Life Forward Anchor 1

[Madelaine McMasters]

58 minutes ago, Nalytha said:

Why not use actual definitions instead of convenient ones?

Atheist: a person who does not believe in the existence of a god or any gods. 

Theist: a person who believes in the existence of god or gods.

Agnostic: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (such as God) is unknown and probably unknowable. 

FWIW, I used the squatting on the fence analogy with my husband. It turns out I sounded just as sneering and derisive as you claim they sound sitting there. Some Atheists think Agnostics are smug about not knowing... some Agnostics think Atheists are smug about knowing something they can't know. 

As with gender, I'm not sure those three classifications are sufficient. I see them as arbitrary lines of demarcation on what may be a multi-dimensional space. I (probably incorrectly) recall Richard Dawkins being asked to rank himself on a scale of 0 to 10 where zero was zero belief in god and 10 was absolute. Although he proclaims to be an athiest, he couldn't set himself at zero because he's a scientist and absolute certainty is only available to him in narrowly defined scopes. I can't put myself at zero either, for the very same reason. We both may be making a mistake by thinking of the zero point on the scale  as "belief there is no god", but I think that's how we both see it. And, even if I consider zero to be zero belief in god, I don't know that I'd put myself at zero, again allowing for my own ignorance. In either case, I'm close to zero. It's also possible that I have subconscious processes at work that, under duress, might change my mind. "Deathbed conversion" didn't get its own Wikipedia entry because it never happens.

I also think that our ultimate reality is unknown and may be unknowable. That doesn't lead me to believe in god.

I hope I don't appear smug about not knowing things, it's an unavoidable reality. And I think I avoid being smug about knowing something I can't know because I'm uncertain about most things I think about deeply.

And finally, I have no problem with people who sit on the fence, so long as they get off and help round up the cows when they escape into the soybeans.

[JoeDex]

@AmandaKeen Only 4 more days and it will all be over. Hang in there.

[Nalytha]

I don't actually believe those are satisfactory classifications. I merely counter that those definitions are a bit more tempered than some of the other ones seen in this thread. 

[Love Zhaoying]

On 7/24/2017 at 5:00 PM, Phil Deakins said:

On 7/24/2017 at 3:32 PM, Love Zhaoying said:

Have you hugged a depressed person today?

Nope. Are you depressed?

No, thank God! But if I was, a hug would help! And the few hugs I get always brighten my day.

[JoeDex]

What is a life forward?

Life Forward is the living the rules that make the world a better place. You can have a better life; a more fulfilling life by keeping to certain rules. In Life Forward they are called Anchors. Why anchors? Because these are the elements that give a steadying influence in life. They root you to the bedrock of existence.  More to come in the near future. 

Anchor Number 1
You are a child of God. You have worth and purpose. Always know that you matter. 

I want to emphasize that you are free to choose whether to accept or reject what I write. If you don't believe in a God then nothing I can say or do will change your mind. You would chose to reject the concept. Your freedom allows this decision. It is like hot oil reacting with cold water, a violent explosion results normally in vitriol from the non- believer. Once again, they choose to reject.

Why is this an Anchor? Because in order for you to add value to the world you have to know that you have value. Your being alive is valuable and your purpose is to add to the value of others. This can be accomplished in as many ways as you can imagine. Likewise, there are those that try and take value from others. 

You have value and you matter.

Anchor Number 2 
There is a God. He is everywhere and he loves you.

Anchor 2 follows directly from Anchor 1

Something, however you define it, created matter. I call the something God. You may call it something different. I do not profess to know all the names for the creator so I will use what is familiar to me: God. Because you were created and because you have value, you are precious in the eyes of God. God is everywhere. even avowed deniers cannot explain what preceded the big bang. So, something created matter as we know it both light and dark matter. That creator had to have power. Much more power that I could possibly ascertain. 

The concept of God being everywhere takes on more importance in Anchor 6, but for now, know that you are loved by a great power.

Anchor Number 3
Always tell the truth. It is easier on you and fair to everyone you deal with.

This one is hard because everyone lies. If someone tells you they do not lie; they are lying. Some lies are big; others are small. Sometimes we lie to save someone's feelings. In fact, that is probably the type of lie most people tell. 

Telling the truth is powerful. Yes, you can hurt people’s feelings but in the long run people will come to know that you always tell the truth as you know it. Adopting this Anchor is freeing. There is no longer any doubt that you will be found out. You are straight forward with your dealings with people and with that comes respect and mutual understanding.

Anchor Number 4
You will fail.

