Do I need to start all over with a new avatar before getting a new skin?

[kurt28]

Someone told me that the newer skins have less prims which is suppose to be a good thing.  I want to get a new skin for my avatar, but my original avatar (before applying a skin) is a few years old.  Does that mean that my original avatar has more prims than necessary?  Do I need to start all over with a new avatar before getting a new skin? 

[Skell Dagger]

I don't know who told you that skins have prims, because they don't. I think you may be getting confused between system skins that you wear on your system avatar, and applier skins that you apply to a purchased mesh body?

Regardless, there's no need to start all over with a new avatar. You can change anything you want about your current avatar without having to create a new one.

[Chic Aeon]

Along with what Skell said which was absolutely correct, they MAY have been saying that the new MESH BODIES are lower land impact (we don't use prims anymore) than some of the original ones. You don't NEED a mesh body but if you like shopping and clothes --- well it is difficult to keep "your look" these days and be "in style" (all a matter of how you look at it of course) without getting a mesh body. THEN you need an applier skin to go OVER  or ON the mesh body. I suggest looking up Mesh Body Adicts and reading their info and then do lots and lots of body demos with skins to find one that you feel is "you". 

 

And if you don't care that much about clothes, then just stay as you are and enjoy your vintage look. That works too. You CAN get a new skin for your system avatar but more and more skin creators are ONLY making mesh body appliers, so you will need to find a brand that still has system skins if you just want a new look and not a smooth mesh body. 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

Skins still need to be for system avatars as well as come with appliers, because i personally wear the system skin for my non-mesh head, then use the applier to add the skin to my mesh body. Skin makers not offering a system avi version will lose a large group of potential customers.

Edited July 22, 2017 by BilliJo Aldrin
shortened for clarity

[LittleMe Jewell]

Staying with a classic non-mesh avatar does not mean that you can't look good or be in style or that you look 'vintage / old / out-of-date'.  I don't think I've done too bad with my 'classic' look.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

6 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Staying with a classic non-mesh avatar does not mean that you can't look good or be in style or that you look 'vintage / old / out-of-date'.  I don't think I've done too bad with my 'classic' look.

 

You look great, but please tell me you at least have mesh feet, those system feet make me cringe whenever i see them .

[LittleMe Jewell]

3 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

You look great, but please tell me you at least have mesh feet, those system feet make me cringe whenever i see them .

Yes, I have added mesh feet and I'm even looking at the mesh hands since the system ones are horrid (though not as bad as system feet). 

I'm still reading on the mesh body stuff and just having such a hard time wrapping my head around it all.  I missed way too much in my years of being away and I don't want to jump in too soon.

Sometimes I think it is harder on those of us that learned things one way and then went away and came back to a whole different world.  The ones that never left, grew with the changes and the newer ones never knew anything else.

 

And Thank you!

Edited July 22, 2017 by LittleMe Jewell

[kurt28]

This stuff is really confusing to me.  I couldn't even figure out how to purchase this skin in secondlife. 

I found a skin that seems to be the best one I've found.  Is there any reason why I shouldn't go with this skin? 

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/GAEG-Full-Skins-Hugo-ST5-Chestnut-Omega-Applier/9781737

Is it an old skin?  Or something wrong with it? 

And what does the ST5 stand for?

What is Omega Applier?

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 hour ago, kurt28 said:

This stuff is really confusing to me.  I couldn't even figure out how to purchase this skin in secondlife. 

I found a skin that seems to be the best one I've found.  Is there any reason why I shouldn't go with this skin? 

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/GAEG-Full-Skins-Hugo-ST5-Chestnut-Omega-Applier/9781737

Is it an old skin?  Or something wrong with it? 

And what does the ST5 stand for?

What is Omega Applier?

I highly recommend going here and reading everything under Tutorials - it helped me tons:  http://meshbodyaddicts.com/

[Ivanova Shostakovich]

On 7/22/2017 at 6:56 AM, LittleMe Jewell said:

Staying with a classic non-mesh avatar does not mean that you can't look good or be in style or that you look 'vintage / old / out-of-date'.  I don't think I've done too bad with my 'classic' look.

