"SKILL GAMING"

[iimi]

Ok this is a hard topic to talk about but it must be said. I myself had started in skill gaming 2 years ago, at first I was not really thrilled about the idea about throwing my money away to these games that they happen to call "skill gaming"... which really in theory IS gambling, I don't care what SL wants to call it. My actions led me down a path to distruction, now of which I have conquered on my own but there are still others that don't want to necessarily talk about this topic due to the nature of the addiction and YES it is an addiction. They don't want to categorize this  as "gambling" because second life has not allowed gambling to go on in world.. BUT this loophole they have managed to pull of still sucks people in. People STILL lost hundreds of THOUSANDS of dollars in world and yes I have seen it first had, I have made friends within the skill gaming world that have lost only to come back and lose more. People need help in regards to this issue, the issue won't go away if we just ignore it! I want to know who else has had an issue with this in world. I'm not afraid to speak up.

[SAULGOODiE]

You make a great point @iimi , gambling in SL presents the same risks and rewards as it does IRL, so it's quite possible for residents to get addicted. 

How you mention SL does not categorize "Skill Gaming" as "Gambling" might be the biggest problem, because it helps people distance themselves from that mindset. I personally have not dealt with this topic much in-world, I casually hit no-devil on the cheap occasionally myself, but seeing how many residents are active in Skill Gaming regions leads me to believe you are dead-on in assuming there are other Residents who need information and help. 

I'd actually encourage you to create a inworld Group to tackle this problem further. Providing something so simple as a group for folks to chat in about the difficulties they are going through could be quite a positive tool, a free one at that. 

[Bitsy Buccaneer]

After seeing the problems a friend has had with gambling in SL, I would just as soon see it gone completely.

The proprietors of the places use all sorts of techniques to foster repeated use, like having to wait around or return later to get payment. They're exploiting people's tendencies towards addictive gambling. It's very worrying if you care about someone who's prone to that.

[Jemma Sapphire]

You should worry rather that in that skill games location are a lots of bots...they don t have payment info.they are pushing buttons many times ,so you can see which one is a bot,,that bothers me!!

[Randy Pole]

The bots are there to make the place appear popular and thus rise in the ranking for destinations

[Cackle Amore]

I'm honestly surprised they still exist and even got their own "newbie island" of sorts linked to the Portal Park. They were all but abandoned the last time I stumbled back across em since they were quarantined from the rest of SL.

I do share the confused amusement at slot machines being called "Skill gaming" as there's none of that going on at all in RNG based things.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Digit Gears

[Mattie Morgan]

Banning games of skill, chance or whatever you want to call it because some are addicted to it and lose all their money is like saying we should ban it in real life because some are addicted to it and lose all their money.  We are all grown adults and if you can not control your addiction for ANYTHING that you spend your money on in Second Life OR real life, then it is your problem.  I know plenty here that are addicted to shopping, spending tons of Lindens on clothes and shoes... should we close all the stores? Makes as much sense as blaming the owners of the gaming devices or Linden for allowing it. I know this world has become a world (RL) of not talking responsibility for your actions. It is always someone else's fault, not your inability to control what you do and don't do. I for one, take full responsibility for what I do and do not do in both worlds. It is called self-discipline. 

[Wulfie Reanimator]

14 minutes ago, Mattie Morgan said:

Banning games of skill, chance or whatever you want to call it

It's not just "whatever you want to call it." One is legal, the other isn't. There's a distinction.

LL doesn't call them "gambling regions" because gambling as a legal term has a very specific meaning.

Any fully working slot machines that you may find must have been approved by Linden Lab to be in compliance with whatever legal regulations they must meet.

And bringing up something like a shopping addiction is just false-equivalence.

[Kyrah Abattoir]

@Mattie Morgan It's a bit like saying that kids who die from electrocution deserve it.

[Fionalein]

On 7/14/2019 at 5:26 AM, Wulfie Reanimator said:

And bringing up something like a shopping addiction is just false-equivalence.

A real shopping addiction can be as destructive - sadly it is hip now to suffer from fake shopping addiction. 

[Morena Tully]

The thing is, it really is skill gaming. I have been doing it for over 5 years now, it supports my SL, and I can honestly say I have *never* lost money. The issue is, it really is skill with how you spend. It's more than the games themselves. People start small, win, then think "oh, I'll win even more if I start spending more!" It simply doesn't work that way. Part of the skill is being content with smaller numbers, and using contests as part of winnings. Playing $1500L per game (or far far more), when the contests are paying $300L, doesn't make much sense... The people who lose so much money have no barometer for the number game.

I don't consider skill gaming in SL gambling, because for me, there's no gamble involved. There's a lot of factors that I use, that makes it no-risk. And no, I don't play free play (ok sometimes I do, but only because there's some different games with them that are fun)

I do think that the automated programs people use to play should be banned though. It removes any semblance of skill, playing the games themselves. I don't know where they get them, but go to any gaming place, and there's more of those than people actually playing.

