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aasimmunir

MESH MODEL POBLEMS

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Hi guys, so after what felt like an eternity, i finally got a somewhat working model that can be used in secondlife. My story, i was assigned a project to make a virtual training center. i have the land. I saw youtube tutorials, on how to make a mesh model, from google sketchup pro 2017, which i made and then use blender, for the imports of 3ds files and then exporting of the dae files. sounds simple. the first problems i incurred were of the physics files, i had no clue what they were, or why they were even needed, but as i searched they were important, so i fixed that issue  as well and finally got a model, that gave no error (mav-max-hull-exceeded). Once uploaded, i also changed the convex hull to prims, so that the physics file is used. But know i am experiencing a different problem, rather it's annoying.

Firstly as you can see from the picture below, the model in Sketchup i had made, is very crisp and clear, if has a floor and proper tiled walls, but when it come to second life it, has no floor, no walls, and even loses the windows, i dont know if it is a bug or if i'm doing anything wrong, (i might be, since i am new) but it's very annoying. Since the floor disappears, the grass pattern in the land starts to appear, which looks so bad.

Secondly, even though the land i am using is flat, i did clear out the bumps, by using the flatten tool. Also, there are two entrances to the model, i can only go through one, even thought the physics files shows 2 entrances. know dont know why the other entrance is blocked. even though i can fly out the windows =P . Also, in some places inside the model, i feel as if there is some object blocking my path, that is, if i am to enter a room, there will be some blockage, i have to move left and right until i suddenly start walking in air, like i'm climbing some steps,( which dont exist) i will go up and then finally manage to enter the room. There is nothing else on the land, it is flat, only the mesh object is present, why is the model not working smoothy, why the blockages and no floor?

lastly, the walls and and the roof , show gaps between them, once inside, the building model, the roof, doesnt show, and the, gaps between walls, star appearing again and again.

any help please? i have a deadline by the weeks end, any help would be much appreciated. I have posted the pictures too, please help.

Thank you =)

orignal.png

ntvs.png

Edited by aasimmunir

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Well first off that is a complex project even for someone who knows how to build buildings in mesh for SL :D.

Second, Sketchup has many issues inherent when importing into SL. From scratch in Blender would have been a better choice. "Easy" doesn't mean it will work well :D.

That being said you likely still have a variety of issues. One being the physics. You didn't say how you made the physics models or how you imported them as physics files with your model, but if you can't walk through one of the doors, then something is obviously wrong. 

You can see your ACTUAL physics shapes by turning them on like this:   

physics shape viewing.jpg

Edited by Chic Aeon

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Since we can't seem to edit AFTER adding a photo to our reply (I have tried so many times) I am continuing here.

You can only have EIGHT materials assigned in Second Life per mesh object. Any more than that the uploader divides the mesh up "for you". That could be an issue. 

Textures don't upload with your mesh (at least many of us haven't been able to do that for EVER LOL. You also need to MAP the textures to your model by unwrapping. You may not have done that. 

There are other things that can go wrong certainly but I have never used Sketchup (purposefully) so can't point out specifics. 

Most folks would have uploaded this in SECTIONS, not as one giant mesh. Or, if they are proficient as a linkset with a separate physics model for each piece of the linkset (this could negate some more than 8 material problems if their are those). 

 

Uploading some photos of what you did in Blender (or explaining more) might be helpful to folks trying to help you.

 

Good luck.

 

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51 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

Since we can't seem to edit AFTER adding a photo to our reply (I have tried so many times) I am continuing here.

You can only have EIGHT materials assigned in Second Life per mesh object. Any more than that the uploader divides the mesh up "for you". That could be an issue. 

Textures don't upload with your mesh (at least many of us haven't been able to do that for EVER LOL. You also need to MAP the textures to your model by unwrapping. You may not have done that. 

There are other things that can go wrong certainly but I have never used Sketchup (purposefully) so can't point out specifics. 

Most folks would have uploaded this in SECTIONS, not as one giant mesh. Or, if they are proficient as a linkset with a separate physics model for each piece of the linkset (this could negate some more than 8 material problems if their are those). 

 

Uploading some photos of what you did in Blender (or explaining more) might be helpful to folks trying to help you.

 

Good luck.

