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DorianDiaz

why is submission so popular?

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Gor is one sub-set of the whole BDSM range. One of the things it has going for it is its universal set of rules.  If kinky can be considered "main stream" then I agree that gor is pretty much the center thanks to the standard set of rules.  The sub-groups may have different practices but at the core, they all have a standard set of rules. The "slave" can never have their back to a free person, cannot be behind a free person, must always kneel, know the standard kneeling positions and when it is appropriate for each, etc.  Even Panther girls follow those core practices but in a female dominate way.

Kinky sex has been around much longer than gor. John Norman just wrote it down before the internet could.  However I'm more of a Bettie Page fan.

Anyway, I think Dorian was more interested in why someone would submit in the first place.  Not necessarily why so many do.  But I could be wrong.

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2 hours ago, Rhonda Huntress said:

Gor is one sub-set of the whole BDSM range

According to the author, in some interview he gave, Gor is not part of BDSM and BDSM is not part of Gor.

As I recall he said something pretentious along the lines of "Gor being about all that is beautiful" and BDSM not being beautiful, and therefore having no place in Gor.

Gorean Philosophy is a mishmash of discredited ideas from two of the less factual 19th century philosophers, assembled by a somewhat below par philosophy professor, in accordance with the sp[urious claptrap he used for his original Doctorate Thesis paper.

A paper that was based on the idea that while it was ok for Liberal Arts Professors to openly discuss atheism with each other, the 'lower orders' must never be allowed to do so lest it bring about the end of civilisation as we know it, and that society needs a new culture that is more 'natural', cue the 19th C German Philosophic-Idiocy-Fusion.

I don't have much respect for a Philosophy Professor, who has in interviews, revealed that he can't even spell the name of what he referred to as his "two favorite greek philosophers", nor for a man who has publically claimed that he is the most significant sci-fi/fantasy author of the last 50 years based on selling a few million copies of his books, and consulting on 2 1980's low budget sex-ploitation movies.

But I am glad to know that Gor is officially NOT part of the BDSM Scene, official dictat from it's creator.
 

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1 hour ago, Klytyna said:

But I am glad to know that Gor is officially NOT part of the BDSM Scene, official dictat from it's creator.

Ditto

ETA  Can we get confirmation that 50SO**** isn't either?

Edited by Cindy Evanier
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On 9/6/2017 at 9:09 AM, Rhonda Huntress said:

Gor is one sub-set of the whole BDSM range. One of the things it has going for it is its universal set of rules.  If kinky can be considered "main stream" then I agree that gor is pretty much the center thanks to the standard set of rules.  The sub-groups may have different practices but at the core, they all have a standard set of rules. The "slave" can never have their back to a free person, cannot be behind a free person, must always kneel, know the standard kneeling positions and when it is appropriate for each, etc.  Even Panther girls follow those core practices but in a female dominate way.

Kinky sex has been around much longer than gor. John Norman just wrote it down before the internet could.  However I'm more of a Bettie Page fan.

Anyway, I think Dorian was more interested in why someone would submit in the first place.  Not necessarily why so many do.  But I could be wrong.

Long long time ago, in my first few months of being in SL circa 2007, I wandered into a Gorean sim.  Rules said I had to put on the slave outfit in order to walk around, so, I did.  Mind you I had ZERO knowledge of Gor, it meant nothing to me.

Not much time passed and someone decided I needed to be taken under her wing, as I wasn't behaving properly. She offered to bring me to the hut of some elder female that could teach me the proper manners of my "rank".  I'm inquisitive so, I played along.

Get to this healer/teacher's hut and she passes me a "kneel" pose.  I oblige and it was at that moment, kneeling before her, listing to her total BS that I knew for sure, I'd make a very lousy sub  :D

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On 9/5/2017 at 7:24 PM, Lada Charlton said:

My opinion on this might not be a widely accepted one, but I am pretty confident in it, lol.

The reason we see so many bondage and sexual groups in online communities is because of the particular prevalence of a "community" known as "Gor" which is actually a sci-fi, fictional creation by men in order to create a fantastical world where women are enslaved. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gor

Gor first got going in 1966, but since then it's taken on a completely different direction, including in Second Life. 

More on the sub-cultures here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorean_subculture. In fact, this Wikipedia page about Gorean subcultures and submissive cultures, in general, has an entire section devoted to Second Life. Important to note: 

IMO, this single piece of sci-fi is the reason why so many women are today interested in such practices from the context of online communities. I don't get it, but this trend exists. 

Gor has an outsized presence in Second Life - but outside of SL I suspect 99.9999% of people have never heard of it.

It is basically as if some 12 year old boy's sex fantasy got published, and he got 12 fans, and then they all showed up at the same place one day...

 

I could make a much easier argument for the 'romanticization of slavery' over the past few centuries done to 'whitewash' the Atlantic Slave Trade and to transform in the cultural 'zeitgeist'  "The Confederacy and Klan" into "Lost Cause and Southern Hospitality"... making certain sorts of people who got it into their heads that "maybe it wasn't so bad to be bred and raped your whole life while your brothers were worked to death in the fields"... then wanting a "cleaned up slice of that fantasy"...

- But that's just as 'off base' and miss-targeted, even if it IS the emotional reaction I have to BDSM.

