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The UnQueering of Second Life


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Kisses Seaside wrote:

Recently was ask to voice, to prove gender, I don't mind voicing, but will not do it again as a statement. If you don't like b/c I won't voice tottaly based on gender then I am sorry.

 

i would want some sort of proof if i were to have a sexual relationship in SL or RL.

of course RL is slightly easier.

but thats not really the point. i dont care if you are gay or straight but i would do in an intimate friendship.

i think i deserve honesty and i have respect for others.

i don't mess with peoples heads, thats for superficial immoral people.

i suppose some will want to be lied to and decieved,  but thats a tiny minority of people and they should not be allowed to drag others down to their level.

 

 

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There has been a fair amount of discussion here, both recently and in the past, about the issue of “gender bending” and, in a more general sense, about identity in SL.  There is nothing new about this

??   There are a lot of people that posted in this thread that I haven't seen in ages.  

tl;dr?  I can't say I blame you! Here’s the executive summary: The anxiety people feel about not being able to ascertain the “real” gender and identity of residents in SL is a good thing, because th

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Ishtara Rothschild wrote:


Dogboat Taurog wrote:

only the immoral, who pretend they are something they are not and use the limited technology of virtual worlds to hide behind a mask, intent on deception.

 

 

Would you really believe me to be a pink-skinned transsexual elf in RL unless I told you otherwise? If I deceive you by role playing an elf in a fantasy world, you must be even more naive than I thought.

 

Interestingly enough, many, many people who run into Carole in-world assume I must be like this in RL: I get compliments on being such a game old bird with such a youthful spirit and capacity to master technology even at such an old age...

I've even several conversations in which - something Dogboat would approve of - I try to set them straight about the operator, but...they refuse point blank to believe me!! Their stance was very much along the lines of me being "obliged" to appear like that - almost as if they were under the impression that I, and only I, was forced (by whom, I cannot begin to imagine) to appear as I am in real-life!

Go figger.... Just goes to show you that you can't keep everyone happy.

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Dogboat Taurog wrote:

"ROFLMAO!! Ohh .. I dunno. Something about watching my youngest son SNEAK out of his room, SNEAK down the stairs SNEAK into the kitchen and SNEAK a glass of chocolate milk .. just kinda makes me think kids DO set out to lie."

even assuming thats your youngest he's hardly a kid at 24.

at 24 he shouldnt be "sneaking Chocolate milk"

what is wrong with you? 

 

Wrong with me? Hmm .. maybe it's that I've been here for their entire lives, and the story I related about him wasn't last week, it was over 18 years ago. Yup, I'm clearly dysfunctional as I not only supported all of my kids in their every adventure, but even managed to stay involved in events that now live in the memory books of the entire family.

But if that's "wrong" .. I like being wrong like that.

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Dogboat Taurog wrote:

 

Kisses Seaside wrote:

Recently was ask to voice, to prove gender, I don't mind voicing, but will not do it again as a statement. If you don't like b/c I won't voice tottaly based on gender then I am sorry.

 

i would want some sort of proof if i were to have a sexual relationship in SL or RL.

of course RL is slightly easier.

 

Erm...I wouldn't be having a sexual relationship (a real one) with anybody from whom I had to ask for proof of their gender. That scenario in real-life truly boggles the mind. Slightly easier in RL??? Slightly??? Who do you hang with in real-life?? As far as my experience goes, by the time you get to that sort of relationship status, gender is blatantly obvious. The only RL scenario which springs to mind where such a question mught be needed is when a person avails himself of "professional providers" (ok...euphemism...but you know who I mean). In which case, in my humble opinion, he who avails himself is hardly in a position to go around lecturing others about their morality...

 

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Dogboat Taurog wrote:

*slaps forehead*

OF COURSE!!!! Why didn't that occur to me??? If he's exactly like his avatar there would be absolutely no harm in showing his real-life photo in here!!!

If I keep slapping myself I'm going to end up scrambling my brain. Mind you, I might just start to "get" Dogboat then.

 

umm your brain is already scrambled.

wheres your photo?

 

 

Dogboat. I am announcing "officially" that I am MORE than willing to show you my real-life photo. Many people have already seen it - one more, one less makes no difference to me. May I suggest we meet in world and we both compare avatars with real-life images? I've already declared openly that mine doesn't resemble me. If your avie is not the spitting image of you in real-life, you're going to have to eat humble pie in the forums. If I'm not a bit better and younger than my avie (like *I* declared), I'll be the one to eat humble-pie.

There. Can't say fairer than that.

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Carole Franizzi wrote:

 

Dogboat Taurog wrote:

 

Kisses Seaside wrote:

Recently was ask to voice, to prove gender, I don't mind voicing, but will not do it again as a statement. If you don't like b/c I won't voice tottaly based on gender then I am sorry.

 

i would want some sort of proof if i were to have a sexual relationship in SL or RL.

of course RL is slightly easier.

