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chatsitediva

Definitions for my Understanding

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Ok. So...I've been here a while but I've never quite gotten the terminology.

Can someone tell me what the skin is and does, the head, shape, body, etc?

Also...what is a bento head?

Thanks .... ;)

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System avatar - the one we're all born with when we first rez into SL.

Skin - texture that goes on the system avatar to give it colour and detail.

Shape - data for the shape of the system avatar.

Head - part of the system avatar defined by shape and detailed by skin.

Body - part of the system avatar defined by shape and detailed by skin.

The code requires four things to be worn - skin, shape, hairbase and eyes (all system). You can't take one off, only replace it with another one.

System is often referred to as 'classic' now.

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Mesh body - an object (like a very very fancy prim) worn over the system avatar as a visual substitute for it.

Applier skin - texture that goes on the mesh body to give it colour and detail.

Shape - data which can influence the shape of certain mesh bodies.

Mesh head - an object worn over the system avatar as a visual substitute for the head.

Bento head - mesh head which uses the new Bento skeleton system. It has extra 'bones' which let it do more stuff, like run animations and be more responsive to shaping. There are Bento hands as well.

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IMO, it helps to understand that there are essentially two different schemes. The classic/system one is part of every avatar, though it can be made invisible (with a transparent texture as a 'skin'). Some residents choose to wear mesh over all or part of their system avatars.

(Sorry if that's too basic. It's incomplete, but a start. It's all a bit confusing.)

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18 minutes ago, chatsitediva said:

Ok. So...I've been here a while but I've never quite gotten the terminology.

Can someone tell me what the skin is and does, the head, shape, body, etc?

Also...what is a bento head?

Thanks .... ;)

the terms are the same as it is in RL

skin is top layer of your body, shape gives form to your body.. body is the total what you see in the mirrow (without clothes :) )

A body and head can be standard, or mesh.

 

bento is the bone structure of your sl body, but perhaps easier to understand we say it are your joints where the bodyparts/clothes and animations, can move IF the creator did make his creation based on this system, if he didn't you have the original points to move your bodyparts, Bento has a lot more than the original.

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Even if you go all mesh, you can not take off the four things Bitsy mentioned. You use alpha layers to render them invisible, but they are still there.

Two of these parts is still useful for a mesh avatar. When you go into "Edit appearance" and edit your shape, a mesh shape will respond to the changes you make. When you edit the heads and parts of it, a Bento head will respond to this.

Same with the system hair, but no one calls it that anymore. It is called "Brow shape" by most. This is because the control for the eyebrows is found here when you edit it. You raise/lower the brows, make them pointy, arched, and so on. You will see these changes on a Bento head too.

If a mesh head is not labeled "Bento" then it does not respond to changes you try to make. Well, they can respond to simple things as making then smaller/larger.

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You don't need to go anywhere for "these things". You already have a set of components for your system body, and a set of Maitreya Lara mesh body parts which you can wear as well. For stuff like hair and clothes, the SL Marketplace has lots of good stuff at all prices from free to ridiculous. If you need any more help, let us know the details.

Edited by angeoco

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8 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

the terms are the same as it is in RL

In real life a bento head is someone who eats a lot of bento box meals. :)

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16 minutes ago, Rhonda Huntress said:

In real life a bento head is someone who eats a lot of bento box meals. :)

I had a bento box meal in Tokyo many years ago. It was beautiful, a little scene with trees and a tiny house, all edible, on a blanket of snow (rice) in a pretty black lacquered box. I asked my hosts what everything was. They were stumped. I pointed to a tree and asked if it was made from plant or animal. They didn't know. Then I pointed to the house. They didn't know. The taste was fairly bland, but the marvel of that little scene more than made up for it.

A week later I attended a Kabuki theater. Everybody in the audience had a white cardboard bento box on their lap. About halfway into the performance (which lasted nearly five hours), I understood why.

