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anna2358

Being killed at sim crossings.

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I'm rather fond of sailing and flying in SL.  The main issue I have is that sometimes I get separated from my vehicle at sim crossings and then for some long long time afterwards I float off across the sims, totally out of control.  And when the simulator finally gets round to grounding me, I can go straight ahead but not turn.  The only answer is a re-log.

I have been trying to catalog what causes this.  I have a very fast 8-core AMD processor, a super-powerful nVidia GTX1080Ti graphics card, but maybe not the fastest internet collection (I live the 3rd-world internet region of North UK).  I use Linux and can't change that.

Clearly going slow helps - but doesn't eliminate the issue.  Also I noticed that using a VPN increases the ping time, and hurts this too.  Oh, and I know you can't cross a corner.

Is there anything else that I can avoid that will help?  (Please note I am NOT complaining about it)

Edited by anna2358

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Fellow Brit here (filthy southerner, though :D) and I hear you on the internet connection. I have 8MB down, and - unless I fork out silly money every month - FTTC ain't happening in the small market town where I live. Pings are bloody horrendous at the best of times, and I rarely drive or pilot anything faster than my own feet around SL for the exact reasons you're having problems with. I sometimes drag out a motorbike and have a laugh as I end up buried in someone's prize prim petunias after a dodgy region crossing, but it's really off-putting sometimes. The only thing I've found that alleviates region crossings even the tiniest bit (and even then I'm not sure it's relevant) is taking them at an angle rather than hitting them head-on, which is easier to achieve in a wide expanse of ocean or sky than it is on a road. Might be worth a try?

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invites @Skell Daggerand @anna2358 to come live with me in the luxury of Liverpool internet I have :D 

I have cake 

That's all though, nothing else to offer on sim crossings to help

Edited by Cindy Evanier
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Well, I don't live in Britain and have an Insane Level Fiber connection, and I have the exact same issues at sim crossings.

I think the issue is on LLs side at the handoff between servers, but someone more hardware-savvy might have more to say on the subject.

Unfortunately, unlike Cindy  I don't have cake - but I do have a fresh-baked Chess Pie.......

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There are a bunch of regions in the blake sea, that are on different RC channel servers, and main channel servers, so it's quite common when sailing for you to cross from one server code version to another, practically at every crossing.

Things known to affect sim crossings adversly, large inventories, high rci, high script counts, lot's of attached 'prims'. At times even wearing mesh could cause problems (there were reports of mesh boats and planes being unable to make sim crossings during the piecemeal pathfinding rc rollouts way back).

Remove anything you don't need, wear that applier bikini instead of the fancy gacha complete set with rares mesh outfit, take off those hug and kiss huds, rp chat renamers, radar huds etc., empty the trash folder.

Above all, go slow, helicopters drifting over borders suffer less than jet fighters screaming over them. Buy a hot air balloon...

 

Edited by Klytyna
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15 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

 

Above all, go slow, helicopters drifting over borders suffer less than jet fighters screaming over them. Buy a hot air balloon...

 

I rezzed a toob floatie the other day and floated across a bunch of sims with out any problems. Plus if you are lucky some hot guy on a yacht will sail by and offer u a lift.

:)

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1 hour ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I rezzed a toob floatie the other day and floated across a bunch of sims with out any problems. Plus if you are lucky some hot guy on a yacht will sail by and offer u a lift.

I read that as boob floatie :$

Thinking about it a boob floatie could attract the hot guy?

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5 hours ago, Klytyna said:

....take off those hug and kiss huds...

 


 

Hey, how did you know?

OK I got it.  The wonderful 4000 Linden airplane needs a noob non-mesh naked pilot.  Phew.

I hadn't thought that size of inventory was an issue (mine is about 50000), but I guess I can do some packing into boxes...

Thanks anyway.

 

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Hello!

The reason behind this isn't a user problem (unless terribad internet connection, also what I mention next), but instead, the way simulators communicate.

The current way simulators communicate is a sim detects you are trying to cross the sim. First it will check if a sim is actually there by asking the data server if a sim at that position is online, if so, the magic begins.

First part of sending your avatar is we gotta get it all packed up nice and neat. So we pause everything to your avatar and take a digital snapshot saving every detail from script memory to script state to the particles on assessories. We put the snapshot in with a checksum for bubble wrap and save it to the data server.

There are some things that can go wrong here though:

  • The sim can have an issue with saving the script state of many scripts. I rarely encounter this because I remove all customisation scripts and resizers and other stuff. I also remove scripts from stuff that I don't need scripted(eg: feet, tail, etc).
  • A script is worn or the vehicle has a script that is poorly coded causing the sim to cry as it desperately tries to find a good time to save the state of the script.
  • The sim forgets to save the state of the avatar to the data server.(an error occured during upload to data server)
  • A hippo is missing

Now we send a http request to the server saying "hello! I want to give you control over this avatar! I saved their state at this uuid and they will be arriving at this position". The new sim accepts this and copies in the state and tells the other sim "ok I unpacked the user! Tell their viewer that it is safe to come in!"

Some things that can go wrong here:

  • The viewer decides to be stubborn and says "no! That's no good, I'm staying in this sim where it is warm."
  • The other sim as stated above didn't save the state to the asset server and the sim has a panic attack as it keeps asking the data server for a non existent state.
  • The new sim has had its critical capabilities severed and cries as it cannot give the viewer a proper hello, or even accept the avatar from  the sim that wants to give it.
  • A hippo is missing

 

While I am sure there are a few other things that can go wrong during avatar transit, this gives a basic idea of what's going wrong. Simulators are amazing but delicate creatures, a marvel of engineering. But sometimes they make mistakes, or cannot find their hippo.

