Exporting SL Content to other platforms

[Horknis Steamer]

Hello Folks.

 

Its may just an old theme and may already came up in here to.

I wonder if i am allwed to Copybot something (wich i did buy before and have "just" Copy and mod permission) to export out of SL, import it into blender, work some mesh around and Import the created mesh in SL to sell or gift it away? is this still legal or have I to find others way to get my inspiration on an object unleashed?

[LittleMe Jewell]

Legal?  Not sure, but highly unethical.  That would not be okay unless you have FULL permissions on the item.  Otherwise, you are stealing someone's work to make a basis for yours.   

[Pamela Galli]

31 minutes ago, Horknis Steamer said:

Hello Folks.

 

Its may just an old theme and may already came up in here to.

I wonder if i am allwed to Copybot something (wich i did buy before and have "just" Copy and mod permission) to export out of SL, import it into blender, work some mesh around and Import the created mesh in SL to sell or gift it away? is this still legal or have I to find others way to get my inspiration on an object unleashed?

Of course it is not legal. 

[Ceka Cianci]

34 minutes ago, Horknis Steamer said:

Hello Folks.

 

Its may just an old theme and may already came up in here to.

I wonder if i am allwed to Copybot something (wich i did buy before and have "just" Copy and mod permission) to export out of SL, import it into blender, work some mesh around and Import the created mesh in SL to sell or gift it away? is this still legal or have I to find others way to get my inspiration on an object unleashed?

I don't believe any copybot viewers are allowed to be used in second life..

 

[Skell Dagger]

"I wonder if I'm allowed to walk into a store tomorrow and take as many t-shirts as I want without paying for them (after all, I did buy one yesterday) to take home, run through my sewing machine, add some applique details, and then sell or give them away?"

That's a RL equivalent of what you're asking. Just because it's virtual that doesn't mean you're not asking to do something the creator - who did NOT give transfer permissions on the item - didn't want you to do. If they were happy for people to make copies to sell or give away, they would have made the item full-permission. Even then, they might still have a ToU that states you can't export their content to other platforms, even if you alter it and then claim it's a derivative work.

[Talligurl]

13 minutes ago, Skell Dagger said:

"I wonder if I'm allowed to walk into a store tomorrow and take as many t-shirts as I want without paying for them (after all, I did buy one yesterday) to take home, run through my sewing machine, add some applique details, and then sell or give them away?"

That's a RL equivalent of what you're asking.

No, No it isn't, It is equivalent of buying a painting at an art show, taking it home, making posters from the image, and selling them online. Still illegal, still unethical, but not equivalent of taking merchandise (which a merchant paid for) out of a store. Along the same lines would be downloading pirated music, and then playing it at a club or party in SL. Of course that one might get to close to stepping on toes.

[Skell Dagger]

15 minutes ago, Talligurl said:

It is equivalent of buying a painting at an art show, taking it home, making posters from the image, and selling them online.

I see your point, but that same point implies there was only one painting and the artist would have only made that single sale from it, as opposed to a Second Life creator who would make multiple future sales from an item. In the first case, the artist has made all the money they were going to get from the original sale, and the subsequent theft is that of their intellectual property. In the second case, the theft is not only of IP but also of money, in the form of those potential future sales. That's why my analogy was that - having purchased one t-shirt before - the OP was asking if it was okay to 'take' as many as wanted (eg: make copies) then alter them (the OP said "work some mesh around") before selling them or giving them away.

Perhaps another analogy would be that - having purchased an e-book - the OP wanted to add another chapter to the author's original work and then upload it for anyone to download, or to sell it as their own work.

[Chase01]

The use of a copybot viewer is against the TOS—on that basis, regardless of its use, (malicious or not, for personal or commercial) your account can be banned. If you don't want to create the source object then you're going to have to purchase full perm goods. I'd also advise that you read the usage guidelines provided by that creator and follow them accordingly.

If you can provide some more information maybe we can offer some better suggestions that will be more specific to what you're trying to accomplish.

[HarrisonMcKenzie]

The answer is no, because you are stealing. You own exclusive rights to nothing in SL unless you created it yourself. IT doesn't matter if you paid money for it. It doesn't matter it it's full permission. Unless you are the creator, you don't own it and thus using a copybot viewer to illegally download it is theft of intellectual property.

