Jump to content
  • 0

Market Place Fraud


RoxyD0ll
 Share

You are about to reply to a thread that has been inactive for 2446 days.

Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.

Question

I recently purchased a program on MP that was 2000 lindens. Not cheap! At first I really liked the program and would tell all my friends how well it worked. Well, one of my friends was quick to point out the program was available for free under another name. She gave me the link. So, I tried it, and she was correct. It not only does the same thing, it does it better. It does more and for free. Evidently this program has been around for a while. I was unaware of it. So this vendor in question has based their software off this free program. It's possible they've even stolen the idea, but I don't want to jump to conclusions.

So then I wrote the vendor and asked her what was up with that? I showed her the free program and she just said she'd look into it and get back to me. Well, she's not getting back to me, and now I see she's removed the program from MP altogether. Does that spell guilt? I can't be sure, but it sure looks suspicious.

Is there a law against copying something that's free and selling it for huge money? If not there should be. I'm not sure if this is actual fraud, but I definitely feel ripped off!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 answers to this question

Recommended Posts

  • 1

@RoxyD0ll You have a delima. Which copy was the original? Free or 2k?

Some people provide some amazing tools for free. Others steal them and sell them. Others work hard building amazing tools and want or need to be paid for their time. People steal those and give them away for free. Either scenario is a problem for the original creator and customers.

Ownership of things in SL is addressed in the ToS. Actual ownership is subject to RL law. The ToS just explains what rights you give the Lab when uploading. So, RL copyright and patent laws apply. Also, States (USA) have various laws about truth in advertising. Fraud in most forms is illegal everywhere. But, there is no law against selling things free elsewhere for a profit.

So, whether you have a legitimate complaint is dependent or whether a crime or unethical act was committed based on a number of factors. Complex.

If you chase down all the facts and a prosecutable crime was committed, you have the problem of how law enforcement will see the crime. A US$7.70 theft is not going to be worth the time and effort of the police to pursue. The FBI usually does not investigate any cyber crimes that cause less than $250k in damages.

The result of all this is: we are pretty much on our own.

The Lab will not enforce RL law. They are not a law enforcement entity. There are laws against vigilantism. They can refuse to provide service to an individual based on a violation of the ToS agreement we all agreed to and that is about it.

See: Second Life – Copybot Viewer Debate - Video and article.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
22 minutes ago, RoxyD0ll said:

I recently purchased a program on MP that was 2000 lindens. Not cheap! At first I really liked the program and would tell all my friends how well it worked. Well, one of my friends was quick to point out the program was available for free under another name.

it doesn't have to be illegal... it's perhaps not even totally the same...if it's based on, but slightly different features it's not even a copy.

Perhaps the seller didn't even know.. and might be why she took it off.

 

see it as Paintshop/Photoshop and Gimp ... first two are quite expensive for the full versions... but with some experience you get the same, or nearly the same results with the free Gimp.

 

Of course it's possible it really is a full copy, but still applies what LittleMe already said.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

Intellectual property rights extend to scripts as well as anything else we create, but it's often difficult to tell for sure what's an original script.  As a scripter myself, I tend to cut and paste bits of code from other scripts I have written, reusing concepts and functions in new ways.  I also learn from my scripting colleagues, and we share freely among ourselves when we find new ways of doing things.  Copying another person's script verbatim and presenting it as your own is a major no-no, but I'd be hard pressed to say how many bits and pieces you can recycle before you have a new script.  At the very least, you may feel indignant that you paid money for something that you could have found for free.  On the other hand, if you were willing to buy it for L$2000 and if you were pleased with it before your friend found the free version, then it was worth what you paid.  Having found the free version doesn't change that.  It just makes you feel rotten for not having found the free one first.  The bottom line here is that you have no standing to make a complaint about infringement, since you didn't write the script yourself.  Only the creator may file a DMCA complaint.  All you can do is grumble and move on.

Edited by Rolig Loon
Typos. What else?
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

Thanks for the comments.

I think what's upsetting is that the vendor took the item off right away. To me that's almost an admission of guilt. Why so quick to remove something successful just because someone complains they found it for free then? The vendor when confronted did not argue whatsoever about it being their intellectual property. Instead she said she would look into it. If something was ripped off in such a way, wouldn't a legit creator be upset that someone is giving their hard work away for free?

