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PartySmile

PC graphics card advice needed

Question

Hi forum,

i've got a upgraded ASrock vision 3D 137B that i would like to use for SL.

The OS is W7 Ultimate 64x

Originally it had a i3 CPU but now a i7 CPU.

It had 2x 1 Gb DDR3 and was also upgraded to the max. 2 x 4 Gb DDR 1066 Mhz.

That all should be fine to run SL but the weak? point might be my Graphics chip/card.

That is a NVIDIA GeForce GT 425M.

Hopefully there is someone here who is willing to give me advice what my possibilities are to run SL.

Kind regards,

 

Party

 

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Well, almost any card you can buy will be an improvement >>>

e97eed6b4abc96630bec929255492a33.png

The general rule is to buy the most powerful card that you can afford.  You are always racing against obsolescence, so buying a powerful card now means that you probably won't have to turn around and replace it again for a while.  Whatever you decide on, do check how much space and power you have, though.  I put a GT1070 card in my computer last spring and had to upgrade the case and the power supply too.

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Good morning, Nalates,

thank you for your kind and usefull info! :)

The advices given here are, of course, well ment but faster doesn't have to be always better.

They also say that we shouldn't judge a book by it's cover.

It's not that Lillith is a bit hard but she presents herself as a sarcastic and prejudgemental  "know it all".

She insist to think that i bought faulty and overpriced "mistakes" (even three times..!) even though she could have read the reactions/answers better.

I never stated anywhere that i bought my old vision 3d for playing SL.

I knew my GC/chip on that system was weak but i wondered if it was possible to upgrade the chip or work around it with an external card.

That was not possible, so i decided to get an "new/different" pc that will allow me to play SL in a nice way (not nessecarely high-end performance).

So, taking notice of the good advices offered here and my wishes and possibilities i gatered the things i wanted.

Lillith is comparing hardware that can't really be compared.

On 15-7-2017 at 6:31 PM, Lillith Hapmouche said:

For a whole new system, a good basic setup for gaming purposes ... and yes, in this case, SL does count as a game... can be built for about $ 560, listing my stubborn Newegg wishlist which refuses to switch to public:

 

Her (wish!)list shows a (TWEAKED!) MSI B250M Pro-VD with a Intel Pentium G4600..

She should have "compared' also the Bluetooth, Wifi, better audio, displayport and HDMI and USB3.1 type C instead of an antique DVI and VGAport ant the very limited B chipset

(B as in businessmachines..) in contrary to my MB that has a K-processor that can handle turbomode on 4.2 Ghz instead 3.66 Ghz.

It also comes with a Z-processor that can be overclocked!

See http://ark.intel.com/compare/97144,97453

Ram 16 Gb ( 2x 8GB DDR4 2133MHz but runs on 2400Ghz) instead of 8Gb.

I choose a Coolermaster Elite 130 as casing so there would be space for a extra graphic card.

I don't disagree that i need an extra GC and that it gives better results, the CPU of the system doesn't have to do the grapics anymore.

The GTX 1050 €134 will be ok, i guess, but a 1050 handles packages from 128 bit and then i'm still not sure that my issues are resolved but a 1080 handles a whopping 352 bit.

Throwing around benchmarknumbers like 1,218 and 11,995 but not looking at the fact that the brandnew GTX1080 is a complete overkill, it allows you to play games like Battlefield and the newest, on a 4K monitor at maximal Ultra settings (!)  the salesprices are between €850 and €1200. SL isn't THAT demanding and my pockets aren't that deep.

It's like she's comparing a fiat 500 with an 150K Merc...

Then she calls the MB "overpriced" ....?

So, i took a peak on tweakers comparing prices for MSi en ASRock Mini-ITX and those prices are not that far apart....

https://tweakers.net/pricewatch/compare/698763;704125/

At least i know for sure that ASRock products/reviews are providing actual and correct productionmotherboards and -BIOS for testing instead tweaked and prepared boards/BIOS.

Yes, you are right that the i5 isn't that outdated.

I choose a Coolermaster Elite 130 as casing so there would be space for a extra graphic card.

On firestorm it shows 50 frames on the FPSmeter and no packageloss (0%)

Perhaps my question should have been if others also experience lagging/issues as i do with a similar setup.
And, if so, is that due to CG-issues or SLserverspeed-issues?

This to determine what GC would suit me best and what would be overkill..

I know that lagging can have many reasons....

(http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/fs_speedtest) and (http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/lag)

 

Kind regards,

 

Party

Edited by PartySmile
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8 minutes ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

your choices seem perfect for you...

(nods) it brought me where i am today :)

Sorry to notice that, again, you have nothing intelligent to add.

Let's leave it with that conclusion.

Have a (good) life!

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Hi Rolig Loon,

thank you for your reply so soon! :)

That's and clear answer, you gave!

