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3 hours ago, ChinRey said:

With that little misunderstanding out of the way, the important point here is of course that Sansar to a very large degree targets the same market as the existing game engines as opposed to the traditional Second Life market.  Traditional computer games is very much something LL wants people to build with Sansar and architects, designers, museums and others are already using Unity and  Unreal Engine to create virtual showrooms - both free standing and online ones.

Unity has built-in VR support now. Im not sure if Unreal Engine has but they are quite agressively marketing it as a VR platform.

Unreal Engine does indeed have solid support for VR. You can even build with the editor itself in VR, if you're feeling masochistic enough. Although it's not predominant as LL is trying to make it. VR is just not taking off in terms of sales and adoption though.

To say it's a game engine is absolutely correct as it produces a light version of what a game engine is capable of producing.

LL currently says: " Sansar will democratize VR as a creative medium, making it easy for people to create, share, and  sell their own social VR experiences " Which basically means: VR game engine for dummies, "Social experiences" is nothing more than marketing speak, it doesn't mean anything to anyone outside of a marketing department.

Although I do get the other posters point that because it's "less" than a game engine, it's not a proper game engine. While it is less, it's a semantic argument.

On the other hand, you can build something like Sansar using a game engine because a game engine is "more". Case in point, Space (currently also beta by the creator of OpenSim) is very much like Sansar ... probably the closest competitor to date. And it's built using the Unity game engine. Personally I think Unreal Engine would be better suited to build a Sansar, but you get the point.

I think what some people will eventually find though, is that if you're going to go through all that trouble, you might as well do it in a game engine to begin with and control your own hosting and distribution..

The only reason not to would be that you think LL is going to deliver you traffic. As far as a market and virtual currency, why would you use Sansar over your own currency and share revenue with LL when you could bank 100% of your revenue? People will have that light bulb moment for themselves at some point.

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1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

ChinRey, I don't know whether you're being deliberately coy here.

The obvious connection to a fire sale in SL and the opening of Sansar is that if you thought Sansar was going to be wildly popular and you didn't think your SL goods would "port," you might firesale your SL stock because people are going to stampede to Sansar and leaving you without customers in SL.

Sansar does not support Linux, it does not support Mac, its hardware requirements is too high for some Windows computers used in SL, a lot of people in SL are so attached to their inventories and/or avatars they won't go unless they can take them along, a lot of people are so comfortable in their SL homes they wouldn't dream of moving to start over somewhere else, many people made up their minds they don't like Sansar long before they actually knew what it was about, most people in SL still doesn't know that Sansar is open (and they won't know for at least a few weeks), many haven't even heard about Sansar...

There isn't going to be a stampede from Second Life to Sansar any time soon.

 

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

The fact that the Sansar open beta was coming in July must have been SL's worst-kept secret if even I heard about it.

It wasn't a secret at all, Linden Lab had annouced that.

Just as it was no secret at all that it would open during the first half of 2017, in spring 2017, very early in 2017, before the end of 2016, early in 2016 .... .... and before the end of 2014.

It wasn't until we had an actual date we could be sure it was for real this time.

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4 hours ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

There's always the possibility that someone simply messed up the hardware data tables, missed or misspelled entries during coding, thus those checks toss an error...

 

Most expensive urban legend I've encountered so far, according to my transaction history. There was one letdown, though: no "simply buy the whole store content in one box" offer. ;)
Here's one of the original announcements, by the way.

Ahh. So it was already OVER and prices back to original when I went. Didn't understand the "past tense" in the original post on this. Thanks. Odd that I didn't hear about it but I am not much of a shopper anyway. Will be interesting to see if the store stays or disappears as time goes by.    

Thanks for the info. 

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You can't bring .dae mesh into Sansar but must convert it into .fbx.
Here's how:
  https://help.sansar.com/hc/en-us/articles/115002888226-3D-model-export-and-setup-tips-using-popular-3D-tools-#blender%fbx%export

Had a couple people ask how to do that...so thought I would post it here.

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Been there with a non VR desktop. no problems. no crashes and fast rezzing experiences.
I am very curious how Sansar will develope. For now I found it disappointing but that can change.

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36 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

Ahh. So it was already OVER and prices back to original when I went. Didn't understand the "past tense" in the original post on this. Thanks. Odd that I didn't hear about it but I am not much of a shopper anyway. Will be interesting to see if the store stays or disappears as time goes by.    

Thanks for the info. 

I doubt they'll ever switch to Sansar and drop SL, unless SL is about to go under. They make home&garden products, which are only useful to experience creator/owners in Sansar. Their SL market would be always be bigger than their Sansar market.