   This thread got poked a little bit ago. And so, I saw this photo again. You are gorgeous.

   Oh.. I see there are some flowers there too.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Ivanova Shostakovich
For obvious reasons.

[Bitsy Buccaneer]

5 hours ago, kurt28 said:

This stuff is really confusing to me.  I couldn't even figure out how to purchase this skin in secondlife. 

I found a skin that seems to be the best one I've found.  Is there any reason why I shouldn't go with this skin? 

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/GAEG-Full-Skins-Hugo-ST5-Chestnut-Omega-Applier/9781737

Is it an old skin?  Or something wrong with it? 

And what does the ST5 stand for?

What is Omega Applier?

There is a very good reason why you shouldn't buy it. It requires a mesh body and head. See the part in capitals in the ad:
 

Quote

 

This Full Skins Applier is made for the OMEGA COMPATIBLE MESH BODIES/HEADS ONLY.

► Please verify the compatibility of your mesh product with the Omega System first.

 

Omega is the brand name of a way of 'applying' clothing and skin textures to a variety of mesh bodies. Some mesh bodies and heads require proprietary 'applier' systems (their own brand is the only one that works). Some mesh bodies and heads also work with the Omega system as well. It's like the generic applier.

I don't know what ST5 is, but numbers in skin names can refer to lightness-darkness. Like the palest will be Tone 0 or Tone 1 and the darkest 5 or 9 or however many shades that creator makes. Each creator does it differently though, so it's worth taking a moment to figure it out for one you like.

Look for a skin that says Classic or System Avatar. Those will work without a mesh body or head. Older skins will work too, but might not be labelled as Classic unless the advertising has been redone.

This is all very confusing. It must be exhausting to be new or returning. It does eventually start to make some sort of sense.

[Skell Dagger]

What Bitsy said. Anything that contains the words 'applier' or 'Omega' will only work with a mesh head and/or body that you've purchased to wear over your classic/system avatar.

In addition, many designers now use logos on their adverts to show which bodies their items will work with. While it's not something that's been adopted 100% across the board (ie: you should still read all descriptions and check any text on the ad image) this is the one that they use for system/classic avatars:

This (and the other mesh body/head logos) won't be on older skin adverts that are solely for classic avatars, so you need to make sure that you read the descriptions. Also, see my post below for one caveat: just because you see that logo on a skin advert that doesn't mean it will work on your system/classic avatar.

Also note: The skin applier that you linked there is what the creator calls a "full skin". Once you get into the realm of mesh heads and bodies, you usually end up having to buy two parts: the mesh head applier and a separate body applier. This is because people don't always buy their mesh heads and bodies from the same designer and thus often need (for example) a head applier for a Catwa brand head and a body applier for a Signature brand body. GA.EG sell both heads and bodies, thus their applier skins are sold in full packages.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Skell Dagger

[Skell Dagger]

Adding to this: here is the full set of 'Hugo' system skins by GA.EG. You will see that the ad image has - in the top left - the 'classic avatars' logo, but before you consider buying them note one thing in the description:

These are skins to be worn by people who have a mesh head (ie: they would buy the separate mesh head applier) worn on a system/classic avatar. If you were to purchase them, you would find they were perfectly detailed on the body... but had a completely white head.

Always, always check the description. And always, always try a demo before considering a purchase.

[LittleMe Jewell]

8 hours ago, Ivanova Shostakovich said:

   This thread got poked a little bit ago. And so, I saw this photo again. You are gorgeous.

   Oh.. I see there are some flowers there too.

And as always, you are super sweet. Thank you.

 

(I have started learning and playing with the Maitreya Lara mesh body though).