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On ‎5‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 4:23 AM, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

System avatar - the one we're all born with when we first rez into SL.

Skin - texture that goes on the system avatar to give it colour and detail.

Shape - data for the shape of the system avatar.

Head - part of the system avatar defined by shape and detailed by skin.

Body - part of the system avatar defined by shape and detailed by skin.

The code requires four things to be worn - skin, shape, hairbase and eyes (all system). You can't take one off, only replace it with another one.

System is often referred to as 'classic' now.

---------

Mesh body - an object (like a very very fancy prim) worn over the system avatar as a visual substitute for it.

Applier skin - texture that goes on the mesh body to give it colour and detail.

Shape - data which can influence the shape of certain mesh bodies.

Mesh head - an object worn over the system avatar as a visual substitute for the head.

Bento head - mesh head which uses the new Bento skeleton system. It has extra 'bones' which let it do more stuff, like run animations and be more responsive to shaping. There are Bento hands as well.

--------

IMO, it helps to understand that there are essentially two different schemes. The classic/system one is part of every avatar, though it can be made invisible (with a transparent texture as a 'skin'). Some residents choose to wear mesh over all or part of their system avatars.

(Sorry if that's too basic. It's incomplete, but a start. It's all a bit confusing.)

So which of those influence the look of the face.  As I understand it, when dealing with a mesh body (assuming no Bento head), you use you classic avatar over which you ear a shape, then a skin, then you add the mesh alpha and then the mesh body, hands and feet.  Then you modify the shape.  Then use the appliers.  However, is it the shape or the skin that provides the initial features for the face.  My thought is that it would be the skin, which also provides the skin tone.  But is that correct?  Thnaks     

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52 minutes ago, JenniferAnneSL said:

So which of those influence the look of the face.    

Its just as in real life. The skin and the shape are both responsible for how your avatars face looks like. Changeing one of it will change how your face looks like.

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Skin does affect a lot.  It not only has the skin tone but will have drawn on shading as well.  When dealing with flat projected images -- and SL avatars are projected on a flat computer screen -- everything you see as 3D is just tricks of light and shadow.  Skins can come pre-equipped with lights and shadow to mimic the shape of a face.

However, the shape will also influence the look of the face.  It does not matter if the skin is shaded to have a small, button nose if it does not match the shape. The rendering engine will see the 3D shape and apply shading and highlighting on it's on.

If you have a Bento head, then your shape will be modifying the attached head.  Not only doe all the heads have their own basic model, they are also rigged differently and will respond to shape sliders uniquely.  If you want large round eyes you will need to start with a mesh head that has large round eyes.  You will not be able to modify many (or any?) if they were not designed to have round eyes.

53 minutes ago, JenniferAnneSL said:

So which of those influence the look of the face.

All of these. Skin, shape and mesh.  If one is out of sync the whole thing looks off.

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How about visual aide?

Rather then debate about all things are really mesh, let's use a new word.  Wireframe.  You can toggle this view on and off in your viewer if you want.

wireframe_head_vector_stock_by_otakkusut.jpg

For anything to be drawn in a 3D world, it needs a wireframe and a texture to apply on all the triangles of that frame. Your shape tells the program how to push and pull the wireframe around.  When drawn, the program will apply lights and shadows based on mathematics and the final placement of the wireframe.  The end result is the texture of the triangle with the lighting adjustments.

Bottom line, there are 4 things that will have immediate and profound effects to the look of yur face.

  • The wireframe -- system body, mesh, bento mesh, they are all wireframes
  • The shape -- how the wireframe is distorted
  • Texture -- your skin appliers that are drawn on each triangle
  • Rendered light and shadow -- your graphic settings, Windlight settings, face lights or any other light source or effects.

Put it all together and you have a fashionista starter set.

Edited by Rhonda Huntress
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On 5/13/2017 at 1:38 PM, Rhonda Huntress said:

In real life a bento head is someone who eats a lot of bento box meals. :)

Makes you wonder why LL named "Bento" that. Perhaps because they like Japanese food and terms?