[Sharion Scarmon]

oiii! Skill gaming is a fraud, skill is like 5% of the chance to win and the rest is decided by the game before it even starts. But I think since this industry moves a lot of money SL wants to keep it

[Extrude Ragu]

I'm unfamiliar with what rules creators have to comply with to qualify their machines as  'skill gaming'. Would be interesting to have a read. 

[Jet Dallas]

 

1 hour ago, Extrude Ragu said:

I'm unfamiliar with what rules creators have to comply with to qualify their machines as  'skill gaming'. Would be interesting to have a read. 

Gambling policy: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Policy_Regarding_Wagering_in_Second_Life

Skill Gaming Policy: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Second_Life_Skill_Gaming_Policy

[Coffee Pancake]

The gambling skill gaming in SL isn't even good gambl.. skill gaming.

Bring back hosted pot games.

[Nissa Shan]

If you pay a machine to play..then its a gamble..Learn some control..or get help! OR just stop logging in. It is called "self Control" this world of people thinking they need their hand held at everything needs to stop!

I know what skill games are....I pay out thousands to guests to play in tournaments,I Guess I am addicted to watching people enjoy themselves at my events...I guess I need help and should stop!

My guest pay not one L$ to play!  though a tip once in a while would be nice...regions are expensive....

OMG I might be addicted to Second life....maybe I need to cancel? NO..I know  SELF CONTROL!!!!!

[Nick0678]

Personally as long as i have won much more than i have lost i don't mind.

I don't play "everything" and "every single game" in order to kill my time, only play at the right timing regardless if it's a multiplayer or single player skill game.

For instance the other day there was a pot of 7.5k's in one of the multiplayer skill games, pay in was 1k and the players were just 4.

Statistically the odds were very good so it was worth the risk. I won, took the money and left to do other things.

Those who play too much, "usually" also pay too much (just like in RL).

 

[Ellith Blackwood]

Ahhh, I remember those things. They were fun to toss L$ in from time to time when bored. Ever since they began to comply with regulations though I haven't been able to touch them. People from Florida are banned from the regions entirely.

This is such an old topic, but since we're chatting about it I wanted to state that skill gaming is a real thing by itself. It's not just 'whatever SL wants to call it'. Betting on skill gaming is listed as illegal in Florida state laws. Gambling is also, as a separate entity.

So while they are similar in nature, they aren't the same thing. They can be an issue for people who have addictive personalities.... but anything can be. Gacha, shopping, avatar design, moving sims, alts, inventory hoarding, etc. Just be a good friend and try to help if you see one of your friends struggling with some form of addiction. 🙃

[Orwar]

On 6/28/2020 at 8:13 AM, Kassie Nova said:

People from Florida are banned from the regions entirely.

   I'm curious about how they keep track of that .. Is it something we put in our account info, or could it be circumvented with a VPN? I don't think that Sweden has any restrictions, I've at least never noticed any (except for that stupid high VAT, but I don't think a VPN will get me past the whole 'having a Swedish bank' thing). 

[Nick0678]

52 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   I'm curious about how they keep track of that .. Is it something we put in our account info, or could it be circumvented with a VPN? I don't think that Sweden has any restrictions, I've at least never noticed any (except for that stupid high VAT, but I don't think a VPN will get me past the whole 'having a Swedish bank' thing). 

When it comes to Skill Regions, all countries are allowed , restriction applies only to a few U.S states based on ip

Regarding VAT we have to live with it..

Edited July 2, 2020 by Nick0678

[Orwar]

3 minutes ago, Nick0678 said:

When it comes to Skill Regions, all countries are allowed , restriction applies only to a few U.S states based on ip

   I think I've heard of some countries being banned too, due to their local laws which LL must adhere to in order to provide their services (i.e. SL) in those countries. I could be mistaken though. 

[Nick0678]

There are people from all over, all of the EU countries ofc, Israel, KSA, Russia, Australia, Canada,Turkey etc..

Just a few U.S states are not allowed.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Second_Life_Skill_Gaming_FAQ#Prohibited_states_and_countries

 

PS i suppose North Korea and such arent but those arent allowed to join SL anyway .. so you know talking about those who are supposed to be in SL.

Edited July 2, 2020 by Nick0678

[Ellith Blackwood]

On 7/1/2020 at 7:32 PM, Orwar said:

   I'm curious about how they keep track of that .. Is it something we put in our account info, or could it be circumvented with a VPN? I don't think that Sweden has any restrictions, I've at least never noticed any (except for that stupid high VAT, but I don't think a VPN will get me past the whole 'having a Swedish bank' thing). 

Mmhm it’s the ip. I was going to move back to Nevada for awhile and changed all my account info to reflect it. Couldn’t go to the regions until I had left the state though. I’m sure a vpn is a possible work-around but I never screwed with it because  skill gaming was just a random urge versus something I ever became seriously into, so it was easy to give up.