017 at 3:12 AM, ChinRey said:

Exactly. That's essentially what Sansar is too, not a virtual world itself but a set of tools for you to build a virtual reality. What sets it a apart from Unity and Unreal is that it's online and comes packaged with a number of auxillary services like a hosting package, a ready made in-game money system, a shared user database and a navigable online catalog listing all available simulations.

The big question now is what will people use the sansar engine for? that remains to be seen.

This helps to explain things. I was shocked by Sansar's crudeness. The avatars suck. Movement is clumsy. The 'experiences' are boring. I realize it's beta, but I expected something at least as good as Blue Mars, which didn't survive very long. I can't see any future for Sansar.

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8 hours ago, Derek Torvalar said:

The only different animation you will see is people using VR, their arms are all wobbly.

To be fair I really wonder how LL is going to handle custom animations in combination with VR.

What's the point of a dance animation (or any custom animation) if you can't see your own avatar?

And how is movement handled in VR while you're playing an animation?
It's going to be Vomit Machine 3000 if animations dictate your head movement.
Or maybe (probably) the VR mode will disable all avatar animations on yourself, but that could easily ruin some functionality.

There's also concern for scripters not taking VR in mind when causing avatar movement, especially the ones who don't have a headset (like myself).
I can't make sure I won't ruin someone's VR experience just because I can only script for the desktop view.

Edited by Wulfie Reanimator
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I took a gander in the game, it's not ready for prime time, but it's beta and many things still need to be worked out. I don't see it as the SL replacement any time soon.

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2 hours ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

 I don't see it as the SL replacement any time soon.

I don't see it as an SL replacement ever. Chalk and cheese.

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1 hour ago, Callum Meriman said:

I don't see it as an SL replacement ever. Chalk and cheese.

It will get moldy and thrown away eventually. Bad investment.

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8 hours ago, Deltango Vale said:

 I was shocked by Sansar's crudeness. The avatars suck. Movement is clumsy. The 'experiences' are boring. I realize it's beta, but I expected something at least as good as Blue Mars, which didn't survive very long. I can't see any future for Sansar.

seeing how long creators and developers already have access to Sansar it's really disapointing what i've seen there till now.

Yes the building look good, but the lack of interaction will bore most people within a few days.

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I downloaded sansar, my computer was good enough after all. I installed it logged in and chose an experience. I waited 10 minutes but it never  did load. I closed the program and restarted it, i got a virus scan warning about the sansar program and my computer isolated it. I gave up and deleted it.

But seriously, I'm really gonna go to sansar just to look at other peoples pretty experiences?

And just wait till they charge money to enter the cool ones. 

Sansar will be user pay and pay and pay.

:)

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44 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I downloaded sansar, my computer was good enough after all. I installed it logged in and chose an experience. I waited 10 minutes but it never  did load. I closed the program and restarted it, i got a virus scan warning about the sansar program and my computer isolated it. I gave up and deleted it.

But seriously, I'm really gonna go to sansar just to look at other peoples pretty experiences?

And just wait till they charge money to enter the cool ones. 

Sansar will be user pay and pay and pay.

:)

Out of curiosity (and to anyone experiencing very long load times), what's your connection speed?

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31 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Out of curiosity (and to anyone experiencing very long load times), what's your connection speed?

6,9 Mbit/s, residing in Germany. With and without Google's public DNS.

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1 hour ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Out of curiosity (and to anyone experiencing very long load times), what's your connection speed?

The load time on initially getting into an experience for the first time are long. For me it was 5 minutes or maybe a little more. But after I have visited one and then go back it loads in less than a minute.

I have 150Mb/s d/l. 

But that is irrelevant. It is the speed at which the content is provided by their servers and the routing that is the issue. Nowhere have I ever experienced anything come into my computer near 150Mb/s. The analogy is like a water  pipe coming into your home. If it is a 12 inch pipe but the city only provides supply through a 2 inch pipe that is how fast you are gonna get your water. Actually a better one would be to use pressure, City provides the water at 10 psi though I can receive it at a higher rate I am still only going to get it at 10psi.

They recommend 10Mb/s and a minimum of 5Mb/s.

Edited by Derek Torvalar

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9 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

To be fair I really wonder how LL is going to handle custom animations in combination with VR.

What's the point of a dance animation (or any custom animation) if you can't see your own avatar?

And how is movement handled in VR while you're playing an animation?
It's going to be Vomit Machine 3000 if animations dictate your head movement.
Or maybe (probably) the VR mode will disable all avatar animations on yourself, but that could easily ruin some functionality.

There's also concern for scripters not taking VR in mind when causing avatar movement, especially the ones who don't have a headset (like myself).
I can't make sure I won't ruin someone's VR experience just because I can only script for the desktop view.

Yep I hear what your sayin.

I have no idea how they intend to accommodate for that.

Although I did hear someone on VR last night say that they were able to view themselves. The somehow just discovered it at the time and exclaimed in shocked laughter at how they looked. lol Don't know how they did it,

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1 hour ago, Derek Torvalar said:

The load time on initially getting into an experience for the first time are long. For me it was 5 minutes or maybe a little more. But after I have visited one and then go back it loads in less than a minute.

Less than a minute is actually not enough, normal transfer time between experiences will have to be brought down to ten seconds or less. I don't even know if that is possible but if it isn't, the idea of an Atlas with interconnected experiences is dead.