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1 hour ago, JenniferAnneSL said:

So which of those influence the look of the face.  As I understand it, when dealing with a mesh body (assuming no Bento head), you use you classic avatar over which you ear a shape, then a skin, then you add the mesh alpha and then the mesh body, hands and feet.  Then you modify the shape.  Then use the appliers.  However, is it the shape or the skin that provides the initial features for the face.  My thought is that it would be the skin, which also provides the skin tone.  But is that correct?  Thnaks     

If you are using the system/classic avatar's head, then it's the shape and skin (2nd and 3rd in my list) which will influence the look of the face.

EVERYTHING else you've mentioned - mesh body, hands, feet, alpha and appliers - don't influence the system avatar face. Ignore those for now.

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The shape and skin BOTH influence the features for the face. Think of the shape like a ball of clay that you're squishing around to get a nose that you like, and so on. Think of the skin like the paint you put over the clay to bring out details - colour on the lips, some shade under the nose, a bit to define the eyes.... (or a lot, like makeup). And the basic skin tone too.

The difference is that (unless you make your own), the paint of any particular skin doesn't change. It's sort of like a cloth mask that drapes over the clay armature of the shape. So the detail on the cloth can sometimes not match up all that well with particular face shape characteristics. Maybe your av shape has full cheeks and the skin creator designed something for a narrower face with prominent cheek bones. That sort of thing. So it's all about getting the two - shape and skin - to work with each other. Since you can't tweak a skin, you can only change to another one or tweak the shape.

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Back to the skin appliers. Re your question above - the skin will be the skin tone + make-up, shading, etc for all visible bits of the system/classic avatar. Any mesh add-on bits will need a separate appliers to give them their skin tone, shading, etc. Matching skin tones between face and mesh bodies (and feet and hands) tends to be tricky. Those from the same store and in the same tone will be designed to work together.

I'm not the best one to give detailed advice on how to shop for that; the whole mesh body thing proved to be more complication than I'm interested in just now. :) There has been a lot of conversation about it in the forums and inworld groups, so try an archive search in the forums.

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Bottom line - if you want to use a system/classic head and a mesh body, you need a 'skin' for each. The skin for the mesh body parts is called an applier. You might have to buy each separately, or some creators might package them together. I know I've seen the first.

One shape will influence both the system/classic head and the shape of a fitmesh body. Your avatar comes with one from the beginning. You can modify that one or replace it.

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Thanks to all for your help.  I realize that absent an alpha for the head, the head is stand alone for the mesh body other than it takes on the features of the shape and the skin.  As you mentioned it is tricky to try to match the skin tone of the mesh body and ands and feet with that of the head, plus thee is that neck thing.  I have the problem of the shape and the skin when viewed at the store being different than when put on the classic avatar.   I am efforting it, and somehow I will get it done. But at the end of the day, maybe I should just bite the bullet sooner and get a catwa head.  I am doing it this way in part to better understand how this whole thing works, because there is still that clothes thing...Not to mention all that other stuff like accessories, eyes, jewelry etc etc etc.  Thanks again!!!  

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7 minutes ago, JenniferAnneSL said:

I have the problem of the shape and the skin when viewed at the store being different than when put on the classic avatar.  

If at all possible, get a demo on the skin and the you can check it out on the avatar.

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16 minutes ago, JenniferAnneSL said:

As you mentioned it is tricky to try to match the skin tone of the mesh body and ands and feet with that of the head, plus thee is that neck thing

System and prims have always had this problem.  Before mesh, we would wear system clothes and prim parts.  A blouse would be a shirt layer with puffy prim shoulders for example.  Sine the engine renders avatars and prims a little differently the colors did not match under anything but the best lighting.  If you go back far enough to before Windlight, it was even more pronounced. Clothing textures put on the prim parts were shaded 10% gray as a rule.

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