 

thank you so much for taking out the time to reply, well actually, about the physics shape, i watched tutorials, in which people mostly, for example for walls, would use the same, mesh file, without any effects, it's like this, i export 2 files from sketchup, as 3ds files, one being the proper edited model, and the other one with the most basic geometry, these are imported as 3ds files into blender, from which in then , export 2 dae files, but from each i used to remove( delete) the camera object just as the tutorial suggested. here is one link )https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mld4wZgLv_E . after these, i would go to second life, build>model> import, the normal file>then the physics tab> upload the physics,> analyze and then calculate, normally i used to get the (max hulls exceeded error), but if all goes well, the calculations give me number. I might be doing it all wrong, sorry but i admit i'm a noob here =P 

 

blender 1.png

blender 2.png

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So i found the problem, by doing what you told me, i went to developer and did the physics thing, and remember the bumps i was telling you about? they are some triangular shapes, pyramids, that have appeared, from where i do not know. i have attached the picture please check. the second image is the one, which shows door number 2, it is being block by these rectangular objects. the 3 image image is the view from inside door number one, or the building itself. the last image is also from the inside, remember the gaps between the walls i was talking about? i hope this can help you figure out my situation.

thank you again.

problem.png

problem 2.png

problem 3.png

problem 4.png

Edited by aasimmunir

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:D

Well now you know.  You REALLY need to make a physics shape from scratch either using cubes (that is my method) or planes. The parts of the physics model are NOT connected (in that their edges don't touch).   

While I am not the best physics model maker, here is an idea of how it works. I also strongly suggest breaking up your model into sections.  Then again, someone may have better advice. 

Here is a post on physics that might help:  

 

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I hate to suggest this but if you have a deadline coming up soon, I suggest you simply set the whole buiding to physics shape none and link a couple of invisible prims to it for physics. If you upload the entire house as a single mesh, you will have so much excessive downlaod weight anyway that a handful of prims linked to it shouldn't increase the land impact. It's not an ideal solution but you're trying to run before you've learned to crawl here so it's never going to be an efficient Second Life build anyway.

I really hope you continue working on your meshing skills but realistically, you're not going to learn that in a week. So get this done the easiest possible way so you have a reasonably presentable building for your project, then start studying the basics of mesh making for Second Life and take it step by step.

One thing I'd like to mention though, if you look at the pictures of physics models, you see that Chic's is blue and yours is yellow. The physics model display is color coded accodring to how efficient they are. A blue model can mean anything from excellent to very bad. Other colors range from very, very bad indeed to complete disaster.

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52 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

:D

Well now you know.  You REALLY need to make a physics shape from scratch either using cubes (that is my method) or planes. The parts of the physics model are NOT connected (in that their edges don't touch).   

While I am not the best physics model maker, here is an idea of how it works. I also strongly suggest breaking up your model into sections.  Then again, someone may have better advice. 

Here is a post on physics that might help:  

 

so basically, i should break my model, to sub blocks, lets say 3 and then repeat the whole thing?, my problem is with the physics file, if i knew how to make a proper one, that would be great, any ideas? thank you again.

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18 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

I hate to suggest this but if you have a deadline coming up soon, I suggest you simply set the whole buiding to physics shape none and link a couple of invisible prims to it for physics. If you upload the entire house as a single mesh, you will have so much excessive downlaod weight anyway that a handful of prims linked to it shouldn't increase the land impact. It's not an ideal solution but you're trying to run before you've learned to crawl here so it's never going to be an efficient Second Life build anyway.

I really hope you continue working on your meshing skills but realistically, you're not going to learn that in a week. So get this done the easiest possible way so you have a reasonably presentable building for your project, then start studying the basics of mesh making for Second Life and take it step by step.

One thing I'd like to mention though, if you look at the pictures of physics models, you see that Chic's is blue and yours is yellow. The physics model display is color coded accodring to how efficient they are. A blue model can mean anything from excellent to very bad. Other colors range from very, very bad indeed to complete disaster.

" I suggest you simply set the whole buiding to physics shape none and link a couple of invisible prims to it for physics."

you have me lost here =P can you elaborate further? Thank you.

 

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46 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

 

One thing I'd like to mention though, if you look at the pictures of physics models, you see that Chic's is blue and yours is yellow. The physics model display is color coded accodring to how efficient they are. A blue model can mean anything from excellent to very bad. Other colors range from very, very bad indeed to complete disaster.

Wow. I didn't know that. I think I have only seen blue. That isn't my house by the way; it is the "store" for Home EXPO that we have so we can set up our builds early. 

I was thinking about the set to phantom thing also (cringing a bit but thinking). The physics though is just one of many problems, so others need to be solved too. A good lesson for folks to start small and learn as you go :D. 

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32 minutes ago, aasimmunir said:

so basically, i should break my model, to sub blocks, lets say 3 and then repeat the whole thing?, my problem is with the physics file, if i knew how to make a proper one, that would be great, any ideas? thank you again.

For a physics model you (simplistically) need to define the areas that you want to be "solid" as simply as you possibly can. Here is another example.  Honestly, your first project was beyond anything comfortable or practical. That is the biggest problem.   Because there are other things that you noted wrong too. Jumping into the deep end of the pool without learning to float can be dangerous.  

I will leave you with this simpler example -- look at the photos. There are LOTS of posts and videos on making house physics for SL models. 