We all fail at times. We try and we fail. Sometimes we fail in small ways; sometimes we fail spectacularly.  Know that at times you will fail. Know that is okay to fail. The only ones that do not fail are those that do not try.

The best part of this Anchor is that even though you will fail at times; at times you will succeed.

Anchor Number 5
Life is short so truly celebrate when you can.

This is a natural flow of other Anchors but you have a precious gift: life. Sometimes we get into a routine and see life as a series of speed bumps; get over one and there is another. Take time to celebrate when you create a difficult problem, or achieve a valuable goal. You are allowed, encouraged, to be happy. So, take time to stop, acknowledge your achievement, and celebrate the moment before going on.  
 

Edited July 27, 2017 by JoeDex

[Zsigmond Alcott]

4 minutes ago, JoeDex said:

What is a life forward?

Life Forward is the living the rules that make the world a better place. You can have a better life; a more fulfilling life by keeping to certain rules. In Life Forward they are called Anchors. Why anchors? Because these are the elements that give a steadying influence in life. They root you to the bedrock of existence.  More to come in the near future. 

Anchor Number 1
You are a child of God. You have worth and purpose. Always know that you matter. 

I want to emphasize that you are free to choose whether to accept or reject what I write. If you don't believe in a God then nothing I can say or do will change your mind. You would chose to reject the concept. Your freedom allows this decision. It is like hot oil reacting with cold water, a violent explosion results normally in vitriol from the non- believer. Once again, they choose to reject.

Why is this an Anchor? Because in order for you to add value to the world you have to know that you have value. Your being alive is valuable and your purpose is to add to the value of others. This can be accomplished in as many ways as you can imagine. Likewise, there are those that try and take value from others. 

You have value and you matter.

Anchor Number 2 
There is a God. He is everywhere and he loves you.

Anchor 2 follows directly from Anchor 1

Something, however you define it, created matter. I call the something God. You may call it something different. I do not profess to know all the names for the creator so I will use what is familiar to me: God. Because you were created and because you have value, you are precious in the eyes of God. God is everywhere. even avowed deniers cannot explain what preceded the big bang. So, something created matter as we know it both light and dark matter. That creator had to have power. Much more power that I could possibly ascertain. 

The concept of God being everywhere takes on more importance in Anchor 6, but for now, know that you are loved by a great power.

Anchor Number 3
Always tell the truth. It is easier on you and fair to everyone you deal with.

This one is hard because everyone lies. If someone tells you they do not lie; they are lying. Some lies are big; others are small. Sometimes we lie to save someone's feelings. In fact, that is probably the type of lie most people tell. 

Telling the truth is powerful. Yes, you can hurt people’s feelings but in the long run people will come to know that you always tell the truth as you know it. Adopting this Anchor is freeing. There is no longer any doubt that you will be found out. You are straight forward with your dealings with people and with that comes respect and mutual understanding.

Anchor Number 4
You will fail.

We all fail at times. We try and we fail. Sometimes we fail in small ways; sometimes we fail spectacularly.  Know that at times you will fail. Know that is okay to fail. The only ones that do not fail are those that do not try.

The best part of this Anchor is that even though you will fail at times; at times you will succeed.

Anchor Number 5
Life is short so truly celebrate when you can.

This is a natural flow of other Anchors but you have a precious gift: life. Sometimes we get into a routine and see life as a series of speed bumps; get over one and there is another. Take time to celebrate when you create a difficult problem, or achieve a valuable goal. You are allowed, encouraged, to be happy. So, take time to stop, acknowledge your achievement, and celebrate the moment before going on.  
 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tari Landar]

How can you have an anchor in your life's path that is completely unattainable? 

(yes, that's a serious question)

[clivesteel]

I am an atheist and proud of the fact...

However, Joe has kept his cool and behaved admirably against the phalange of shameful troll specimens who've attacked him on this thread - and for that, he has my respect. 

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 minute ago, clivesteel said:

I am an atheist and proud of the fact...

However, Joe has kept his cool and behaved admirably against the phalange of shameful troll specimens who've attacked him on this thread - and for that, he has my respect. 

That's because Joe, himself, is a troll, only posting this stuff here in order to get the rest of us going.  His few replies have shown that he isn't really interested in an actual discussion of any of this stuff.