Edited July 27, 2017 by LittleMe Jewell

[LittleMe Jewell]

2 hours ago, Skell Dagger said:

Adding to this: here is the full set of 'Hugo' system skins by GA.EG. You will see that the ad image has - in the top left - the 'classic avatars' logo, but before you consider buying them note one thing in the description:

These are skins to be worn by people who have a mesh head (ie: they would buy the separate mesh head applier) worn on a system/classic avatar. If you were to purchase them, you would find they were perfectly detailed on the body... but had a completely white head.

Always, always check the description. And always, always try a demo before considering a purchase.

From all of the various mesh discussions I've seen, I didn't know that people used mesh heads with system bodies.  It seems like the mesh head purchase is something folks do with or after going to a mesh body.  Interesting to note.

[Skell Dagger]

11 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

From all of the various mesh discussions I've seen, I didn't know that people used mesh heads with system bodies.  It seems like the mesh head purchase is something folks do with or after going to a mesh body.  Interesting to note.

I think that's how it usually goes, primarily because mesh heads are pretty complex things when you're starting out with them. (Case in point: I'm no slouch after ten years when it comes to SL fashion trends, but it still took me a few days of constant fiddling until I felt comfortable that I knew and understood everything I could do with my mesh head's HUD, and I'm still learning stuff about it). By contrast, a mesh body is relatively simple: you have your three applier layers that are similar to the clothing layers we're all familiar with, your alpha HUD, and a few extras such as optional hands, feet, neck fixes, etc.

However, I'm sure there are a few people who save on the expense of a mesh body and just wear a mesh head and hands. I guess their viewpoint is that - if they're usually covered up with mesh clothing - there's no reason to wear a mesh body when only your hands and neck are usually showing. They spend their money on a decent mesh head instead. (Also, of course, not wearing a mesh body saves on rendering cost. If you're all gussied up in a full suit, you've most likely got your entire body except the neck alpha'd out anyway.)

[LittleMe Jewell]

9 hours ago, Skell Dagger said:

I guess their viewpoint is that - if they're usually covered up with mesh clothing - there's no reason to wear a mesh body when only your hands and neck are usually showing. They spend their money on a decent mesh head instead. (Also, of course, not wearing a mesh body saves on rendering cost. If you're all gussied up in a full suit, you've most likely got your entire body except the neck alpha'd out anyway.)

That makes sense, though probably more so for men than women simply because we have much more clothing options that show more skin.

[kurt28]

Quote

There is a very good reason why you shouldn't buy it. It requires a mesh body and head.

Then why does it say "full skin".  And why does it say that the face and body is included?  Is the mesh body and head that I need to go with it like the bones that the skin go over top of?  And where can I get the mesh body and head?

 

Quote

These are skins to be worn by people who have a mesh head (ie: they would buy the separate mesh head applier) worn on a system/classic avatar. If you were to purchase them, you would find they were perfectly detailed on the body... but had a completely white head.

Are you saying they would have a white head if you didn't have a separate mesh head applier?  Or white with a mesh head applier?  And is a system classic avatar the same thing as a standard avatar?  It says it's made for standard avatars only.  How do i know what kind of avatar I currently have?

 

[Lillith Hapmouche]

7 hours ago, kurt28 said:

Then why does it say "full skin".  And why does it say that the face and body is included?

It probably says "full skin" because - unlike a lot of other offers - you'll receive a set of a matching body and head applier, when you buy the L$1,480 offer.
It is quite common standard that you buy a body and a head applier as seperate offers.

Sticking with the product description of the 1480L one, it does say "included: Face/Body/Hands/Feet" ... but what it is probably meant to say is that there aren't any mesh faces, bodies, hands or feet included, but rather that the appliers will put a texture on your existing face, body, hands and feet.

 

7 hours ago, kurt28 said:

Is the mesh body and head that I need to go with it like the bones that the skin go over top of?

Yes, that's a good way to imagine how it works.

Another one would be like this: you got a car as a basis from any random car dealer. Then you take it to a paintshop and have it sprayed / put stickers on it ...

 

7 hours ago, kurt28 said:

And where can I get the mesh body and head?

The 1480L appliers require any Omega compatible head or body. 
 