[Phil Deakins]

15 hours ago, Horknis Steamer said:

I wonder if i am allwed to Copybot something (wich i did buy before and have "just" Copy and mod permission) to export out of SL, import it into blender, work some mesh around and Import the created mesh in SL to sell or gift it away? is this still legal or have I to find others way to get my inspiration on an object unleashed?

Others have answered your main question very well. I'm just going to comment on your last question (that I have bolded).

Yes, you have to find other ways. For instance, you may have seen a really good chair that inspired you. What you can do is go into Blender and "work some mesh around" to make a similar one. If you are capable of working some mesh around, then you should be able to do that. What you can't do legally, as other have explained, is copybot the original chair, get it into Blender, heighten the back or something like that, and upload it as your own. But, if you are capable of "working some mesh around", then you should be able to make a similar item from scratch, using the original as your inspiration - and that would be a very good thing.

No creator creates anything that is truly original. Everyone creates according to what has been seen already. All creations are developments of what has gone before. They are all based on, and inspired by, what has gone before. That's how you should approach it. Be inspired by the work of others. Emulate them, but don't steal their labours, which is what copybotting does. Creating things does take time and effort. Respect it by not even thinking of using other people's time and effort for your own ends.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Phil Deakins

[ChinRey]

2 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

Yes, you have to find other ways. For instance, you may have seen a really good chair that inspired you. What you can do is go into Blender and "work some mesh around" to make a similar one. If you are capable of working some mesh around, then you should be able to do that.

That's very true. Besides, even if for the sake of argument we ignore the legal issue, if you are a reasonably skilled 3D modeller it's nearly always easier to build a model from scratch than to mofidy one made by somebody else.

I have to say I was a bit disappointed when I read this discussion though. When I saw the title I thought it was about exporting SL content to other grids and that's what caught my attention. But oh well, that's a completely different topic.

[Qie Niangao]

Speaking of Intellectual Property... 

One of these is the logo for Sansar, and the other is the logo for one of Canada's two largest telecom companies.

Can you guess which is which?

[Rhonda Huntress]

I recognize the second one as Sansar's logo so the first one must be the telecom logo.  Similar, yes.  Both look to me like modern versions of celtic circles.

 

"There is nothing new under the sun."

 

[Qie Niangao]

1 hour ago, Rhonda Huntress said:

Both look to me like modern versions of celtic circles.

Yeah. Probably I've watched too many old movies to get such innocent associations from a red logo with rotational symmetry.

If there's "nothing new under the sun" in logo design it must be because Paul Rand is dead.

[Rhonda Huntress]

Saw: The Logo

Edited May 9, 2017 by Rhonda Huntress

[Chic Aeon]

20 hours ago, Skell Dagger said:

In the first case, the artist has made all the money they were going to get from the original sale, and the subsequent theft is that of their intellectual property.

Yes. 

 

Since I was a professional artist in RL for many years with lots of one person exhibits AND since I used the painting analogy in another copybot thread recently :D. --  TallGirl is indeed correct. You do NOT buy the copyright to a painting (or any digital material which is what we are talking about) when you buy the item. The original creator CAN sell the RIGHTS to REPRODUCE but they very seldom do.  In my other comment I noted that a full perm template creator COULD do work for hire for a single person and then sell them the rights (all rights) to the item. That happens fairly often in SL. This is called "work for hire" and I did a lot of that in the past keeping NO RIGHTS (except to show the work in my portfolio). 

If someone had purchased full rights to that -- let's say dress dae file (maybe with Maya or Blender active files included) they could then legally put that dress on any platform, not just SL. 

 

Edited May 9, 2017 by Chic Aeon

[Horknis Steamer]

I more meant like i found an Avatar and want to build something for it. like a body i want do dress for but strugeling to have a model to work on so deciding to just buy the body, copy bot it. export it from SL, import the model than in i.e. Blender. Do my mesh work with the help of the model and Upload for selling just what i work out. I mean beside i have to get the Model in a way which seems either black nor white it do not sounds that illigal to me.

