Blacklisted for an honest review

[Theresa Tennyson]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

Have we established exactly what this Debit permission is for? Is it charging for some item (a "basketball", I guess) and the proceeds go to the product's merchant instead of the owner? And that's made clear in the product description?

If so, I think the merchant should have mentioned that it needs Debit permission in the product description (if they didn't), and that's a valid point to raise with them both offline and in a review (so other buyers are warned until the product description is corrected). Of all the permissions, debit is most necessary to reveal.*

As we all know, Debit permission is not limited to the amount paid, so an owner would need to trust this script, and one is not inspired to trust a creator who doesn't "come clean" in the product description.

________________
* Also pretty important: Experience permission, because it demands the owner control a specific land setting to make use of the product.

My interpretation of the item description was that if your friends wanted to play basketball with your hoop they'd click it and be sent a basketball, but the object maker decided to do this by having a vendor system send the basketball rather than having it be sent from the object's inventory. (This item looks to be old enough to be well before "temporary attachments/experiences" because the vendor system it mentions is all but obsolete now anyway.)

I'm not saying it was a good idea by any means, mind you...

[greek Wingtips]

There are many ways one can do this, I sometimes let them person know that I going to write a negative review and give them 4 days to reply, if not then I go ahead and write my review, I think reviews are a goos thing but in some cases can be wrong, as for banning them from the store, well that the prerogative of the seller

[Pamela Galli]

So in conclusion, for those new to SL:

There ARE are bad merchants (and bad customers) in SL. 

At least customers have the option to choose not to do business with any merchant they determine are bad. 

 

[TatianaDokuchic Varriale]

1 hour ago, Marianne Little said:

Well, I have heard that the merchant removes an item from the Marketplace and then add it again, and all reviews is gone. This does not take a long time. LL is not involved at all. See this forum thread, second reply and the following:

My understanding is that removing and then adding the same item back to the Marketplace is against the TOS, not that that is going to stop some people.  Besides that, the item loses its relevance ranking (you have to start at the bottom again) and all of its positive reviews (if any).  So though it might not take a long time to do this there are a number of consequences that could make a merchant think twice.

I don't understand why LL would remove positive reviews either - it's a curious situation.

Edited April 24, 2017 by TatianaDokuchic Varriale
typos

[SensualSeduction1313]

17 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Neither of you are looking good in this. That particular merchant is well known for having... a... certain... type.... of customer service behavior, but the description of items similar to what you bought say clearly that they use a vendor system to give basketballs to your friends, which is why it requires debit permissions. It's similar to the many "freebie" vendors that require you to pay L$1 and which immediately return that L$1. Of course, the description might not have had that in it at the time, but it has nothing to do with "promoting gambling with small children."

In the product that I purchased, no where does it say the use of a vendor system. The description is small and very simple. If it had said use of vendor system I would not have purchased it. 

[Marianne Little]

18 minutes ago, TatianaDokuchic Varriale said:

My understanding is that removing and then adding the same item back to the Marketplace is against the TOS, not that that is going to stop some people.  Besides that, the item loses its relevance ranking (you have to start at the bottom again) and all of its positive reviews (if any).  So though it might not take a long time to do this there are a number of consequences that could make a merchant think twice.

I don't understand why LL would remove positive reviews either - it's a curious situation.

The positive review can be edited to tell about a dispute about another item. I often see demo buys used this way. It is risky for the merchant to let it stand up, since it can backfire on him/her any time. Maybe Pamela can tell if the seller is notified when a review is edited?

[Pamela Galli]

Yes, the seller is notified of any changes. But as a merchant, I would not see the point in proactively requesting a positive review be removed for that reason, when I could just wait and do so if a review was changed from positive to (spuriously) negative. 

[Marianne Little]

51 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:

Yes, the seller is notified of any changes. But as a merchant, I would not see the point in proactively requesting a positive review be removed for that reason, when I could just wait and do so if a review was changed from positive to (spuriously) negative. 

I don't know. We can only guess. Could be a very worried one, who is suspicious and paranoid. It is really not important. The reviews is gone, the land owner can ban anyone, LL is not going to do anything about a dispute. Best thing for the OP is to move on and forget it.

[Pamela Galli]

1 hour ago, Marianne Little said:

I don't know. We can only guess. Could be a very worried one, who is suspicious and paranoid. It is really not important. The reviews is gone, the land owner can ban anyone, LL is not going to do anything about a dispute. Best thing for the OP is to move on and forget it.

I am suspicious, too -- or rather, skeptical: I don't believe everything I hear from disgruntled people in the forums. ;-) All I know is if I got 15 positive reviews from a customerI would not request they be deleted, and I certainly would not delist and relist the listings in order to remove them.

Edited April 24, 2017 by Pamela Galli

[Dakota Linden]

Greetings!

I am sorry to hear that there was an issue with another user regarding a product that was purchased from them.

As has been said in the posts in this thread, Merchants cannot remove a review from their Marketplace Product Listing.