 

Erm...I wouldn't be having a sexual relationship (a real one) with anybody from whom I had to ask for proof of their gender. That scenario in real-life truly boggles the mind.
Slightly
easier in RL???
Slightly
??? Who do you hang with in real-life?? As far as my experience goes, by the time you get to that sort of relationship status, gender is blatantly obvious. The only RL scenario which springs to mind where such a question mught be needed is when a person avails himself of "professional providers" (ok...euphemism...but you know who I mean). In which case, in my humble opinion, he who avails himself is hardly in a position to go around lecturing others about their morality...

 

By slightly i meant glaringly obvious.

 

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Carole Franizzi wrote:

 

Dogboat Taurog wrote:

*slaps forehead*

OF COURSE!!!! Why didn't that occur to me??? If he's exactly like his avatar there would be absolutely no harm in showing his real-life photo in here!!!

If I keep slapping myself I'm going to end up scrambling my brain. Mind you, I might just start to "get" Dogboat then.

 

umm your brain is already scrambled.

wheres your photo?

 

 

Dogboat. I am announcing "officially" that I am MORE than willing to show you my real-life photo. Many people have already seen it - one more, one less makes no difference to me. May I suggest we meet in world and we both compare avatars with real-life images? I've already declared openly that mine doesn't resemble me. If your avie is not the spitting image of you in real-life, you're going to have to eat humble pie in the forums. If I'm not a bit better and younger than my avie (like *I* declared), I'll be the one to eat humble-pie.

There. Can't say fairer than that.

 

you can say fairer than that.

just post your pic and stop squirming.

i'm making no deals with you and it may not even be a pic of you.

sorry but this is now loaded.

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Dogboat Taurog wrote:

you have what sounds like a female name.

if you have a female body then in all fairness i would assume you were a female.

as you have outed yourself i accuse you of being morally wrong.

 

 

I also have a rather large prim attachment between my legs. Even when I'm dressed, I wear a sculpted bulge. But I have no doubt that you'll find that morally wrong as well :)

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Dogboat Taurog wrote:

 

Ishtara Rothschild wrote:

This rather one-sided exchange with Dogboat reminds me of the people who chat me up and open the conversation with the question "are you really a transsexual? I mean, in RL too?" Nobody has ever bothered to ask if I really have pink skin, purple eyes or pointy ears. Or a 15 inch bleep, for that matter.

What they're essentially saying is "I can live with the thought that you have dangly bits in both worlds as long as you also have curves in addition. If not, you're not even worth talking to".  Way to respect another human being. I might as well ask them if they really have a sixpack in RL or more of a keg (although, ironically, most of them are fellow gender benders).

isn't that normal for you superficial  types? :smileyvery-happy:

 

 

Let me get that straight... I, who doesn't care about the looks or the gender of the person behind an avatar, am superficial? And you, who apparently only cares about the bits behind a person's legs and has never heard of inner values, are not?

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What is it with RL photos - I had mine in my profile (forums and SL) for ages and people begged me to take it down - apparantly it was putting people off joining SL.

Or at least that's what I was told...

I wonder were they rping or serious...

*ponders

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Mags Indigo wrote:

What is it with RL photos - I had mine in my profile (forums and SL) for ages and people begged me to take it down - apparantly it was putting people off joining SL.

Or at least that's what I was told...

I wonder were they rping or serious...

*ponders

 

I think for a lot of people, a RL Pic "breaks the fantasy" .. meaning robs them of the ability to fantasize your RL appearance any way they want. Roughly akin to knowing what's in each Christmas present without having to unwrap or even rattle them. Even thought they're all presents you really want and will like, it just kinda takes the specialness away.

(And of course, it also means you can't get that feeling of accomplishment by convincing someone to share their RL picture .. which is a feat of no small value with some folks. *wink*)

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Darrius Gothly wrote:

I think for a lot of people, a RL Pic "breaks the fantasy" .. meaning robs them of the ability to fantasize your RL appearance any way they want. Roughly akin to knowing what's in each Christmas present without having to unwrap or even rattle them. Even thought they're all presents you really want and will like, it just kinda takes the specialness away.

(And of course, it also means you can't get that feeling of accomplishment by convincing someone to share their RL picture .. which is a feat of no small value with some folks. *wink*)

Yes I completely 'get' the RL pics ruin the fantasy thing. I however do not do any of that 'romancing' stuff so people would really want to fantasise hard - bless them - the pic was meant to discourage that. Seeing as how I'm still single I guess that worked :smileywink:

 

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Dogboat Taurog wrote:

you havent got it straight at all.

i suggest you are extremely confused with the concepts of morality and basic values.

but maybe you would tell someone straight away if a "romantic" meeting were a possibility so i could be wrong.

 

You still don't seem to realize that morality and values change over time, differ from culture to culture, and are a very diverse and personal matter in the modern, multicultural Western World (and even more so in a global community such as Second Life).