7 hours ago, kurt28 said:

Are you saying they would have a white head if you didn't have a separate mesh head applier?  Or white with a mesh head applier?

That depends on the skin creator... base skins for the classic SL body might have completely white, bare faces, if they are meant to be worn with mesh heads. The skins of that L$720 offer are a fine example for that - just a base skin for the SL body, intended to be worn as a combi of a mesh head with your normal body.

A mesh head might come with a basic texture or perhaps even a small selection of premade tones from the creator.
 

7 hours ago, kurt28 said:

And is a system classic avatar the same thing as a standard avatar?  It says it's made for standard avatars only.  How do i know what kind of avatar I currently have?

Usually, yes, classic and standard avatars should mean the same - and if any creator attempts to mix that up or add a new meaning to it, they should be slapped around the block.

Mesh "bodies" are actually an attachment like any other mesh accessory. You're in your classic system standard avatar if you wear no other body stuff but the plain old body shape.

[Skell Dagger]

8 hours ago, kurt28 said:

Then why does it say "full skin".

It says "full skin" because that is this specific creator's way of saying "you get both the head applier and the body applier in this pack, and don't have to buy them separately".

8 hours ago, kurt28 said:

Is the mesh body and head that I need to go with it like the bones that the skin go over top of?

Sort of...

I'm going to go full-on "For Dummies" guide here:

You are familiar with the old type of SL avatar. The skin was a layer that - when worn - was kind of 'painted on' over the avatar's shape. The skin's icon looked like a human figure. This type of skin was only ever referred to as a "skin".

Mesh body parts such as heads and bodies are OBJECTS that you wear, which cover entirely your original old SL avatar. You first need to wear an alpha layer to make your original avatar invisible. (If you left SL before alpha layers were introduced, they're not like the invisiprims that made your feet invisible while wearing shoes, but they do the same thing.) Then you wear the objects that are your mesh head and your mesh body.

After this, you then wear the skin applier HUD for the skin that you want to apply (hence the name 'applier') to the body. You will have to wear a separate skin applier HUD for the head, since none of the main designers are making all-in-one head and body combinations yet. (Some stores sell both mesh heads and bodies, but they are attached/worn as separate items.)

You then click the skin applier HUD to apply the skin that you want to wear on the head and body. These HUDs often have multiple options in a single HUD. For a face HUD you might have options for a plain skin, a skin with freckles, a skin with facial hair, etc.

The same goes with the body skin applier HUDs: they may include versions for body hair or no body hair, more defined abdominal muscles, etc. Once you've applied the skin you want, you can remove the applier HUDs.

So, in short, mesh bodies and heads are (in some way) like "the bones that the skin go over top of" as you said, but they work in a different way.

8 hours ago, kurt28 said:

Are you saying they would have a white head if you didn't have a separate mesh head applier?  Or white with a mesh head applier?

It would be white with either. The skins mentioned there are ones for the old, original SL avatar (the "painted-on" layers). They are meant to be worn with ONLY a mesh head. The customer who has a mesh head but not a mesh body would buy that skin and then a mesh head skin applier. Since the entire head part of the "painted on" skin will be made invisible by an alpha layer (so that the mesh head can be worn) the designer hasn't bothered to include the details of the face, and has left it white.

I'm going to pause here for a side note. You have been confused from the very beginning of this post by the word 'SKIN'. At the start you stated:

On 22/07/2017 at 3:15 AM, kurt28 said:

Someone told me that the newer skins have less prims which is suppose to be a good thing.

Skins do not have prims. Two of the four main parts of an SL avatar (the very basic kind, without any mesh additions or clothing) are as follows:

SHAPE - A set of measurements that define the overall and individual body part dimensions of the avatar

SKIN - A layer that goes over the shape and gives it a visible form

A skin cannot have prims. That would be like expecting to find actual paintbrushes in each brushstroke of a painting.