They can report the review and Linden Lab will look over the review, and if it is found to be in violation of any Linden Lab policy, the review will be removed. 

If a Merchant removes the original listing and creates a new listing for the same item, please report the new item listing by clicking on the Flag this item link and then choosing the options: Spam or Disallowed Listing Practices - Item was disabled and relisted.

Removing a listing and then creating a new listing for the item is absolutely not allowed. 

[Tari Landar]

8 hours ago, Pamela Galli said:

Yes, the seller is notified of any changes. But as a merchant, I would not see the point in proactively requesting a positive review be removed for that reason, when I could just wait and do so if a review was changed from positive to (spuriously) negative. 

I just want to point out that this is how it is *supposed* to work...but usually does not(despite what LL says about it). This "feature"::coughs::, has been broken for some time, and never fully fixed. Out of all the reviews I have gotten, only two have come with email notifications. Granted, I don't have a large number of them or even a lot of products to begin with, lol, but, yeah...this does not actually work right. 

[Chase01]

If anything can be taken away from all of this is to contact the seller should you have a concern or issue with a product you purchased before leaving a review. I don't know if it would have made any difference in this situation (probably not) but you'll find that many sellers will go above and beyond if you do contact them first. I know from a consumer's perspective—you might be thinking "why should it matter" or "what difference does it make" but it does. If you've worked in the service industry before then you'd know that people tend to take things personally. So a negative review to some comes off as an attack. I am not condoning it, I don't agree with it but this is their mindset. You'll have better results as a whole just reaching out direct first. If the seller is unwilling to help or is unresponsive well that is on them and fire away.

As some others have pointed out you cannot just simply remove a negative comment. That would undermine the entire review system. They either removed the item and re-listed it or they'd have to submit a ticket to LL to have it be removed and then it would only be taken down if it violates their TOS.

[Pamela Galli]

26 minutes ago, Chase01 said:

If anything can be taken away from all of this is to contact the seller should you have a concern or issue with a product you purchased before leaving a review. I don't know if it would have made any difference in this situation (probably not) but you'll find that many sellers will go above and beyond if you do contact them first. I know from a consumer's perspective—you might be thinking "why should it matter" or "what difference does it make" but it does. If you've worked in the service industry before then you'd know that people tend to take things personally. So a negative review to some comes off as an attack. I am not condoning it, I don't agree with it but this is their mindset. You'll have better results as a whole just reaching out direct first. If the seller is unwilling to help or is unresponsive well that is on them and fire away.

As some others have pointed out you cannot just simply remove a negative comment. That would undermine the entire review system. They either removed the item and re-listed it or they'd have to submit a ticket to LL to have it be removed and then it would only be taken down if it violates their TOS.

It is human nature. Here is an article describing how rude patients get worse medical care: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/27/well/family/what-happens-when-parents-are-rude-in-the-hospital.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fhealth&action=click&contentCollection=health&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=323&pgtype=sectionfront

Contacting a merchant before leaving a bad review is certainly not mandatory, but it is a courtesy. Like all courtesy, it lubricates interactions. It is the best chance most buyers have catching flies with honey with most merchants. Not always, but usually.

Leaving a bad review is the nuclear option. If using it does not provide what the buyer wants from the merchant, he has no further leverage. He has used the only leverage he has -- merchants just laugh when a buyer threatens to report them to LL. 

It is just common sense: courtesy is your best first step in getting what you want, from anyone in SL, including merchants. Threats are mostly empty.

[CheriColette]

21 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:

Leaving a bad review is the nuclear option. If using it does not provide what the buyer wants from the merchant, he has no further leverage. He has used the only leverage he has -- merchants just laugh when a buyer threatens to report them to LL. 

 

But the OP claims not to have left a 'bad review' but an honest one. A review that was good about the product and also pointing out something that maybe wasnt obvious to a buyer (about the ongoing cost). Thats what I want in marketplace reviews. 

I recently read a damming review for a sheer top and decided to buy it anyway and test it for myself (there was no demo) and then I wrote my own review counteracting the previous one. I had  nice reply from the seller after posting it.  

  

[Pamela Galli]

23 minutes ago, CheriColette said:

But the OP claims not to have left a 'bad review' but an honest one. A review that was good about the product and also pointing out something that maybe wasnt obvious to a buyer (about the ongoing cost). Thats what I want in marketplace reviews. 

I recently read a damming review for a sheer top and decided to buy it anyway and test it for myself (there was no demo) and then I wrote my own review counteracting the previous one. I had  nice reply from the seller after posting it.  

  

What I mean is that as general rule, the courtesy of contacting a creator about a problem before leaving  a review is a better strategy than not. Everyone is entitled to leave any kind of review they want, of course,  and it goes without saying that neither merchant nor reviewer should resort to personal remarks of any kind. Ever. Under any circumstances. 

Edited April 25, 2017 by Pamela Galli

[CheriColette]

Yes Pamela,  I do agree with the courtesy call too. 

