Prokofy Neva

Lindens Need to Fix Inventory Loss in The Worst Way

11 posts in this topic

Once again, I've heard of a fellow group member's terrible inventory loss of tens of thousands of items worth hundreds if not thousands of real-life dollars.

This has happened far too many times to tenants of mine -- and I've suffered it myself. There was a period of a year when I logged on and I never knew whether I'd find 40,000 or 50,000 or 10,000 inventory items. Finally the Lindens "fixed this" with a patch and stabilized it, saying they removed corrupt items. I was mystified. This stabilized the numbers, but I continued to find things missing. Fortunately with "redelivery terminals" I could get SOME but HARDLY ALL back.

But the devastation some people have suffered -- tens of thousands of items, 9,000 or 10,000 or 50,000 items GONE in a stroke -- is just way too common.

This should NOT be happening.

After all, these items are not really "lost". Every single one of them exists on the Lindens' asset server. Let's say you had collected 100 full sets of gatchas, including the rares, and they were wiped out in an inventory loss. ALL those items exist as created things on the merchants' own account and of course the Lindens' asset server. OTHER PEOPLE with a copy of those "single copy" items did not lose THEIR copy. Because -- asset server.

What happens with a loss is the POINTER or link or whatever they call it from your inventory to the asset server is lost. NOW WHY CAN'T THOSE BE SAVED? Why isn't there a "reset" like a sim that goes back to your inventory before the time of loss? Why isn't there a Linden Redelivery Terminal *for your whole inventory*???

I can't see any reason not to.

Yes, it means more tables in the data base. But whats a few more million tables? The loss is so terrible and it makes people leave SL and stop buying things in many cases.

Please don't tell me about clearing cache, reloading, sorting by alphabetical letters, or putting out laurel leaves at a full moon. These things don't work. Low-level Lindens or hired CS people tell you it's your fault. Why, you shouldn't have deleted folders and cleared trash.

Except in virtually every case of huge loss like this I've heard of, the customer never deliberately deleted anything at all. Obviously they wouldn't delete a folder of their most prized breedables or gatcha rares.

Other know-it-alls tell you that you should have sub-folders. But they do, and still lose all their inventory.

This is fixable. It is fixable perhaps even for money. A feature of Premium -- or just a feature, period -- could be called "inventory back-up". For 10,000 it is $5. For 100,000 it is $25 or whatever the market would bear. I would pay that; so would others in business. That back-up feature would mean the Lindens save a copy of all the inventory pointers and then reconstruct them in the event of loss.

The worse thing about all this is how MANY incidents there are of even HUGE inventory loss but it doesn't get on the radar screen. Many people are in despair and just quit and they don't think of anything more to do. If it were me, I would be sending registered letters return receipt requested to the Lab. The TOS prevents lawsuits and requests arbitrage. That's fine, then that remedy should be exhausted. I think in some cases even given their existing tools the Lindens might recover some of this.

But obviously they don't have a "set point established" or other similar type of system for inventory -- and they should. Even for money.

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Posted (edited)

I have had many inventory losses over the years, the first big one about six years ago and that was the loss of my WHOLE "Home and Garden" folder and I blog and hunted then so it was a pretty big one. A "sister" lost ALL of her shop items (about a half a sim store) and only had things that were rezzed in world. She closed her shop after that just from disillusionment.

Comments on the forums are often "oh you didn't really lose it -- you just need to (insert advice that doesn't work because the goods ARE gone).  Now and then things come back singly in VERY odd spots. Like an animation under body parts -- that sort of thing -- making no sense at all. But those are rare occurrences.

There are definitely problems STILL with the database.   A few months ago I notice that I was about several thousand items "light" in my inventory which is currently at 30,000 partly because I go through and delete often -- and partly because of the "inventory fairy" who deletes for me.   After about six major losses over the years, I sighed and figured I would find out eventually what I had lost -- and I did a few weeks ago. Most all my backups (and I had MANY copies as I have learned over the years) of my installation at LEA7 (three years worth). I have a few things left, but a lot is gone. 

I am used to this now and happily I am not a person who cares that much about material goods (virtual or real life) so after that first big debacle, the following losses were less traumatic. 

 

I do by the way have subfolders and subfolders under subfolders as I am very organized. I also put copies of items in boxes and have REDUNDANT backups. Still -- almost all of LEA7, gone.  I have no clue how that happens really.  The safest thing is to rez anything you really care about, but that doesn't work with clothes and hair and such. 

In Opensim there are regular backups that can be reinstated and I have to assume there are (or should be) backups in SL, but I have not seen them working -- ever. Tickets get you nothing but a "we'll try if you can give us an exact list of what you lost". Well DUH!

All that being said, I would NOT be one of the ones going premium or paying extra to "protect" my goods. Partly because I have no faith that they would actually be protected -- the track record is so bad and party because I always have new and better things coming in.  I make my personal backups on the beta grid and in Opensim -- and of course the active files on my computer (and drive G backup :D). After that I just try and let it go when it happens. 

I figure I have lost well over $10,000 worth US over the years. Happily I didn't actually PAY most of that out. I did however work for the items, so that counts too. 

 

 

 

Edited by Chic Aeon
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Prok, Chic

This issue has been a feature of Second Life now for as long as I can recall, and has never been satisfactorily been addressed by the Lab.