I think the reason you are getting confused is because most major skin-makers these days work by default for mesh heads and bodies, thus some of them no longer differentiate between the terms "skin" and "skin applier". They use the terms interchangeably.

Consider the word "phone". Twenty years ago it would have applied to a landline only. Ten years ago older people might have considered it as a landline and younger people a cellphone/mobile phone. Nowadays, most people consider it to mean a cellphone/mobile phone. Technology has moved on, and you are - within SL - effectively that "older person" who now has to re-learn the new meaning of a word, while we're in that middle "ten years ago" period when it could still mean the old thing or the new thing, but it's increasingly meaning the new thing.

You now have to use the cues and visuals that designers offer you, to decide whether a skin is an older type one that you can use or the newer one that can only be used on a mesh head and/or body. Those cues include:

• Read the description (if you're shopping on Marketplace)
• Look for the 'classic avatars' icon (which I posted here earlier) on the ad image
• Look for other logos on the ad image, like a red and white one, a purple 'Omega' symbol, a blue 'S' on a white background - those are all signifiers of a mesh applier and not one that can be used on a classic avatar (UNLESS it also includes the classic avatar logo)
• Try a demo (skins have always - and still do - come with demos. If you get the demo and it contains nothing that you recognise as a classic skin - instead only having a box that, when worn, puts a HUD on your screen - then it's for a mesh head/body only
• If shopping in Marketplace, click to view the contents of the item. Assuming the creators hasn't boxed everything up, you'll often see a list of what's included.

Here's an example of what I mean. This is an ad for an applier-only body and head. Note the use of icons to show which mesh bodies and head this would work with. There is NO indication that this will work on an old-style avatar.

(Other skin brands are available! )

8 hours ago, kurt28 said:

is a system classic avatar the same thing as a standard avatar?  It says it's made for standard avatars only.

They all mean the same thing (which is why I've used the forward slash when I've mentioned them) - system/classic/standard avatars are all the original old SL avatars that you - as an almost six-year-old account in SL - will be fully familiar with. Nobody can agree on one word to use for it, so different people use different words.

8 hours ago, kurt28 said:

How do i know what kind of avatar I currently have?

If you have not spent the money to specifically buy a mesh body and/or head then you have a system/classic/standard avatar. (Remember: they all mean the same thing.)

The only exception to this is if you're still wearing one of the old Linden Lab Mesh Starter Avatars (see this image). These cannot be customised in any way, and have actually been removed from the starter avatar options now (although they are still accessible via the inventory library).

8 hours ago, kurt28 said:

And where can I get the mesh body and head?

You need to shop around, since many different designers sell mesh bodies and heads. Be warned: they are not cheap. A good quality mesh body with hands and feet will set you back around L$2000 and a good quality *Bento-enabled mesh head will set you back around L$5000. You can buy non-Bento heads much more cheaply (from around L$900) but they don't offer the same range of customisation options.

(*If you need "Bento" explained then that will be a whole 'nother series of posts. In short: a Bento mesh head will respond to changes that you make to the shape of your face using the Edit Appearance sliders, and a non-Bento head will not.)

I would strongly suggest that you NOT consider a mesh head just yet. They are much more complex to get to grips with than a mesh body (which can be explained fairly simply). LittleMe has already posted the link to the Mesh Body Addicts blog in this thread, so start by reading there to get an idea of the options you have.

One other tip I will offer you: Do NOT choose the 'TMP' (The Mesh Project) body or head. While it's mentioned on that blog, it's now nearly obsolete, has not been updated in two years, runs on its own proprietary external server system, and is now not recommended by anyone who is even vaguely "in the know" about mesh bodies and heads. The design team is rumoured to have split up, they've not updated their social media accounts for almost two years, and once those external servers are switched off, all TMP bodies and heads will be rendered useless. NOT recommended.