However do not fret, Linden Lab is constantly making changes so simulators can almost always find their hippo, thus improving cross sim travel. It isn't a easy task though, and remember, SL in whole is a old 2002 code base, but with the constant love that LL gives it, it'll keep going forever.

Edited by Chaser Zaks
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9 hours ago, anna2358 said:

Is there anything else that I can avoid that will help?  (Please note I am NOT complaining about it)

As above best are to remove every script possible, all mesh, even to the point of removing hair and wearing just a hat - or hair base. 

Other tips to reduce are to cross away from the sim corners so that you can be fully accepted by the new sim before hitting a third.

Also keep your draw distance over 256M, more is better, so that you are not loading a lot of information at the same time you cross.

 

Lastly, if you fly/sail with someone and they have your edit rights they can edit the vehicle to lock it in place while you relog. Then you can recover it, and they stop the edit.

 

 

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12 hours ago, anna2358 said:

Hey, how did you know?

OK I got it.  The wonderful 4000 Linden airplane needs a noob non-mesh naked pilot.  Phew.

I hadn't thought that size of inventory was an issue (mine is about 50000), but I guess I can do some packing into boxes...

Thanks anyway.


 

Back when, in the days when I'd fly and sail more, you'd see the real 'hardcore' SL-Navigators...

These people would have exactly TWO outfits...

!. A system T-shirt and pants outfit with system shoes (shoebase with a shoe colored sock texture), and system hair.

2. Ditto but no shoes, wearing a swimsuit.

The only other thing in their inventory was their folder with all their boats planes cars and bikes in it.



 

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UK - fibre connection and just walked across a boundary. Didn't even run. I ended up 3900m in the air in one of our buildings (not even where I've set to home) and I went from standing to sitting. Prior to this I ended up a mere 4 sims away from where I started. Whatever we were told about improving sim crossings a few years back was a load of rubbish. they're worse.

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As I'm sure you all know, the key to minimising sim crossing crashes is situational awareness. Be absolutely sure where sim boundaries, and even more critically, sim corners are, at all times.

Avoid corners like the plague. Before starting a turn, or other manoeuvre, be sure you can complete it before any sim boundary. Slow down for the actual crossing, cross travelling straight and level, and dont try to manoeuvre until you are safely over. Dont cross at a very shallow angle, and of course, never travel along a sim boundary.

Ok..situational awareness. But how?

Firestorm is the answer. The firestorm minimap has a "show" option (right click it). Choose property lines and map textures.

Yaay! There are the sim boundaries! The regular big squares.  Keep minimap open at all times. I have it bottom left, one quarter screen height. Zoom it with the mouse wheel to show you about half way into nearby sims.

Now watch it like a hawk, plan ahead, how you will tackle the next crossing.

And of course, don't try to enter a plain black one. Nothing is there.

I do still crash, of course, but not often. I make quite long journeys. Sailboats, submarines, and helicopters mostly. Speed kills.

And I carry my full load of attachments, scripts etc. I tried the low-lag classic outfit thing. Seems to make no difference, despite all the advice above.

Since I started this regime, although long journeys are still slightly challenging, it's mostly ban lines that get me (damn them).

Having to be alert, scanning continually across multiple information sources is actually quite realistic. In RL flying, you are taught a particular pattern of eye movements, scanning across the instruments, which soon becomes instinctive.

 

 

Edited by Ellie Edo
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Scotland here on crappy net, sim crossings drive me mad one day and are noticeably better the next, I chalk it up to SL, you can do the whole classic shape/outfit practically zero scripts thing, one day it will help considerably, the next, not one bit, you will know before you start cause its the same days walking 10 feet causes rubber banding in a dead sim. 

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Issues with simcrossings are as old as SL itself


Avoid simcorners

Pass a simborder always at a 90 degrees angle

Dont turn or steer while passing a simborder

The slower you move, the better

Try to be as low scripted as you can



 

 

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I disagree with some of the advice. I sail regularly with no more issues than anyone else. I have an inventory size greater than 150, 000 items, I don't see why that should make any difference on crossings. Whilst more bandwidth is always nice, I have just a 3mb connection realstically rarely giving more than 2mb on speed tests. I wear mesh body and clothes without much problem althouģh my rendercost is rarely above 40k and about 20 scripts. Scripts I would say is the thing that can cause most problems keep that as low as is reasonable. If you are racing a system avatar with simple system clothes will be optimal but the gain from what I normally wear is marginal or barely noticeable.
Crossing Sims at an angle isn't a problem I have ever noticed.
For the problem you describe where after a SIM crossing failure you can't turn the remedy is a recover hud you can get from most sailors and is available from the LCC cruise notecards.
With firestorm you can display parcel borders on the minimap and is useful for avoiding ban lines.
Finally contrary to earlier advice I would turn draw distance down a bit especially if the area is busy with textures like on a river system.

Edited by Aethelwine

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My strategy is to blast through regions as fast as possible so the server gremlins can't catch you.  xD

You'd be surprised how often it works.

Chaser's post is a good one though.  There's a LOT of behind the scenes stuff that happens to pass an avatar from one sim to another.  Crossings can be frustrating sometimes but they do really well overall.

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Sim cossings have improved in the last 10 years dramatically. I don't see very often flying sailboats anymore. And crashing while sailing hardly happens anymore for me.
Flying can be bad at times.
I was one of the first residents that tested the recovery hud. It never worked for me...

A lot of these issues are not the same for everyone. Simcrossing at a 90 degrees angle helps a lot for me. same for being low scripted and wear a system body with no mesh at all.

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Hey Donovan!

  I agree with you on running out the gremlins;) 

 But even when they catch up, it's fun getting the extra aerial view! Sometimes though, it makes me feel as though I'm in the matrix;)

 

 

 

LRC_VisitMainland_Poster_1.png

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