[Deltango Vale]

Oh dear, a religious nut. My favorite is a Chinese female-Jesus cult that beat a woman to death in MacDonald's for not joining. Mind you, it's hard to compete with Jim Jones or the Moonies. I suppose in this media age, one needs more than charisma to start a religion; one needs sensationalism. To be honest, I prefer L Ron Hubbard, a science fiction writer who deliberately set out to construct a religion. It worked a charm and he died rich.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Deltango Vale

[JoeDex]

@Tari Landar Teri, I do not understand your question. Anchors are not part of the path. Anchors are what you use to steady yourself on the path. Please, if you could elaborate on on your question so I can frame a better answer. I am asking this out of genuine desire to fully answer you. This is not meant to be a snarky comment.  If I come across that way in this response and request for clarity, it is not intended. It is difficult to properly phrase a response when the reader cannot see your intent in your body and facial expressions.

[Tari Landar]

37 minutes ago, JoeDex said:

@Tari Landar Teri, I do not understand your question. Anchors are not part of the path. Anchors are what you use to steady yourself on the path. Please, if you could elaborate on on your question so I can frame a better answer. I am asking this out of genuine desire to fully answer you. This is not meant to be a snarky comment.  If I come across that way in this response and request for clarity, it is not intended. It is difficult to properly phrase a response when the reader cannot see your intent in your body and facial expressions.

Well first, in order for an anchor to steady one, it would have to be *part of one's path..but that's neither here nor there, I guess, lol. 

 That said, my question was directly related to Anchor 3, however. You've said that it is to always tell the truth, which is unobtainable if all humans lie, one cannot always tell the truth, and sometimes lie, they negate one another. We all know that all humans lie, to some degree, so therefore always telling the truth is an impossibility.

Though I do get the point of *trying to always tell truth....the wording of the anchor makes it impossible, therefore rather useless as a means to steady one's self. 

Semantics, I suppose, but interesting ones nonetheless, even if only to me.  

[JoeDex]

@Tari Landar you make an excellent point, and one that I did not fully comprehend. Yes one should always tell the truth and when you do so you have that support. Practically, it is very hard to do. So it is an Anchor if you practice it consistently. Anchor 4 can come into play then. Know you will fail, then overcome that failure. If you practice ( that may not be the most appropriate word) it becomes a second nature to draw on the Anchors as you live and grow. It is akin to learning to drive a manual transmission automobile. In the beginning it is very difficult to steer the car, move the clutch, change the gears and apply the right amount of gas. When you start it is overwhelming and you stall (fail). With practice it become easy and you can do all the necessary steps without thinking about it.

[Madelaine McMasters]

There's an organization called "Everyone Matters". That's an idea brought up by the OP. And here's a video that shaped the creation of that organization.

JoeDex, as an atheist, it certainly won't surprise you that while I find the goals of your self-help proposition to be fairly anodyne, the supernatural motivation you use to justify it is simply unnecessary. I can get by with a little help from my friends...

 

[Dillon Levenque]

Well, shoot. I biffed a copy/paste and lost the entirety of a note I'd been writing as I read through this whole thread, start to finish.

Oh, well. I guess I'll do a Cliff Notes version.

Jerilynn Lemon got in way ahead of me, as I hoped to be the first to mention girl names from Beatles songs. I believe she was banking on "Michelle"; so was I. And later we found we are at least half right because someone else copped to that.

Callum Meriman, thank you for invoking the great Douglas Adams.

Of course it would be Maddy who gets to the use of the phrase "I don't know". I work in a technical field, have done throughout my career. I have frequently irritated salespeople by answering technical questions from would-be customers with "I don't know", when in fact that was the case. Not liking that answer is an attitude I shall never understand. Nor tolerate.

Pamela Galli reminds us we missed a Beatles song with a girl's name. I bet she's killer-diller when she's dressed to the 'ilt.

Oh, look out!

And then Maddy reprises the 'I don't know' discussion by quoting a writer, a thinker, who was my idol long before I ever met Maddy, but as it turns out is someone she much admires as well. We have discussed him many times. The greatest American production of the 19th Century, Mark Twain. "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."

Edited July 28, 2017 by Dillon Levenque

[Madelaine McMasters]

5 hours ago, JoeDex said:

@Tari Landar you make an excellent point, and one that I did not fully comprehend. Yes one should always tell the truth and when you do so you have that support. Practically, it is very hard to do.

Joe, your approach to telling the truth is both terribly naive and potentially dangerous. If I knock on your door wielding a bloody knife and ask if your children are home, will you tell me the truth, that they're playing in the back yard? At a lesser level, may I presume that you do not approve of telling children about Santa Claus?

If you mean that we should strive to tell the truth when it's the ethical thing to do (implying there are times when lying is the ethical thing to do, as I just demonstrated), why not just cut to the chase and say we should strive to be ethical?