The main male mesh bodies right now are:

• Signature 'Gianni'
• Slink 'Physique'
• Absolut Creations 'Adam'
• Belleza 'Jake'
• Niramyth 'Aesthetic'
• NX-Nardcotix 'David'

Some of the male mesh head designers include:

• Catwa
• GA.EG
• LOGO
• Akeruka
• Altamura
• Absolut Creations
• Samurai HQ
• No!Project
• Genesis Labs

Most of those designers have multiple mesh head options (eg: Catwa, which probably has the edge on market share) currently has three male mesh heads: Daniel, Stanley, and Shaheen).

Regardless of what you decide to go with, my last piece of advice (and the one that - if I must - I will hammer into your skull with a judiciously-wielded bit of 2x4 ) is DEMO EVERYTHING. Don't drop any large sums of money without trying on as many options as you can.

And now, having typed a veritable novel in response to this thread, I'm off in search of a large mug of tea.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Skell Dagger

[Marianne Little]

8 hours ago, kurt28 said:

How do i know what kind of avatar I currently have?

 

I really don't think you are ready for mesh body parts.

Why all this? Is it really worth it? A full mesh body plus a mesh head will easy cost you over 10 000 L, and then you must buy clothes and shoes, because if you have a lot of old clothes, they might not fit. The old clothes with shirt, pants, jacket symbols. Forget them. Not usable any more. Older mesh clothes might not fit good either. 1-2 years ago when mesh was new, is like a decade in real life, so much has improved.

You would be better off investing a few thousand in new mesh clothes, and some good hair.

[Teagan Tobias]

Wow, what a great thread. But it has cemented me firmly in the position of not spending thousands of lindens on a mesh avatar. And yes, you do need to start all over from the very beginning.

Also you may consider something I did, after getting demo after demo of mesh avatars I settled on one that I liked, did not buy, but if I did buy that would be the one. Then I went shopping, I need jeans, those look nice, not for the avatar I would own, oh those look nice, again will not fit the avatar I would own had I bought the one I like. Time after time item after item things that I looked at and liked I could not fit the mesh avatar I like into. Yes I did find a lot of clothing that would fit her, but what I liked the most I would not have been able to wear, just something else to think about.

Go shopping for things you like, and if you can't find what your looking for before you purchase the avatar, there is an excellent chance you will not find it after you buy the avatar.

But one thing is for sure, they are beautiful, but just not for everyone, its a lot of money and that is the one thing I don't have.

[Skell Dagger]

27 minutes ago, Teagan Tobias said:

Also you may consider something I did, after getting demo after demo of mesh avatars I settled on one that I liked, did not buy, but if I did buy that would be the one. Then I went shopping, I need jeans, those look nice, not for the avatar I would own, oh those look nice, again will not fit the avatar I would own had I bought the one I like. Time after time item after item things that I looked at and liked I could not fit the mesh avatar I like into. Yes I did find a lot of clothing that would fit her, but what I liked the most I would not have been able to wear, just something else to think about.

Good point, Teagan. The ladies do have more options when it comes to mesh bodies, but only just; the gents are (at last!) catching up, but I know that Maitreya has pretty much cornered the market when it comes to which female mesh body designers create for the most often.

For men, that same most created-for is currently split between two bodies: Slink and Signature. Belleza is rapidly coming up into their league (and also, Signature-fit clothing works well on the Belleza body) since designers have latched onto it very quickly. The Mens Dept already had Belleza-fit clothing the month after that body was released, and many big designers are updating their old mesh clothing to include Belleza fit.

[kurt28]

I appreciate you all taking the time to help me understand this stuff.  But, I still feel confused as hell.  I don't understand why they've made the process so complicated.  They should have kept things simple.  It took me forever to find a skin that I actually liked.  And even after reading all of this I'm still not sure how to get the whole body.  I read all of the comments and I still can't grasp this stuff.  I don't even know how to demo the thing.  Or how to tell what clothes work with it.  I might as well quite asking questions because this is all lost on me.  

[Lillith Hapmouche]

Who are those "they"s you mention?

And what's so difficult about picking up a demo and playing with it to get some practical experience?

The rest ... well sorry, but it is like it is ... consists of reading comprehension and shopping awareness.