As for graphics, yes maybe it's better than Second Life in many ways but Ford doesn't promote a new model by saying it's faster than a Model T, do they? Right now it seems UE4 is the cutting edge of computer graphics but all the big names and new ambitious upstarts are leapfrogging each other all the time. They're moving fast and Sansar is far behind.

I don't think there's any point in repeating all the stuff about lack of interactivity and scripting and the shortage of content is something everybody ought to expect.

With the tempo Sansar development has had so far, we're talking at least three or four years of hard work. But time is running out fast. Now that everything is in the open for anybody to see, they only have a few months at most to get it fixed.

That's a tall order.

Edited by ChinRey
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30 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

Less than a minute is actually not enough, normal transfer time between experiences will have to be brought down to ten seconds or less. I don't even know if that is possible but if it isn't, the idea of an Atlas with interconnected experiences is dead.

As for graphics, yes maybe it's better than Second Life in many ways but Ford doesn't promote a new model by saying it's faster than a Model T, do they? Right now it seems UE4 is the cutting edge of computer graphics but all the big names and new ambitious upstarts are leapfrogging each other all the time. They're moving fast and Sansar is far behind.

I don't think there's any point in repeating all the stuff about lack of interactivity and scripting and the shortage of content is something everybody ought to expect.

With the tempo Sansar development has had so far, we're talking at least three or four years of hard work. But time is running out fast. Now that everything is in the open for anybody to see, they only have a few months at most to get it fixed.

That's a tall order.

They haven't since its inception really provided a valid concrete answer to the question, "Why do I want to be there?"

 

ETA And I agree with you about the time aspect. And the timing. I mean from the outset I have thought that Ebbe was a fool for even leaking it. And now they have released it in a, to my mind an Alpha state. Why? In the hopes that more people will be able to push development along at a faster pace? Do they expect people to actually pay 99.99/mo for the opportunity to create 20 Experiences with no possibility of making any money from them? Seems really bizarre to me.

Edited by Derek Torvalar
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2 hours ago, Derek Torvalar said:

The load time on initially getting into an experience for the first time are long. For me it was 5 minutes or maybe a little more. But after I have visited one and then go back it loads in less than a minute.

I have 150Mb/s d/l. 

But that is irrelevant. It is the speed at which the content is provided by their servers and the routing that is the issue. Nowhere have I ever experienced anything come into my computer near 150Mb/s. The analogy is like a water  pipe coming into your home. If it is a 12 inch pipe but the city only provides supply through a 2 inch pipe that is how fast you are gonna get your water. Actually a better one would be to use pressure, City provides the water at 10 psi though I can receive it at a higher rate I am still only going to get it at 10psi.

They recommend 10Mb/s and a minimum of 5Mb/s.

Oh I know, I'm just seeing a lot of reports of absurdly long load times and because some of those people have very slow (below minimum) connections, I've been wondering how common of a problem that is, rather than server-side. I get roughly 55-60Mb/s down on speedtest.net and very few places actually provide even that. (And yes, my initial load times are also pretty long.)

Edited by Wulfie Reanimator

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13 minutes ago, Derek Torvalar said:

They haven't since its inception really provided a valid concrete answer to the question, "Why do I want to be there?"

Because eventually everything will feel more real there.

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17 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Because eventually everything will feel more real there.

So you are saying that the sole reason for being in Sansar is because it will most closely approximate the experience of actually being beside  say the Eiffel Tower and taking a picture of it?

Is that it?

Yawwwwwwn.

 

ETA ya know, more and more I am beginning to see that VR is in actuality merely an imagination prosthesis. People have become so desensitized by the influx of digital info that their imaginations have become stunted. It is no wonder that empathic accuracy scores are so low. People have lost or are losing the ability to utilize their imaginations and therefore need the imagination amplifiers to help to try and comprehend or understand the simplest of things. I didn't say anything at the time Luna about that vid you posted about the guy talking about the internet and stuff but all the stuff he was talking about is not necessary for human understanding. 

Edited by Derek Torvalar
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7 minutes ago, Derek Torvalar said:

So you are saying that the sole reason for being in Sansar is because it will most closely approximate the experience of actually being beside  say the Eiffel Tower and taking a picture of it?

Is that it?

Yawwwwwwn.

No, I didn't say it would only look more real, I said it would FEEL more real. This would include all sorts of activity.
I think SL is limited in the ability to carry this forward, but I don't think it will die anytime soon however.

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2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

No, I didn't say it would only look more real, I said it would FEEL more real. This would include all sorts of activity.
I think SL is limited in the ability to carry this forward, but I don't think it will die anytime soon however.

See my ETA above.

I do not need VR to enhance my ability to 'feel'.

 

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8 minutes ago, Derek Torvalar said:

I do not need VR to enhance my ability to 'feel'

The Terence Mckenna video was part joke, part truth (for me)...but not sure I want to get into all that.

Virtual worlds are an art form, and humans have always utilized art to understand the world better. For example, it was only when I tried to construct a tree years ago that I realized I had not really been seeing trees. I thought I had, but was really only partially seeing them. Art causes you to focus on something so intently that new awarenesses develop.
Art is amazing...it takes us to places we didn't know existed.

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