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I was just in there and will confirm for me that reloading a previously visited experience does not take as long as visiting it for the first time. about 30sec-1 minute.

Was looking at my Temps for my chip and graphics card and it really works them. CPU temps were as high  as 55C and graphics card as well in the mid 50's. And both are water cooled. Never had temps this high on anything except extreme benches. 

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Maybe I'm totally at miss, because I literally just jumped in and hardly read anything before:
What is the justification for those horrid loading / download times, after the already annoyingly long client and update downloads? There is barely any "life" in those scenes. It feels as if you were loading 4k HDR 2D images on a 56.6 modem connection, except that the scenes are neither 4k nor HDR. 
I do consider myself a fan of beautiful, appealing scenery, someone who can drool for hours over tiny details of a pretty arrangement. They may exist somewhere, perhaps, maybe... but I have serious doubts that they'll be worth the wait.
Why did nobody get the pretty obvious idea to include any kind of display to show the remaining or estimated download time? 

Clientwise...
Why are there no "game" settings at all at this beta stage? Sound options, no fullscreen, not the most basic hint of any graphic controls ... ?

Who picked those incredibly non-telling, cryptic terms for that extremely limited and faulty (e.g. upper lip slider has more effect on the lower lip than the actual component) character customization? And why does something like Sims 2, an over a decade old game, seem to have much better options than a plattform in 2017? 
Animations seem outdated and pretty blunt (just looking at that leg bending back- and outwards made me cringe), mesh quality pretty meh, lightning rather unnatural, overly saturated and too dark.

I can easily imagine that reviews of an early access game on Steam would probably be immensely in the reds, if it was offered in such a state. To me, it rather seems like a horribly unoptimized tech demo than anything else ... whatever it is trying to be, actually.
Perhaps it'll fill a niche on the VR market, I have no clue about that. 
But on a regular desktop machine ... what's the point of it? Much smaller Indie studios have come up with simply higher quality products in standalones, catering to a "visit an immersive world of its own" theme, thinking of an "ABZU" for example with hauntingly stunning scenes. Or "Dear Esther". Or various venues in "Second Life", which at first, second and third glance seems superior in presentation, though it suffers from severe technical flaws and almost ancient tech underneath...

I really wouldn't have thought that my first impression would undercut that of "Blue Mars" back in the day. But I'm massively underwhelmed at this stage.

In short, the only positive thing I can say is: it's free.

Edited by Lillith Hapmouche
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This is what I saw when I created  the Rooftop skybox from what is supplied. I have a neighbour. lol

Can't tp over there though to say hi.

 

My roof.jpg

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5 hours ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

Maybe I'm totally at miss, because I literally just jumped in and hardly read anything before:

I posted my view on all your questions early in this thread (or possibly in another thread, I can't remember) but I think the answer is that LL got the timing wrong right from the start.

From a developer's perspective, Sansar shouldn't have been released for another year at least. But the LL marketers kept coming up with an endless stream of completely unrealistic time frames and they had to come up with something before everybody got too tired of waiting. It must have been very difficult to find a compromice and I do not envy the people who eventually had to make the decision, but I do suspect this was their last chance if they wanted anybody to pay any attention at all.

Edit; Just in case somebody from LL actually reads this thread. No matter what people might think about Sansar as a product, the whole process so far as been a marketing disaster. All those fictional release dates are just one of a string of textbook examples from "How Not To Market Your Brand New Product 101". I really hope Linden Lab will evaluate that part of the process throughly and learn from the experience.

Edited by ChinRey
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3 minutes ago, Derek Torvalar said:

I have a neighbour

I think those are your building supplies, at least that's how it worked for one of the pre-made scenes I uploaded. Finally I figured out how to reach over there and drag it to my building platform.

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Oh I never tried to grab onto any of that stuff.

I just walked to the edge of my Rooftop and then tried the tp function to try and get over there.

Will give it a go next time on there though.

But I thought all my building stuff was only in the inventory?

I didn't see anything like that when I did the Highlands. But there is stuff in the distance of that one too that you can't get to so maybe I can grab those things there as well.

 

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10 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

@Chic Aeon, no it's no urban legend at all. Apple Fall had a sale for like 4 days last week, indeed with those low prices, you simply missed it. Ask him. He announced it in groups and words spread -- I announced it in my groups. It was so mobbed he added a cam sim. It was everything in the store. Now it's over, sorry. He says sales have not been harmed by this fire sale and that his Sansar store isn't open yet but he plans one.

Thanks. I don't need anything and I am not really a shopper. So no big loss for me.  I was having SO MANY group interruptions that I turned off chat in most all of them. Can't get much done with that pinging going on :D. 

