Isn't it time for LL to follow their own ToS?

[Drake1 Nightfire]

So, the ToS states:

11.1 The Service is a United States-based service.

Linden Lab controls and operates the Service from its offices in the United States. Linden Lab makes no representation that any aspect of the Service is appropriate or available for use outside of the United States. Those who access the Service from other locations are doing so on their own initiative and are responsible for compliance with applicable local laws regarding your online conduct and acceptable content, if and to the extent local laws apply. 

And

11.5 The applicable law and venue is in San Francisco, California.

You agree that this Agreement and the relationship between you and Linden Lab shall be governed by the laws of the State of California without regard to conflict of law principles or the United Nations Convention on the International Sale of Goods. Further, you and Linden Lab agree to submit to the exclusive personal jurisdiction and venue of the courts located in the City and County of San Francisco, California, except as provided in Section 10 regarding arbitration.

Which says to me and my uncle who is a lawyer, that California law is the primary law governing what we can and cant do in SL. That being the case. California law states that women can be topless anywhere a man can be. If a man, or in this case a male avatar, can be topless in a G rated sim, than a woman can be as well. Isn't it about time SL enters the new millennium?

Thoughts?

[Chase01]

[Love Zhaoying]

Remembering the "Beverly Hillbillies" episode where the Clampett's thought that "topless" mean that men don't wear hats.

[Chaser Zaks]

I think you are confusing "LL has to follow California laws and enforce them" and "LL can do what they want, let users do what they want, and enforce their own rules, as long as it is within California laws"

Simply put: LL can make it so that toplessness for women is G rated, but they don't have to, but they cannot make pants-lessness rated G(and allow users under the age of 18).

Additionally, since Second Life reaches other states within the United States, if they allowed toplessness they would probably have to:
A) Block all users from states which do not allow toplessness
B) Block all users aged 16 and 17(since they are allowed on the main grid)

This being said, please follow the maturity ratings provided by Linden Lab. It's their grid and their rating, unless they change it you are required to follow the the rating guidelines and community standard.

 

Edited May 31, 2017 by Chaser Zaks
Removed pointless newlines

[Ceka Cianci]

 I'm topless right now and just typed all this stuff in the forums.. Viva la revolución !! \o/  ETA:<---And that stuff there to plus this<------ and that Arrow <------

Omg I'm stuck in an endless spree of crime! <-----That too

I surrender.\o/

Edited May 31, 2017 by Ceka Cianci

[Atchy Addams]

..Pause the game.

Are you referring to the Temple of Satan? If so, you've stated Linden's part in whatever you're attempting to prove. Now, assuming you know anything about the ToS..?  What makes a few bureaucratic bylaws stated by Linden have anything to do with them.. Not to mention, politically they've been the most active "religious" community as of late to make noise for real change, and blind eyes to open. And, we have our own ToS here in SL if you need to any questions answered. [;

[LittleMe Jewell]

SL would be in serious trouble if they "must" follow all San Francisco & California laws:

"Giving or receiving oral sex is prohibited"   

"Persons classified as "ugly" may not walk down any street." - not sure who decides this, but we could vote  

“No dog shall be in a public place without its master on a leash.”  

Plus a few other crazy ones that we could have fun violating.

 

[Atchy Addams]

***** someone must be looking for you then.

[Bree Giffen]

Drake, you just want to see b**bs on G rated land. How did you type that post with just one hand? 

You should take LL to court over this!

 

[Qie Niangao]

Uh-oh. Zindra isn't the requisite distance from a school or place of worship. Gonna be the end of all our pixel sekksies for sure now.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

4 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

 I'm topless right now and just typed all this stuff in the forums.. Viva la revolución !! \o/  ETA:<---And that stuff there to plus this<------ and that Arrow <------

Omg I'm stuck in an endless spree of crime! <-----That too

I surrender.\o/

Pics or it didn't happen 

[Drake1 Nightfire]

2 hours ago, Bree Giffen said:

Drake, you just want to see b**bs on G rated land. How did you type that post with just one hand? 

You should take LL to court over this!

 

Actually, i was serious. This thread was inspired by Ucello Poultrys latest blog post https://poultryreport.wordpress.com/2017/05/30/topless-tuesday-police/#comments 

Also, who invited the stick in the mud? @Chaser Zaks  You don't need to post that we should follow the rules, we know that. 

[Pussycat Catnap]

These are all cartoons on a screen.

There are no women in SL.

There are no men in SL either.

There are just cartoons in a video game.

Real world laws about nudity really don't directly apply. FCC rules about what you can broadcast also don't really apply because this isn't a broadcast. The ESRB might apply, but it is a voluntary organization.

Technically LLs has no rules under the law over what it can allow for any given rating. It is all a case of what they decided would be fitting for their service.