While I might be simply grasping at straws here, it still feels a bit odd to me. I don't really care about the money as much as I do the principle of it.

It would have been nice to leave a review :)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
15 minutes ago, RoxyD0ll said:

It would have been nice to leave a review

Yeah, I agree.  Still, in the end you did get the satisfaction of seeing it removed from sale so that nobody else has your experience.

Being charitable, I usually assume that issues like this are the result of ignorance or stupidity rather than malice.  Even if that's not true, it gives the other person a chance to back out gracefully.  It looks like that's what happened here.  Move along.  There's not much else to see here.  ;)

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
39 minutes ago, RoxyD0ll said:

I think what's upsetting is that the vendor took the item off right away. To me that's almost an admission of guilt. Why so quick to remove something successful just because someone complains they found it for free then? The vendor when confronted did not argue whatsoever about it being their intellectual property. Instead she said she would look into it. If something was ripped off in such a way, wouldn't a legit creator be upset that someone is giving their hard work away for free?

Again, it depends.  Some items that are given out as Full Perm specifically state the conditions under which it could be resold and some don't.  Maybe the merchant had even "paid" for the Full Perm version with rights to resell and was thus shocked herself that you found it for free. 

If I was the merchant, I also would have immediately pulled the item while I looked in to it.  I would have done so because if there really is an 'identical' one out there that is legitimately free, then I shouldn't necessarily be selling it, even if I did pay someone else for said rights.

So, as Rolig said, don't necessarily assume the worst.

Edited by LittleMe Jewell
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
7 hours ago, RoxyD0ll said:

It would have been nice to leave a review :)

no it wouldn't.

If you would put the same in it as you do here your review would be flagged and removed in no time. Reviews need to rate a product and not the experience you found out later.  If the product works as expected bad reviews or comments on price are irrelevant.

It's even allowed to sell a solid plywood prim for 10k ... as long the description fits the product. It;s the buyer who needs to do the investigation before he buys.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

If i worked very hard to create a product that I thought filled a need in SL, and then put it out for sale for 2000L, thinking I was meeting a need in SL, then discovered that my product didn't fill an existing need, because someone else was offering another product that did the same thing, for free. I would probably pull my product to, I wouldn't want to take peoples money for an item they can get elsewhere for free, So no, I do not think that the creator pulling the product is an admission of guilt at all.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
On 7/12/2017 at 2:38 PM, RoxyD0ll said:

I think what's upsetting is that the vendor took the item off right away. To me that's almost an admission of guilt. Why so quick to remove something successful just because someone complains they found it for free then? The vendor when confronted did not argue whatsoever about it being their intellectual property. Instead she said she would look into it. If something was ripped off in such a way, wouldn't a legit creator be upset that someone is giving their hard work away for free?

While I might be simply grasping at straws here, it still feels a bit odd to me. I don't really care about the money as much as I do the principle of it.

 

You are projecting your ideas and feelings on the merchant. That may not work well or be predictive of what is going on. While reasonable to you, it may not be indicative of reality.

Both merchants may have embellished an open source tool. The merchant realizing they were outclassed, removed it. Speculation. The point is there are numerous possibilities. 

Our thinking has to guide us. We aren't always right, but it is often the best we can do. So, being guarded with this merchant in any future dealing is reasonable. Possibly slandering them to others based on our personal opinion literally steps across society's legal and moral bounds. At that point, we are dealing with your morality and character.

Legal systems require evidence and a legal process before we make statements of guilt. The reason is simple. Humans get emotional and they make mistakes and do crazy things based on what they mistakenly believe. Consider the Salem witch trials. With a 50lb rock tied to your foot, we toss you in the water. If you float to the top you are a witch. If not, well its good to know you went to heaven... right. We use impartial people and present them evidence allowing them to decide on the merit of evidence. Because humans are so mistake prone and emotional. 

Your choice is what type of person you want to be. What you say about them, declares your nature. How you treat them based on your experience also declares your nature. How you do business with them in the futures declares your wisdom...

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are about to reply to a thread that has been inactive for 2446 days.

Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...