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5 minutes ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

And why does something like Sims 2, an over a decade old game, seem to have much better options than a plattform in 2017

Sims 2 had some pretty decent options for making characters. The hideous mutant's reputation came from the really bad 'template dna' used for random generated townies.

More importantly, Sims 2 was built in the expectation that there would be a strong modding community, who would extend the games capabilities at little or no expense to the developers, hence why they included Bodyshop with the game, and offered a Homecrafter app, for making building textures, and shared so much data about game file formats and scripting code with the modding community, leading to apps like SimPE.

When they released Sims 3, they tried to be hella kewl and updated everything using a live subd process, lower rez models, subdivided live, the result was what Sims 2 users called 'puddings'. Sims 4, they essentially tried to eliminate custom modded content all together.

That's why Sims 2 retained its popularity, and it's modding community long after the games 'official death', and why there was a significant amount of backporting of cool items from Sims 3 into Sims 2

You had professional 3d content makers making content for Sims 2, Enalya making improved skins by the dozen, for example, and people like Warlokk and his custom body shapes project, to rid your Sims of that 34b chest 34 hip conformity, Numenors CEP project, and ModtheSims 'Dream Team' with their themed projects designed to do all the things with Sims 2 that EA/Maxis hadn't bothered with.

Now, imagine how crap SL avatars would look if nobody had ever made any 'custom content' for them and LL had never released new starter avis, hell you don't have to imagine, theres still plenty of them walking the grid.

Avatars in Project Stupid will suffer from the same problem for quite some time to come.



 

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5 hours ago, ChinRey said:

But I don't really believe there is a connection at all. the dates aren't actually that close and July is a very obvious month to hold fire sales anyway. Besides, what could such a connection actually be?

While I had a pretty good sales month in July -- mostly because of one venue where I did very well -- plenty of other H and G (that's Home and Garden folks) guys are reporting dire bottom lines. This is not unusual. It happens every summer. The more tier or rent you have to pay (and other operating costs if you have them) the harder it is "in summer".  So it is perfectly reasonable to have a big sale to try and keep your bottom line in the shiny black. 

I know nothing about Apple Fall's bottom line. We do not chat. I am just saying that many (MANY) H and G guys (and likely clothes and hair etc too) are feeling "summer" this summer.  Happily I switched mental gears and have low overhead so that's all kinda washing past me.

I am sure my machine is hefty enough for Sansar. I am not interested in VR for a lot of reasons -- mostly all mentioned here. I will likely go over when the doors actually open AFTER REREADING THE TOS again.  Hopefully anyone planning on creating there will do that. I did months ago (it was a Terms of Use then not a TOS) and backed out lickity split. When the "everybody come on in TOS" arrives  we can wish it will be more reasonable.  

 

Or not.  Most of the folks that I know that have been there didn't even read before entering ^^. 

 

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As the title implies don't visit Sansar yet, they have a lot of bugs to fix.

I watched some of the videos yesterday, and I avoided it. I knew everyone was going to be rushing to get in. I heard from some friends that they waited over an hour for each experience. I logged in and made my avatar around 11pm est last night, and it wasn't bad then. Most experiences only took about 10 minutes to get into, and everyone was super nice. I learned a bit from other people, and had fun exploring with f4. I made a new friend and we explored a few places and had good conversation to.

Unfortunately there is a lot missing, especially for non vr users. You can't click or touch anything, and you can't open doors. This is going to be a big problem, as I am sure most of the people with their average computers, can't handle the demands that vr brings. My computer can handle it thankfully, but vr headsets make me feel dizzy and sick. This morning I logged in and wanted to meet up with some friends, but that was not happening for any of us. It took us each an hour to get in one experience. People were very rude, and we continually crashed. One person in my group had his computer overheat, and couldn't return.

Something that really bothered me and a friend of mine is the lack of other types of avatars. If LL is going to make this experience, they must give people a better demographic of different avatars to chose from. I know that LL discriminates and does not care for non human avatars, but they should. Second Life is made up of mostly non human avatars. As a furry myself I felt kind of upset that I was forced to be a human in Sansar. I really hope that later on down the road people will make better and more diverse avatars for us to purchase. But for now LL won't get any of my money.

They really need to add more interface to allow people to change network and graphic settings. As time goes on I am sure people will make more user friendly viewers, and the experiences will become less time consuming to get into. They also need to give people who don't use vr the ability to touch, move, and enjoy the experience as others can. My main issue though is that you cannot report, or even whisper people unless they are right there with you. Luckily my friends have Skype so we could talk and communicate that way.