At least in my example... more than a few hundred people were actually exposed to this concept, and it's been in the 'cultureal zeitgeist' longer than 1966-198x...

But again... it's still wrong for this scene.

 

BDSM has been around for pretty long while... and present in some cultures at periods in time where they never had exposure to either of these two "causes".

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Pussycat Catnap

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Gor is Sci-Fi-Roleplay. BDSM is Lifestyle.

Gor m/s relationships are not like bdsm relationships ... bdsm is not Gor ... bdsm is voluntary, with "safe words" - Gor is not ... in bdsm, pain is expected, practiced, delivered intentionally ... in a m/s Gorean relationship, pain is only administered as punishment for not being pleasing or as a training device ... Gorean masters do not intentionally hurt their slaves. To compare bdsm to Gor is not really realistic.

Besides, Gor isn't all about slaves. Slaves, as the books describe, were only around 5% of the population and not 50% or more, as it is in SL-Gor. Gor was about Caste, Culture and Honor, Aliens, Space Ships, Free Men and Free Women and some great medical achievements.

The Gor you see in SL has less to nothing to do with the original story. Online Gor went its own way and became mainstream (same happened to BDSM) and it is now mostly populated by Kinkster and BDSMer who make it very difficult, if not impossible, to actually Roleplay the Genre. Imagine  Star Wars, infiltrated by fun loving Furries instead of Wookies ... that's SL-Gor today.

Also, Gor attracts, usually, a lot more Women than Men. You can see that when you look at the sims. Last i visited was 28 women vs. 4 men. I always wondered why that is so. Maybe some people want to live out their mature fantasies in the virtual and safe enviroment of Second Life?

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13 hours ago, Conall DeCuir said:

Gor is Sci-Fi-Roleplay

It's author claims it is 'science fantasy', most people claim it's a blend of pg-porn for teenage boys with a 'philosophy' derived from two of the more repellent 19th C Germanic philosophers, by a failed philosophy professor.

13 hours ago, Conall DeCuir said:

BDSM is Lifestyle

Only for the tiny minority who can afford to do it 24/7, and don't have to de-kink, removing collars n cuffs and gags, and being let out of the cage to go to work, for example. The whole 'Lifestyle' description is horribly overused.

13 hours ago, Conall DeCuir said:

in bdsm, pain is expected, practiced, delivered intentionally

Sometimes... The S&M part is NOT automatically a feature of everyone in the 'BDSM Lifestyle' only 50 shades of vanilla 10%ers think theres  some standard to which all BDSM people conform.

13 hours ago, Conall DeCuir said:

Gorean masters do not intentionally hurt their slaves

I guess you missed those parts of the books where all the slaves get BRANDED with a hot iron, to permanently mark them as property... Pain is an inherent part of the Gorean Knuckle Dragger 'Lifestyle'

13 hours ago, Conall DeCuir said:

Slaves, as the books describe, were only around 5% of the population and not 50% or more,

Where every bar and tavern has a handful of 'slaves' in coin belts and a strip of translucent silk 4 inches wide... And an RP culture where nobody wants to RP the dung-gatherer 3rd class, they all want to be warriors...  Your estimates of percentages don't mean a damn thing.

13 hours ago, Conall DeCuir said:

Gor was about Caste, Culture and Honor, Aliens, Space Ships, Free Men and Free Women and some great medical achievements

No. It's about a failed professor of philosophy using a story about giant hyper intelligent space ants with orbital laser cannon platforms systematically weeding out anyone with an IQ larger than their sandal size by turning them into glass lined craters that glow in the dark for inventing the horse collar, or a slightly better plow, then noticing that their pet humans are becoming inbred morons and trying to 'fix' this by importing 'wild humans' from Earth, complete with their knowledge of things Goreans are forbidden to know, as a means to push his repellent mix of discredited Germanic philosophy.

13 hours ago, Conall DeCuir said:

Last i visited was 28 women vs. 4 men. I always wondered why that is so.

"Gonad da boy-barian r leet worrier, Gonad no likin uther worrier on da sim, dey stealin Gonad's Slave hos dat cant say no, all wimmins belong Gonad.

Gonad killin udder worriers wid him sord cus Gonad r LEET!"

13 hours ago, Conall DeCuir said:

that's SL-Gor today

Really? It's always come across as a bunch of guys who are 25 going on 15, trying to pretend they are mighty warriors and irrisistable to women, despite their 'roleplay' clearly showing they can barely READ, let alone roleplay being dark age freelance killers. A bunch of machismo obsessed buffoons who loiter at noob places and BDSM sims trying to 'recruit' as many slave girls as possible.

The real reason there are more 'slaves' than 'masters' in SL Gor is they actively BS noobs in female avis telling them they can learn a "kewl lyfestile and Reel BDSM from a reel masta wot r a masta in reel lyfe".

I've lost count of the number of "Ex Gorean slaves" I've met who realised the Gonad-Da-Boybarian types were to D/s what a fresh dog-turd is to Chocolate Gateaux.

The worst part of Gor Online is the "Nu Gor Evolved" where, the Gonad-da-Boybarians have decided that wearing dark age tunics is "gay" and have switched from tunics and horses and bows to Biker jeans, AK-47's and motorbikes.

All the knuckle dragging sexual discrimination with a hefty side order of homophobia, and ADDED street-gang thuggery.
 

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