 

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52 minutes ago, aasimmunir said:

" I suggest you simply set the whole buiding to physics shape none and link a couple of invisible prims to it for physics."

you have me lost here =P can you elaborate further? Thank you.

 

Ummmm... You know what prims are, don't you? That sounds like a stupid question but I have actually met people who wanted to be SL builders and had never heard about them. Prims are the original building material in Second Life and even today probably what most of what you see in the world is made from. (Mesh wasn't introduced until 2011 and it's only very recently it has become an efficient building material - when I joined in 2013 the number of builders who had had time to learn how to use mesh well could still be counted on one hand)

Anyway, think of prims as Minecraft on steroids, you have seven different basic shapes and they can be twisted into a large number of forms. For a prim physics model for your house you jsut need the basic cube prim though. You make a cube prim by typing ctrl+4 to bring up the build window and then click on the ground. There you have a lovely 0.5x0.5x0.5 m plywood textured cube! :)

Make a couple of them, resize and position them so they match the floor, walls and roof of your building. You want the floor surface to align very closely to the mesh floor, the other surfaces you have a bit of margin of error for. Then, set the trasnparency of the cubes rto 100% so people don't see them and set the mesh house to phantom to eliminate its physics completely. Essentially what you do i build two separate buildings, one in mesh for people to see and one from prims for people to bump into. That's not the best way to do things of course but it works and it is probably the easiest way if you're in a hurry. Getting good physics is one of the most difficult parts of mesh making and you have to be prepared to do a lot of trial and error before you get it right. The first mesh I ever tried to make was a much simpler structure than yours and I had a more experienced mesh maker standing beside me telling me how to do it. I stil ahd to make a dozen or so different phsyics models before I got one I could actually use. Simple prim cubes will always have perfect physics and as long as you know how to make them, resize and reposition them and make them invisible, that's the easiest way.

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You may want to add a base to that building as well, to lift the floor from the ground. Or the the floor will be subject to Z-Fighting with the ground surface

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This has echoes of the problems I had with a mesh shipping container I made. It's on the Marketplace now and uses a couple of tricks to handle the physics. The model has no floor and no doors, and much simpler LOD models, I didn't use the importer generation. The physics model was about as simple as you get too, three sides and the roof. The floor is a prim, not mesh. The doors are mesh, with a door script.

Anyway, it works. The doors open and shut. You can walk in.

I made the models in Wings3D, and it seems that the export to .dae is a bit difficult for SL. I ended up transferring from Wings3D to Blender in .obj format and exporting from Blender as ,dae  I've noticed that a few other people avoid Blender for making the Mesh.

I wouldn't use SketchUp. I have tried it, there are some good models made with it, but details go wrong as the model heads into SL. I get the definite feeling that SL import is tested against Blender, and anything that Blender doesn't handle, SL doesn't handle.

Your model Isn't hugely different in principle from my shipping container, but there might be issues with the total size. I'd be inclined to split it up into sections. It might also be easier to work on.

 

Container_Pic_001.png

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Hi, it is sure the deadline is finished.

About the floor : you need to revert face on sketchup that's why it is invisible in SL.

About textures : The solution I found for that is to texturise with planner but it is not allways beautiful. As suggested by Chic Aeon, You need to MAP the textures to your model by unwrapping. I heard about but don't know how. You and I must learn to do it on blender.

As explained, the physics must be a build in same sizes as the main one where you put walls or cubes where avatar don't have to walk and ope where avatar can walk

About export/import/export : When finished on sketchup, the best method I found is to export as 3ds format. You import to blender, you select all (A and A) and you join all (Ctrl + J) and you export as Dae. You have to do same for the physic build.

I'm not sure if what I said has sense, but it works with me. I have two big problems : the LI is not so good optimizing and the texture. Working with sketchup is a real pleasure. I dream to find people using sketchup to second life so we can exchange tips.

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For big builds as yours, it is fo sure better to make it in different parts. So more easy to manage, more easy for more textures et and less heavy mostly of time.

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To help on the learning and what Nabrej put.

In game engines and Second LIfe to 'see' something, it has to have something called normals.  This is basically the "face" of the polygon.   So if you have a roof for example with "normals" facing outwards if you walked inside you would see the clear sky above you, if you walk outside and look up at the house you would see the roof.  

So the correct workflow would be to create "ceilings" inside the house with the "normals" facing inwards or downwards.  That way inside the house you will see a ceiling and not the sky.

That's not really the official description of normals it's much more than that - but as a basic "idea" so you understand why you may not see something in SL.

A good little Wiki to read is here for game development but you can apply some of the theory - > http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/Normal_map as a reference point.

You did the right thing posting here, I learned a lot on these forums (and still do - I now even have floors you can rez stuff on due to these folk) so it's always worth a search here too for general issues you are seeing.  Now your project is done, hope you stick around to do more! :)

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