[Chase01]

4 hours ago, CheriColette said:

But the OP claims not to have left a 'bad review' but an honest one. A review that was good about the product and also pointing out something that maybe wasnt obvious to a buyer (about the ongoing cost). Thats what I want in marketplace reviews. 

I recently read a damming review for a sheer top and decided to buy it anyway and test it for myself (there was no demo) and then I wrote my own review counteracting the previous one. I had  nice reply from the seller after posting it.  

  

Contacting the seller is giving them the benefit of the doubt and a lot of bad reviews I've read could have been easily avoided had they contacted the seller directly for assistance. It also leads to be more accurate reviews.

 

[Marianne Little]

And the most ill informed review is the "You stupid and evil merchant, I didn't recive any thing at all!" When I read them, I literally roll my eyes.

Failed delivery is a technical MP issue. Contact the seller and get no transfer items redelivered. For transfer items as Gacha resells, I am always careful to be logged in and not busy when I press "buy". Knock on wood, it's not been any failed deliveries so far.

If the review said they contacted the seller and got no response for a failed delivery, or that they recieved empty folders or boxes, that is another thing.

 

[Chase01]

@Marianne Little

You mean like this??

 

[Dakota Linden]

10 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

And the most ill informed review is the "You stupid and evil merchant, I didn't recive any thing at all!" When I read them, I literally roll my eyes.

Failed delivery is a technical MP issue. Contact the seller and get no transfer items redelivered. For transfer items as Gacha resells, I am always careful to be logged in and not busy when I press "buy". Knock on wood, it's not been any failed deliveries so far.

If the review said they contacted the seller and got no response for a failed delivery, or that they recieved empty folders or boxes, that is another thing.

 

Greetings!

Failed deliveries are completely out of the seller's control.  If any buyer has an issue with receiving the item, they should immediately submit a Support Case for the Failed Marketplace Delivery.

Sellers's should in no way suffer a negative review for failed deliveries. 

Any review that reports a failed delivery will be removed for being Off Subject/Off Topic if it is reported to Linden Lab. 

 

[Chic Aeon]

So I got a little black popup  that suggested (I had to read fast as it disappeared) that Pamela thought a Marketplace review should include info on whether the person got the demo or read the description. Apologies if she didn't say that; I can't find it anywhere (thinking, thinking).  Not used to that new alert system ^^. 

The problem is most folks DON'T READ. This isn't an SL phenomena, it is across the board and very much Internet and our media concentric lifestyle.  I can't even understand why folks play gacha machines when they have only teeny tiny and often BAD pictures to give hints what is in there. I am part of the "show me the money"; I want to see what I am buying -- at least in a big close up photo. 

There are a couple of issues with the "I tried the demo and read the description" logic LOL, the biggest on being that just because they bought the demo, it doesn't mean that they REZZED the demo. The other being that could simply lie and say they read the description. 

Now and then I put up a bad review on Amazon as a warning to folks but mostly I put up nice glowing ones as I am a fairly good shopper and DO read all the info before purchasing. 

I don't think there is any way around this other than to educate new users about all the possible schemes of the Marketplace. 

Honestly? I would be happier if there were no reviews. Most of my things when reviewed have very good marks, but so few people bother (except those competitors) that it makes it fairly unimportant.  I know for a fact that some creators buy their own things just to give themselves (via alts) five star ratings. The system is very flawed. 

 

Going off to read Dakota's info :D. 

[Phil Deakins]

7 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

The other being that could simply lie and say they read the description. 

I don't think it's necessarily lying when people say they've read something when they haven't. I used to have people saying they'd read the instructions for an item they bought, but still couldn't get it to work. They hadn't closely read and followed the instructions at all but they thought they had. What they'd done is quickly scan the instructions and, of course, they'd missed certain things.

And, of course, there are those who seem to be incapable of following closely read instructions. There was one time when a customer (a native english speaker) couldn't get an item to work, even from following the instructions. So I got on voice with her so that everything I said was absolutely clear, but, try as I might, I could not get her to left click on the thing. I explained very clearly what left clicking is, etc. etc. but nothing worked. I spent half an hour with her but I could not get her to left click it. At one point she said, "You must think I'm stupid". I definitely thought that but I didn't actually say it. In the end I had to give up. I don't know if she ever managed to make it work.

So actually reading things like descriptions and instructions doesn't necessarily mean that they are understood, or that what they say is taken in. They can be quickly read or scanned, and some incorrect assumptions made due to not reading carefully enough. And, of course, people can lie about having read them too

I have to admit to being like that in RL. I think something is obvious so I merely scan the instructions. Usually it's fine but once in a while it isn't.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Phil Deakins

[Chase01]

I have personally found the reviews to be helpful especially on occasions when a demo was not available. With that being said, Chic is right. The system has its flaws and there are those with ulterior motives that will look to gain the system for their own benefit. If a seller has a limited number of reviews and is being targeted by a competitor, its going to result in a loss of sales. To what is extent is really unknown.