Here's more about the value of lying...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie-to-children

Edited July 28, 2017 by Madelaine McMasters

[Tari Landar]

1 hour ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Joe, your approach to telling the truth is both terribly naive and potentially dangerous. If I knock on your door wielding a bloody knife and ask if your children are home, will you tell me the truth, that they're playing in the back yard? At a lesser level, may I presume that you do not approve of telling children about Santa Claus?

If you mean that we should strive to tell the truth when it's the ethical thing to do (implying there are times when lying is the ethical thing to do, as I just demonstrated), why not just cut to the chase and say we should strive to be ethical?

Here's more about the value of lying...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie-to-children

I didn't want to give examples of when lying is more appropriate, or even efficient, if not entirely entertaining (to me), for fear I'd be told I was going off topic again, lol. But..yes.. ^ ditto all of that

It is an impossibility for nearly all humans to never lie, imo, so relying on it as an anchor, or even crutch, with which to steady one's life would also be an impossibility. While I am not one to back down from a difficult task, I do know when something is impossible and my energy would be better spent on other tasks. I might still try, but I certainly wouldn't use it as a means for keeping myself on the life path I wish to follow. 

I suppose I'm just not keen on folks giving impossible life advice to others, especially in a "helping" manner, mostly because it creates the desire for impossible outcomes, and by trickle down, needless letdowns(and life has enough of those on its own). I'd have a better chance of winning the lottery(which I have never played) than I would at never lying, or even nearly never lying. I can teach my children that lying isn't always appropriate and we should strive not to do so whenever we can, but I'd never tell them they *can't, or should never lie. I guess I'm an odd duck, and most parents would probably offer up the "never lie" approach..but I wouldn't, and don't. There are times when I find it may be necessary..and that's not a bad life lesson to teach my kids, again imo. But telling them they can't ever lie, or should never lie, is in itself a lie, and therefore a bad life lesson, to me. 

Probably still semantics....and about as clear as mud, my thoughts tend to jumble mid-migraine, I doubt they make much sense anywhere other than my head lol. 

[Bitsy Buccaneer]

Tari, what about this sort of thing (anchor in OP's terminology) as an ideal to keep aiming for, even though it will be missed? Then it can be used to help learn from mistakes made and as encouragement to keep trying.

Would that sit better with you?

[JoeDex]

What is a life forward?
Life Forward is the living the rules that make the world a better place. You can have a better life; a more fulfilling life by keeping to certain rules. In Life Forward they are called Anchors. Why anchors? Because these are the elements that give a steadying influence in life. They root you to the bedrock of existence.  More to come in the near future. 

Anchor Number 1
You are a child of God. You have worth and purpose. Always know that you matter. 

I want to emphasize that you are free to choose whether to accept or reject what I write. If you don't believe in a God then nothing I can say or do will change your mind. You would chose to reject the concept. Your freedom allows this decision. It is like hot oil reacting with cold water, a violent explosion results normally in vitriol from the non- believer. Once again, they choose to reject.

Why is this an Anchor? Because in order for you to add value to the world you have to know that you have value. Your being alive is valuable and your purpose is to add to the value of others. This can be accomplished in as many ways as you can imagine. Likewise, there are those that try and take value from others. 

You have value and you matter.

Anchor Number 2 
There is a God. He is everywhere and he loves you.

Anchor 2 follows directly from Anchor 1

Something, however you define it, created matter. I call the something God. You may call it something different. I do not profess to know all the names for the creator so I will use what is familiar to me: God. Because you were created and because you have value, you are precious in the eyes of God. God is everywhere. even avowed deniers cannot explain what preceded the big bang. So, something created matter as we know it both light and dark matter. That creator had to have power. Much more power that I could possibly ascertain. 

The concept of God being everywhere takes on more importance in Anchor 6, but for now, know that you are loved by a great power.

Anchor Number 3
Always tell the truth. It is easier on you and fair to everyone you deal with.

This one is hard because everyone lies. If someone tells you they do not lie; they are lying. Some lies are big; others are small. Sometimes we lie to save someone's feelings. In fact, that is probably the type of lie most people tell. 

Telling the truth is powerful. Yes, you can hurt people’s feelings but in the long run people will come to know that you always tell the truth as you know it. Adopting this Anchor is freeing. There is no longer any doubt that you will be found out. You are straight forward with your dealings with people and with that comes respect and mutual understanding.



Anchor Number 4
You will fail.