 

Edited May 31, 2017 by Pussycat Catnap

[HarrisonMcKenzie]

All I am going to say is that the western world needs to get over it's oppressively Christian roots and re-evaluate its views on nudity. It's time that we stop sexualizing nudity and encouraging body-shaming.

[LittleMe Jewell]

3 minutes ago, HarrisonMcKenzie said:

All I am going to say is that the western world needs to get over it's oppressively Christian roots and re-evaluate its views on nudity. It's time that we stop sexualizing nudity and encouraging body-shaming.

While you are correct, it is not just the 'western world' that has issues with nudity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clothing_laws_by_country

[Pussycat Catnap]

12 minutes ago, HarrisonMcKenzie said:

All I am going to say is that the western world needs to get over it's oppressively Christian roots and re-evaluate its views on nudity. It's time that we stop sexualizing nudity and encouraging body-shaming.

Yeah basically... unless you talk to my low-mountain Amazon cousins over in Brazil, or some groups in the hotter parts of Africa - this anti-nudity this is pretty global. Polynesians and a few others used to be cool with nudity. But the Anglos and others smacked that idea out of them violently a century ago.

And as much as people love to cart out feudal Japanese bath houses - that was then and not exactly now where the country is so super shy it is dying off from lack of people knowing how to have sex anymore...

 

 

[Amanda Crisp]

9 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

“No dog shall be in a public place without its master on a leash.”  

 

I refuse to let my dog leash me!

[Paul Hexem]

You're implying that LL follows laws.

[HarrisonMcKenzie]

On 6/1/2017 at 8:07 AM, Pussycat Catnap said:

Yeah basically... unless you talk to my low-mountain Amazon cousins over in Brazil, or some groups in the hotter parts of Africa - this anti-nudity this is pretty global. Polynesians and a few others used to be cool with nudity. But the Anglos and others smacked that idea out of them violently a century ago.

And as much as people love to cart out feudal Japanese bath houses - that was then and not exactly now where the country is so super shy it is dying off from lack of people knowing how to have sex anymore...

I live in Japan. What you think is happening is completely incorrect. Japan's population is decreasing because it is an industrialized nation (which pretty always means a lower birth rate), and because there is a family-destroying lack of work-life balance. Hot springs and bath houses are very real, very present, and very contemporary. They are hardly feudal or a thing from the past. And Japan's legendary shyness has far more to do with people being afraid of making mistakes and about nothing to do with people looking at their wieners.

Europe as a whole also has far healthier attitudes towards nudity. Yes, clothing is a pretty international phenomena, but the kind of sex and body shaming that's taking place is pretty unique to countries like the US and Canada, where nudity automatically equals sex, and your god tells you that that is wrong.

[mikka Luik]

Broadly agree with HarrisonMcKenzie with a few asides, we Euros are not an homoginised blob so your kilometrage may vary depending on exact locale, I never found people in Japan shy as rather polite (actually fun in an anarchic and glad to see some of the customs I enjoyed still going) and as far as Canada goes - not so much prudish as practical. Nice outer layers always usefull when it it is minus 30 degrees Celsius with a distinct change during summer where it swung the other way- at least in the parts I lived in.

[LittleMe Jewell]

4 hours ago, HarrisonMcKenzie said:

but the kind of sex and body shaming that's taking place is pretty unique to countries like the US and Canada, where nudity automatically equals sex, and your god tells you that that is wrong.

And places where the Muslim religion is very prominent - though I don't know enough about their religion to know if men could walk around naked or not.

[Alwin Alcott]

27 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

And places where the Muslim religion is very prominent - though I don't know enough about their religion to know if men could walk around naked or not.

as any abrahamic religion, the body needs to be covered except when ehm.."meeting" your partner.

[Pamela Galli]

5 hours ago, HarrisonMcKenzie said:

Europe as a whole also has far healthier attitudes towards nudity. Yes, clothing is a pretty international phenomena, but the kind of sex and body shaming that's taking place is pretty unique to countries like the US and Canada, where nudity automatically equals sex, and your god tells you that that is wrong.

Or that most of us don't want to look at most naked bodies when we go grocery shopping. Especially in the US. Trust me if I had to do that I would not automatically equate nudity with sex. 

Edited June 2, 2017 by Pamela Galli

[Ceka Cianci]

In Tennessee nudity can mean,hey this skinny dippin sure is fun..

Sure is,Now hold my beer.. I'm bout ta dew some cliff divin off that cliff up thar,skinny dippin STYLE!! \o/

[Aislin Ceawlin]

On 5/31/2017 at 10:33 AM, LittleMe Jewell said:

No dog shall be in a public place without its master on a leash.”  

Hold on, WHO has to be wearing the leash? lol