Prok's suggestion is not new and it would be met with the same whiny response from LL that it is just "too hard".  Nonsense. It is actually quite easy, it is just something that they do not want to have to do.

There are times when I utterly fail to understand the Linden Lab mindset over this.

I have lost small amounts of inventory on a couple of occasions due to database errors or corruption, but at worst whole accounts can become corrupted and lost to their user.  The simple fact is that LL do not wish to invest in the server storage space that inventory backup would need.  It wouldn't be trivial but it IS doable.

I would not hold your metaphoric breath for this feature to be introduced, LL have shown scant regard for innovations on other platforms.   Unless it's shiny.

Edited by Ayesha Askham
Grammar correction
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I agree, Linden Research clearly has the brain power to fix SL Inventory issues, however SL is still community driven. The folks at LL are trying to bring SL to true VR via project Sansar. It's almost like SL except you can use a VR headset to view and create content. This is a big deal for the folks at LL and they are spending huge sum of money and resources to pull this off, not only that but the people who make the VR headsets could make a lot of money if designers and builders begin to move to the new platform. With so much time and money going to Sansar why worry about Old secondlife.

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4 hours ago, AviumBanker said:

I agree, Linden Research clearly has the brain power to fix SL Inventory issues, however SL is still community driven. The folks at LL are trying to bring SL to true VR via project Sansar. It's almost like SL except you can use a VR headset to view and create content. This is a big deal for the folks at LL and they are spending huge sum of money and resources to pull this off, not only that but the people who make the VR headsets could make a lot of money if designers and builders begin to move to the new platform. With so much time and money going to Sansar why worry about Old secondlife.

Because Project Stupid isn't SL-2, and never will be, because we're more interested in SL than in a VR Art Gallery, and don't feel like wasting hundreds of dollars on Vomit-Cam Geek-Goggles we won't use for anything else, ever.
 

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@AviumBanker

I'm assuming your comment was ironic.  That would be a polite thought.  Sansar is most assuredly NOT SL2 as others note, it is also in technical trouble thanks to LL's emphasis on "VR" (by which I assume you mean first person 3D).  That having been said, there is no reason why, for the expenditure of a little money and a lot of effort, inventory back-up should not be developed.  What the lack of it DOES show is how short of programmers LL is.  There is a lot of life, and profit, left in SL and investment in inventory backup is a sensible option, if LL will bite the bullet and put some resources on it.  You said it yourself...SL is "community driven":  the community wants inventory backup.

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Assuming there is a backup system how does someone counter...

  • Backup
  • Sell copy/transfer items
  • Restore
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On 4/20/2017 at 3:06 AM, AviumBanker said:

I agree, Linden Research clearly has the brain power to fix SL Inventory issues, however SL is still community driven. The folks at LL are trying to bring SL to true VR via project Sansar. It's almost like SL except you can use a VR headset to view and create content. This is a big deal for the folks at LL and they are spending huge sum of money and resources to pull this off, not only that but the people who make the VR headsets could make a lot of money if designers and builders begin to move to the new platform. With so much time and money going to Sansar why worry about Old secondlife.

You've got to be joking... The money LL is putting into developing Sansar is money they make with Second Life, and I would expect they'd use it to fix SL's serious issues first of all. Come on, they still didn't even get round to make a decent viewer over the years...

No, as noted by others, Sansar is a "different animal", not a Second Life replacement. I've tried the High Fidelity environment and it's just hideous, at its current stage. Still, it probably is quite some steps ahead of Sansar, and the whole principle is way better, as you can host your place and stuff in your own computer.

All that said, yes, LL should seriously worry about SL because without it there will be no Sansar, to say the least.

Edited by MBeatrix
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Callum

Your comment puzzles me.  Inventory backup doesn't provide any more opportunities to pirate IP than already exist, so far as I can see, so perhaps you see a possibility that I don't but I really do not see any IP problems associated with the concept.

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@Callum Meriman @Ayesha Askham

Indeed. What is NOT being requested is a creation of a real-time back-up of single copies of non-copy items, or copiable versions of non-copy items against the creator's wishes.

What is being requested is storage of the POINTERS from the user's inventory to the asset server so that there is evidence of what the user purchased or obtained from transfer.

Then in the event of a claim of loss ticket, you can compare the pointers kept on file with what is now in the inventory, see that X, Y, Z etc are missing, and restore them as they were in single copies on transfer. 

Can this system be gamed? Oh, I don't know; most things in SL get gamed. But given that it's possible to check the inventory to see if the pointers are matching actual objects, I don't see it as something that can be abused.

Couldn't somebody get a bunch of stuff, sell it, and then claim loss? Well ,those buy and sell movements will be recorded on the server and visible. When you sell or transfer an item, the pointer from your inventory to the asset server is removed like a price tag. Surely there is a way to distinguish the tags from that operation to the tags missing from unidentified loss or crashes that lead to loss.

I'm assuming that the capturing of the pointers to the asset server is something discrete and doable. Maybe it isn't. Maybe it dynamically changes with rezzes inworld or somethig who knows. But I think surely it is a list in a table, it can be copied on the servers and then used to restore lost data. 

Edited by Prokofy Neva

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