We all fail at times. We try and we fail. Sometimes we fail in small ways; sometimes we fail spectacularly.  Know that at times you will fail. Know that is okay to fail. The only ones that do not fail are those that do not try.

The best part of this Anchor is that even though you will fail at times; at times you will succeed.

Anchor Number 5
Life is short so truly celebrate when you can.

This is a natural flow of other Anchors but you have a precious gift: life. Sometimes we get into a routine and see life as a series of speed bumps; get over one and there is another. Take time to celebrate when you create a difficult problem, or achieve a valuable goal. You are allowed, encouraged, to be happy. So, take time to stop, acknowledge your achievement, and celebrate the moment before going on.  

Anchor Number 6
Thoughts have mass and spin.

 

This means that thoughts, and prayers, can affect outcomes in the real world.

On the surface, this may seem absurd but we only observe 3 dimensions with our senses. Dimensions are simply the different facets of what we perceive to be reality. Quantum physics has calculated 10 dimensions; M theory tacks on an 11th. At the root of this is a sub atomic particle, or hadron, that is made up of strings. I can feel the eye rolls now but stay with me. The strings vibrate at the speed of light and the frequency of vibration corresponds to the mass of the particle. 

A thought has mass. Very small mass but because it has mass if can affect other particles. So concentrated thoughts, like those generated by meditation are focused and can affect outcomes. The process is called coherence. Like photons can be focused in to a laser beam, thoughts can be focused and target and outcome. Prayers are a form of focused thought. 

Know that your thoughts and prayers can affect an outcome. I emphasize the word “can”. It is not guaranteed but it may help you reach a goal or outcome you desire.

End
To the relief of many of you, this ends the discussion on my part. I thank you for your indulgence in this topic and I hope that you might see validity in the Anchors. 

[Madelaine McMasters]

5 hours ago, Tari Landar said:

Probably still semantics....and about as clear as mud, my thoughts tend to jumble mid-migraine, I doubt they make much sense anywhere other than my head lol. 

Your thoughts generally make quite good sense in my head, Tari.

It's simply dangerous to always tell the truth. Deception is a necessary survival skill in virtually all animals. I understand Joe's intent, but his prescription isn't even sufficient to teach the youngest of children. I was taught to tell the truth when it was the right thing to do, and to lie when it's the right thing to do. It sounds like you're taking a similar approach with your children. Life is complex. Any guidebook for it will be equally so. Just take an ethics course, or raise a child, you'll see. My biggest issue with Joe's treatise may be that it's less than skin deep.

"Anchor" is a broken metaphor for where Joe's trying to go, as well. You replaced it with a crutch and still didn't seem satisfied. Anchors don't guide. If I'm walking the path of life, I'd rather have a map, GPS, a walking stick, comfortable protective clothing, and a first aid kit.

1 hour ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

Tari, what about this sort of thing (anchor in OP's terminology) as an ideal to keep aiming for, even though it will be missed? Then it can be used to help learn from mistakes made and as encouragement to keep trying.

Missing from Joe's treatise is any mention of curiosity and critical thinking, both helpful in setting up (and changing) ideals and learning from mistakes. And does encouragement come from anchors or people (including self)?

[Klytyna]

30 minutes ago, JoeDex said:

and I hope that you might see validity in the Anchors.

Pointless socio/religious pseudo-science claptrap...

*rolls eyes*
 

[Rhonda Huntress]

39 minutes ago, JoeDex said:

Anchor Number 4
You will fail.

[Madelaine McMasters]

43 minutes ago, JoeDex said:

I hope that you might see validity in the Anchors. 

And you might see validity in this...

http://www.lawsonomy.org/Lawsonomy100.html

We passed this sign on I-94 during countless road trips (it's an hour south of my home) when I was young. I was curious enough about the school that I was allowed to make a long distance call (pre internet, pre 888) to get information. I received a packet in the mail which I think was more or less what's on the site I linked above. It was an entertaining read. My favorite chapters were "Zig, Zag, and Swirl" and "Swirlation".

This talk of anchors has got me remembering that even a stopped clock is right twice a day (except military - right half as often).

Edited July 28, 2017 by Madelaine McMasters

[Ceka Cianci]

I guess I'm just not clicking with the whole Anchor analogy..

Other than the parts where it's kind of being tied to god in some way..

The other parts just don't give me that anchory kinda feel..

Usually I'll feel something the whole way across the board,but it's just not happening here..Maybe it's just me or something..

 

 

Edited July 28, 2017 by Ceka Cianci

[Madelaine McMasters]

48 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Maybe it's just me or something..

It's always you, Ceka.

;-).