There was a time when people like me were dragged out of the city and stoned to death at the gates. People thought of this barbaric and appalling behaviour as moral. Murdering people in cold blood for having the wrong kind of sexual orientation or fashion sense was very much in line with their values. These morals and values, which would be unthinkable in this day and age, are still taught by the supposedly holy book that you've cherry-picked your golden rule from. You can bet your homophobic behind that I'm at odds with this kind of "morality" that is apparent in many of your posts.

 

Regarding the possibility of a romantic meeting, as you put it: Of course that is out of the question. This is Second Life and not an online dating service. If you (ab)use SL as a matchmaking platform and are hell-bent on meeting the love of your life in a computer game, it is up to you to make that very clear, because most people here are only interested in online relationships. Why don't you add something to your profile, such as "I'm looking for the future mother of my children"? That'll keep the immersionists off your back.

Btw, if you search for an RL partner in SL instead of the real world, you can't tell me that you don't have some shortcomings to hide. Otherwise you would have no problem finding a partner in RL. You've really picked the wrong platform though. Short of World of Warcraft, SL might be the worst possible place to look for an RL romance. But instead of admitting that to yourself and moving on, you insist that everyone play along with your world and your imagination (and that everyone who disturbs you kindly leave this platform, if I remember correctly). That has nothing whatsoever to do with morality. It's just you being a d*ck.

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Dogboat Taurog wrote:

 

Ishtara Rothschild wrote:


Dogboat Taurog wrote:

 

i dont decieve.

 

I'll let Carole be the judge of that when you show her your RL photo
;)

it's never going to happen so you are going to be waiting a long time.

 

So you'll continue to deceive people, according to your own definition of deception? Be my guest :)

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Ishtara Rothschild wrote:


Dogboat Taurog wrote:

you havent got it straight at all.

i suggest you are extremely confused with the concepts of morality and basic values.

but maybe you would tell someone straight away if a "romantic" meeting were a possibility so i could be wrong.

 

You still don't seem to realize that morality and values change over time, differ from culture to culture, and are a very diverse and personal matter in the modern, multicultural Western World (and even more so in a global community such as Second Life).

There was a time when people like me were dragged out of the city and stoned to death at the gates. People thought of this barbaric and appalling behaviour as moral. Murdering people in cold blood for having the wrong kind of sexual orientation or fashion sense was very much in line with their values. These morals and values, which would be unthinkable in this day and age, are still taught by the supposedly holy book that you've cherry-picked your golden rule from. You can bet your homophobic behind that I'm at odds with this kind of "morality" that is apparent in many of your posts.

 

Regarding the possibility of a romantic meeting, as you put it: Of course that is out of the question. This is Second Life and not an online dating service. If you (ab)use SL as a matchmaking platform and are hell-bent on meeting the love of your life in a computer game, it is up to you to make that very clear, because most people here are only interested in online relationships. Why don't you add something to your profile, such as "I'm looking for the future mother of my children"? That'll keep the immersionists off your back.

Btw, if you search for an RL partner in SL instead of the real world, you can't tell me that you don't have some shortcomings to hide. Otherwise you would have no problem finding a partner in RL. You've really picked the wrong platform though. Short of World of Warcraft, SL might be the worst possible place to look for an RL romance. But instead of admitting that to yourself and moving on, you insist that everyone play along with your world and your imagination (and that everyone who disturbs you kindly leave this platform, if I remember correctly). That has nothing whatsoever to do with morality. It's just you being a d*ck.

 

i dont have a problem finding a partner in RL, its just that i want greater choice and i can reach a lot more people in SL incuding different countries. and i have the means to move anywhere if i find the right person.

i never asked anyone to leave this platform, you dont remember at all correctly.

i'm not hellbent on meeting a partner and im not homophobic.

and i dont think you placing an asterisk in an obscene word makes you look at all intelligent.

if you live in the gutter  i suppose you cant get any lower.

 

 

 

 

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Dogboat Taurog wrote:

who would lie about their race or religion?

serious problem if they do.

so why lie about your gender if you are going to get involved in a "romantic" relationship with someone?

whats to hide?

"Who would lie about their race"? Aside from the fact that the concept of "race" is problematic and nonsensical to begin with since human beings are not domesticated animals, I find the idea of "lying" about one's skin color extremely insulting. Lying implies that they have something to hide, a "racial" trait that is somehow worse than their SL appearance. I'm quite amazed that this kind of thinking still exists.

PS: One reason that I chose an unnatural skin, eye and hair color is that I wanted to mess with people's perception of "race". I guess I've also "lied" about my religion when I founded the church of Kika'lekki in Star Wars Galaxies, wrote two chapters of the Twi'lek bible, held the sermon of the sandhill on Tatooine, converted some followers, led a holy war against the Tusken and had prisoners tortured by the Twi'lek inquisition.

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