Luckily we figured out that you can report people through our external browsers, and we each reported about 10 people this morning. With a good thorough explanation I am sure each one of those people will be spending some good quality time away from Sansar.

Overall it is an ok experience, that I think will get better as time goes on.

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1 hour ago, LostLacey said:

As the title implies don't visit Sansar yet, they have a lot of bugs to fix.

I watched some of the videos yesterday, and I avoided it. I knew everyone was going to be rushing to get in. I heard from some friends that they waited over an hour for each experience. I logged in and made my avatar around 11pm est last night, and it wasn't bad then. Most experiences only took about 10 minutes to get into, and everyone was super nice. I learned a bit from other people, and had fun exploring with f4. I made a new friend and we explored a few places and had good conversation to.

Unfortunately there is a lot missing, especially for non vr users. You can't click or touch anything, and you can't open doors. This is going to be a big problem, as I am sure most of the people with their average computers, can't handle the demands that vr brings. My computer can handle it thankfully, but vr headsets make me feel dizzy and sick. This morning I logged in and wanted to meet up with some friends, but that was not happening for any of us. It took us each an hour to get in one experience. People were very rude, and we continually crashed. One person in my group had his computer overheat, and couldn't return.

Something that really bothered me and a friend of mine is the lack of other types of avatars. If LL is going to make this experience, they must give people a better demographic of different avatars to chose from. I know that LL discriminates and does not care for non human avatars, but they should. Second Life is made up of mostly non human avatars. As a furry myself I felt kind of upset that I was forced to be a human in Sansar. I really hope that later on down the road people will make better and more diverse avatars for us to purchase. But for now LL won't get any of my money.

They really need to add more interface to allow people to change network and graphic settings. As time goes on I am sure people will make more user friendly viewers, and the experiences will become less time consuming to get into. They also need to give people who don't use vr the ability to touch, move, and enjoy the experience as others can. My main issue though is that you cannot report, or even whisper people unless they are right there with you. Luckily my friends have Skype so we could talk and communicate that way.

Luckily we figured out that you can report people through our external browsers, and we each reported about 10 people this morning. With a good thorough explanation I am sure each one of those people will be spending some good quality time away from Sansar.

Overall it is an ok experience, that I think will get better as time goes on.

aren't the other Sansar posts good enough to proceed discussion about this subject?... gets a mess when all gets posted allover the SECONDLIFE forums

 

[edit: post merged with other Sansar posts... remark is irrelevant now]

Edited by Alwin Alcott
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They decided to release this "beta" in its current state, so they obviously want said current state to be reviewed. Just like any other ordinary beta, alpha, early access or whatever out there...

28 minutes ago, LostLacey said:

This is going to be a big problem, as I am sure most of the people with their average computers...

The average computer setup which I come across among quite a large percentage of SL users is actually low end or below. 

And why for Heaven's sake is this in the general Land Forum? O.o

 

EDIT: Could it be possible that someone just messed up merging two threads? Though the outcome is pretty ironic.

Edited by Lillith Hapmouche

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Just an update on my brothel.

Sansar is non Adult. Absolutely no Adult content or references allowed. Though I did see someone with an Experience called Sexy Time but not sure if that will stay.

It is open to pre 13 year olds with parental consent.

So an Adult Sansar Experience is still a long way off.

Will keep those interested updated though. lmao

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50 minutes ago, Derek Torvalar said:

Geez reported 10 people each, already? lmao

What were they doing?

Well, not really... there was a new thread, the post by LostLacey, originally in the Land Forum > General Chat, named "Don't visit sansar(yet)". 
The forum choice puzzled me, hence why I replied. When my reply was posted and the page had reloaded, it was suddenly merged with this thread and the original thread title got replaced by the merged thread.

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1 minute ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

Well, not really... there was a new thread, the post by LostLacey, originally in the Land Forum > General Chat, named "Don't visit sansar(yet)". 
The forum choice puzzled me, hence why I replied. When my reply was posted and the page had reloaded, it was suddenly merged with this thread and the original thread title got replaced by the merged thread.

No, I was asking Lacey why her and her friends had found reason to report 10 people each while in Sansar. It must have been a gang of malcontent creators griefing or something.

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I been there for about a month and even though I think it has potential it really isn't like SL and wasn't meant to be. It's currently geared more towards VR headsets and the chat interface is very basic but so was SL when it started and then it evolved over time. Sansar will also, LL understands the importance of avatar creation and the social experience as well. I say check it out, create and see what it's about. 

pics here --> https://photos.app.goo.gl/gle91ze9grao99Z23

 

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