I think that what might be a problem is the fact that this PC has the graphics chip embedded in the MB.

Is there a way to detour the signal through an other (better and external?) card?

Kind regards,

 

Party

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It's not uncommon for the motherboard to have an embedded Intel chip.  When you install a dedicated card, its software generally includes a control panel that lets you do all sorts of magic tricks, including disabling the embedded chip.  The NVidia control panel on mine has always done that, anyway, and I assume that the Catalyst control panel does it for AMD/ATI cards too.

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An important note when you are shopping for cards -- especially with an older upgraded system. Be SURE that the power supply will handle the card. If it will not, you can easily burn up your power supply and take the motherboard with it. I purchased a machine (NEW) like that where the power supply was "listed" as good enough to run my graphics card (GeForce GTX 980/PCIe/SSE2) but it was a very "cheap" card and wasn't really as powerful as the maker implied. So be careful and go overboard on your power supply if you can. 

I don't know anything about your system so that was just general advice. I had gone through a few power supplies (I don't over clock but use my system on steroids for sure) and KNEW about that, hence my surprise when I lost a good portion of my new machine. The company which shall remain nameless but no longer a go too place for me or my friends was no help (no surprise as the computer was a MESS when it arrived) but a local shop fixed it up at my cost and so far all has been well. 

Another lesson learned :D. 

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That isn't a laptop, but it IS an itty bitty, teeny weeny computer.  There's no room in it for a stand-alone graphics card, so you'll have to either make do with the one you have or trade that brick in on an actual PC.  

asrockmicro.jpg.f92f936d6fb497faf8200c3afb50307d.jpg

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Good morning (here) Lindal Kidd, Rolig Loon and Chic Aeon

4 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

That isn't a laptop, but it IS an itty bitty, teeny weeny computer.

Nobody so far sugested that it was a laptop ;) but you're right with youre comment that it can't be upgraded with an internal card and that i might have to get me something better.

It has served his purpose excelently for many years and will do so for some more, i hope!

 

9 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

The company which shall remain nameless but no longer a go too place for me or my friends was no help

Another lesson learned :D. 

Shouldn't they be named and shamed actually? ;)

That's one of the reasons i always stick to ASRock.

Their RMA and aftersalessevice are incredible..........(even out of garantee!)

Thank you all for your good and friendliy advices!

 

Kind regards,

 

Party

(smiles)

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Hi again :)

searching for a better system/card for SL i found out that the specs/software provided by the manufacturers a kinda bogus.

Almost all send their hardware for testing with adapted software instead with the regular software it comes out of the factory :(

So their specs can't be trusted.

ASRock doesn't do that so their specs are more trustworthy and reliable to me.

I'll take good notice from Chic Aeon's advice about powercomsumption.

If you have some more good advices, please let me know!

 

Kind regards,

 

PartySmile

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That computer is so tiny! With the Nvidia graphics chip on the motherboard it seems like it would run better than the built-in intel graphics chip that comes in a lot of computers. It looks absolutely un-upgradeable though. Those tiny systems ARE designed more for a multimedia setup like running the audio/video in your living room and not for gaming. I see it described as an HTPC - home theater PC. Gaming computers generate huge amounts of heat and small cases can't contain enough fans and heat fins. 

It seems like you don't need a laptop for portability. The best thing to get is a boxy mid-tower case as Lillith mentions. The tower case allows you to easily fan out heat and results in a quieter and cooler running computer. The important part is to get a good motherboard and power supply. With those, you can skimp on everything else for a cheaper price but be able to upgrade in the future... and you will upgrade... by putting in better graphics cards, more ram, more hard drives, better CPUs, etc. Over the long run, you end up paying less than constantly buying non-upgradeable laptops or tiny computers that will become obsolete in a few years.

Edited by Bree Giffen

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1 hour ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

The Vision 3D mini-boxes are sold as "media machines" and are advertised as such. You bought it for a task it was never meant for. That should have been pretty crystal clear from those specs.

Hi Lillith and Bree :),

i never bought that system to run SL (or games) but just for that what it was ment to be used for: a HTPC, so i would have also internet on the livingroom 3D-TV and have all the audio

and video things in one :). The space that i had to place a HTPC was very limited. thats way i choosed the ASRock Vision 3D/137B at that time.

Even though i upgraded the CPU to an i7 and placed the max of memory(8Gb) and changed the HD for an SSD 256Gb, the bottleneck will be the graphicscard/chip and meddeling with that embedded chip is disadviced.

As Chic Aeon suggested it might be the best to purchase a destined machine for SL. So i agree on that too :)

For now i'm very interested in the Gigabyte brix uhd i7-610 or one of his bigger brothers. ( again because of the limited space i have..)

Maybe some of you knows this system and can tell me more about it for its use on SL?