[LittleMe Jewell]

Still doesn't get around the fact that copybot viewers are not allowed.

[Rhonda Huntress]

23 minutes ago, Horknis Steamer said:

it do not sounds that illigal to me.

Here's a rule of thumb that will get you through life: if you have to hide it you are doing something wrong.
(A corollary to that is that coverups will kill you -- Just ask Nixon)

So why not just ask Onyx LeShelle if it is OK to copybot Lara?
I think we all know the answer to that.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Rhonda Huntress

[MoiraKathleen]

4 hours ago, Horknis Steamer said:

I more meant like i found an Avatar and want to build something for it. like a body i want do dress for but strugeling to have a model to work on so deciding to just buy the body, copy bot it. export it from SL, import the model than in i.e. Blender. Do my mesh work with the help of the model and Upload for selling just what i work out. I mean beside i have to get the Model in a way which seems either black nor white it do not sounds that illigal to me.

It does sound illegal to me.

I think you need to do what other clothing designers do - see if the maker of the body has a developer's kit, get or apply for that and then make your creations - or use mesh clothing templates that you can purchase which are  full perm, with the appropriate downloadable files provided with the purchase of the template (though these may be constrained by their TOS  for use just in SL, not on other platforms or grids).

Though if any of the mesh body creators see this thread, they may have some reluctance in providing a dev kit for their body. 

Disclaimer: I don't make mesh clothing or any other mesh items.  

[Chic Aeon]

5 hours ago, Horknis Steamer said:

I mean beside i have to get the Model in a way which seems either black nor white it do not sounds that illigal to me.

The CORRECT method would be to apply for a developer kit. Some are easy to get and some very difficult (so I hear; I don't make clothes).  YOU didn't make the mesh body and have no right to be using it for any purpose other than looking good. You did not buy the right to EXPORT the body for ANY reason when you bought the body for personal use inside SL. 

You really should know this. It seems very dumb to ask. So perhaps this was just a frivolous thread all along. 

[Callum Meriman]

15 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Still doesn't get around the fact that copybot viewers are not allowed.

The bots are allowed and in very wide use, tens of thousands of them (I have 2 to handle group membership), and you are quite free to use them to export your own work. The TOS violation (and copyright violation) is exporting other people's work.

http://grimore.org/secondlife/scripted_agents/corrade

The commands are exportdae and exportoar

 

http://grimore.org/secondlife/scripted_agents/corrade/api/progressive/commands/exportdae

http://grimore.org/secondlife/scripted_agents/corrade/api/progressive/commands/exportoar

 

Edit: 99.9% of SL don't have the knowledge to use those though.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Callum Meriman

[Alwin Alcott]

1 hour ago, Callum Meriman said:

The bots are allowed and in very wide use, tens of thousands of them (I have 2 to handle group membership),

what you mention here is not really a viewer used for copybotting.

A copybot viewer is mostly a modified firestorm in god-mode or total rewritten one, inluding IP/ MAC spoofers, VPN  and false id' beakons. Handled by throw away accounts to hit and run.

[Annika Velde]

3 hours ago, Callum Meriman said:

The bots are allowed and in very wide use, tens of thousands of them (I have 2 to handle group membership), and you are quite free to use them to export your own work. The TOS violation (and copyright violation) is exporting other people's work.

I think you may be confusing a copybot viewer with bots. Bots are used for multiple reasons. Getting traffic to a sim, managing groups, greeting guests, etc.

A copybot viewer is used to steal or rip others work from their avatar or store for either personal use or to resell in order to make money.

These are two completely different things.

[HarrisonMcKenzie]

On 5/9/2017 at 11:11 PM, Qie Niangao said:

Speaking of Intellectual Property... 

One of these is the logo for Sansar, and the other is the logo for one of Canada's two largest telecom companies.

Can you guess which is which?

Since no one seemed to get it, the first one is for Rogers Communication.

I'm not sure if this would be an IP violation. The swooping pattern is reversed, there's one less piece, and it's a fairly common shape. Additionally, the logo is being used for a very unrelated product, so that gets around arguments of market confusion. If LL broke into the wireless market though...