What concerns me is the heat created running the pc will be higher running a good or better chip/card so cooling is an issue.

Thank you for your help and advice!

 

Party

 

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Hi again Lillith,

4 minutes ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

That's a very expensive second take on the same mistake

Same mistake...? There was no mistake made, as i said,:

47 minutes ago, PartySmile said:

i never bought that system to run SL (or games) but just for that what it was ment to be used for: a HTPC, so i would have also internet on the livingroom 3D-TV and have all the audio

and video things in one :). The space that i had to place a HTPC was very limited. thats way i choosed the ASRock Vision 3D/137B at that time.

But yes, i also think it's a lot of money:)

Can SL be played in actual 3D?

Party

 

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1 hour ago, PartySmile said:

Can SL be played in actual 3D?

If by "actual 3D" you mean VR, no.  Linden Lab had an experimental VR viewer for a couple of years but has abandoned it.  Sansar, which is an entirely different Linden Lab project, will run in VR.

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The HTPC is perfect for running your audio-video but small cases just don't work for gaming. I've had a small Shuttle XPC before. It ran well in the winter when I bought it but when the temperature went up slightly in spring the system kept shutting off due to overheating. First, we cut holes in the case cover, then we took off the cover completely, then it just overheated all the time. I can't stress enough that a small PC just won't work w/ a setup that can run SL. If you MUST have small, look into the external graphics cards and the PCs that will run them. Honestly, those are more like splitting your computer into small boxes rather than putting all parts into one big box. There is also the new Max-Q laptops that will be released soon. 

https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/nvidia-max-q-faq

http://appleinsider.com/articles/17/06/05/apple-announces-support-for-external-graphics-cards-virtual-reality-platforms-in-macos-high-sierra

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Can SL be played in VR? ...yes, BUT...

It is a really way complicated and unsatisfying experience. I'm still dinging around with it. Special software is needed. The Firestorm and Linden viewers aren't set up for it. The old CtrlAltStudio viewer is and will work but, it can't render Bento things.

It takes both some serious CPU and Video power as well as a VR headset.

So, the simple general answer is ... NO. Especially not on MEDIA hardware, which is designed for streaming pre-rendered video. Real time rendering is done on gaming machines.

 

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Hello, back again :)....

recently i bought a new setup/pc.

This one should be a lot better than the Vision 3D:

MB;  Fatal1ty Z270 Gaming-itx/ac

Cpu: i5 7600K

GC: onboard HD Graphics 630 ( no extra GC yet...)

Ram 16 Gb ( 2x 8GB DDR4 2133MHz )

SSD 256 Gb

Power: coolermaster G550M

W10

LAN: cable (fixed wire)

This should meet the min. requirements but running SL i encounter the following problems:

Laggy

avatar doesn't react anymore on cursorcommands for a while.

Graphics are nice but seems to be slow loading...

So i wonder if this is due to my setup or e.g. the SLserver?

Kind regards,

 

Edited by PartySmile
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8 minutes ago, PartySmile said:

onboard HD 530 graphics ( no extra GC yet...)

There's the answer. The HD 530 chip on your motherboard is fine for normal image processing but it cannot handle graphics in SL very well.  You'll need to do something about a dedicated graphics card if you expect better graphics.

7a8f0d3ef84d94595c781ee5abf2ddc6.png

Meanwhile, reduce your draw distance to 64m or so, and drop the quality slider in Preferences >>> Graphics to LOW.

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9 minutes ago, PartySmile said:

It is a Intel HD Graphics 630.

Oooh... that'll change everything! Expect up to full 10% more performance of outstanding integrated quality!
That'll be a whopping 11fps on the 630 instead of the lousy and eyebleeding sore of 10fps on the 530!
One whole more frame for your viewing pleasure!

...
Take a break from downvoting my posts and get a proper GPU.
Whoops, won't fit in your ITX case. Well, too bad. 9_9

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20 minutes ago, PartySmile said:

Hi Rolig Loon,

sorry for the error in my message.

It is a Intel HD Graphics 630.

 

 

That's not much of an improvement over a HD 530.  My answer still stands.  Get a dedicated graphics card.

8e136256859fc6ecf52ad8017374e3c7.png

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36 minutes ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

 

How silly and/or ignorant can a person "boldly" be with their prejudiced assumptions...?


"Take a break from downvoting my posts and get a proper GPU.
Whoops, won't fit in your ITX case...."

Your "answers" where downvoted because they dont add anything.

Save your breath and your time and find yourself an hubby to practice good manners on.

Your parents failed to do so apparently.......

Have a nice day anyway ;)

 

Edited by PartySmile
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Thanks again for your kind reply Rolig Loon :)

as you suggested i had allready planned to get a additional GC that's why i wrote ( no extra GC yet...)  :)

Still figuring out what's best for me.

 

 

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