Are European Visitors on Decline

[Marigold Devin]

8 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Agreed. The closest I've come to this kind of creative environment in RL is the local community theater, where I'm the Set Mistress. Not surprisingly, it's there for the same reason... role playing.

;-).

The closest I've come is watching my friend build up his tropical fish tank, adding a new fish here, a piece of coral there, and the latest addition is an anemone. Its such a relaxing hobby, colourful, definitely feeds the pleasure centre of his brain. Costs him a fair amount, and worth every penny for the joy it gives him (and I am sure if he could he would love to shrink himself down, climb into that tank, and live among the clown fish). 

I used to live in an underwater tank in world, complete with mermaids and sand pools and tropical plants, but being in Second Life, we had this place 3000m above ground. 

I've said it before, but I'll say it again, when we are old and losing our marbles a bit, there are going to be some crazy memories. If I tell someone I used to be a mermaid, or I could fly and had feathers (I sometimes am a cockatiel avatar), they'll just put it down to dementia!

 

[Vivienne Schell]

On 12.4.2017 at 8:36 AM, Klytyna said:

Back in the Glory Days of the SL Gold Rush, when the population mushroomed like mad, making money in SL was EASY!.

Yes and no. But it´s a total myth that SL made LOTS of money for the MANY. It surely was a myth born by the media hype back in the old days, certainly was helpful for Linden Lab and attracted a lot of newbies. But it remains a myth.

Just to clarify: Tateru Niro published valid statstics on exactly THIS issue until 2010, when Linden Lab withdrew access to their database infos. But the charts are still available here:

http://dwellonit.taterunino.net/sl-statistical-charts-testing/

Note that this was 2010, at a time when Second Life reached it´s peak.

250 users had a positive Linden Dollar flow over 5000 US dollars

400 users had a positive Linden dollar flow 2000 - 5000  US dollars

650 users had a positive Linden Dollar flow 1000 - 2000 US dollars

1000 users has a positive Linden Dollar flow 500 - 1000 US dollars

2500 users had a positive Linden Dollar flow 200 - 500 US dollars

2500 users had a positive Linden Dollar flow 100 - 200 US dollars

The vast majority of users with a positive Linden Dollar flow - about 20000 - never made more than 10 US dollars.

The statistics show that there were a lot of people earning some Linden Dollars, but also that there never were more than a handful out of the many, many thousands who made enough money to call it a serious kind of income.

 

[Klytyna]

4 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said:

Yes and no. But it´s a total myth that SL made LOTS of money for the MANY. It surely was a myth born by the media hype back in the old days, certainly was helpful for Linden Lab and attracted a lot of newbies. But it remains a myth.

Just to clarify: Tateru Niro published valid statstics on exactly THIS issue until 2010, when Linden Lab withdrew access to their database infos. But the charts are still available here:

http://dwellonit.taterunino.net/sl-statistical-charts-testing/

Note that this was 2010, at a time when Second Life reached it´s peak.

250 users had a positive Linden Dollar flow over 5000 US dollars

400 users had a positive Linden dollar flow 2000 - 5000  US dollars

650 users had a positive Linden Dollar flow 1000 - 2000 US dollars

1000 users has a positive Linden Dollar flow 500 - 1000 US dollars

2500 users had a positive Linden Dollar flow 200 - 500 US dollars

2500 users had a positive Linden Dollar flow 100 - 200 US dollars

The vast majority of users with a positive Linden Dollar flow - about 20000 - never made more than 10 US dollars.

The statistics show that there were a lot of people earning some Linden Dollars, but also that there never were more than a handful out of the many, many thousands who made enough money to call it a serious kind of income.

 

Most of the poor s.o.b's who trekked west to California in 1849, had trouble making enough to pay for the coffee, beans, and rotgut rye liquor, during the "Gold Rush". I chose that "Gold Rush" metaphor deliberately when making my post about 'expectations' derived from a rose tinted view of a 'golden age' that never really existed.
 

[Vivienne Schell]

4 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

Most of the poor s.o.b's who trekked west to California in 1849, had trouble making enough to pay for the coffee, beans, and rotgut rye liquor, during the "Gold Rush". I chose that "Gold Rush" metaphor deliberately when making my post about 'expectations' derived from a rose tinted view of a 'golden age' that never really existed.
 

Exactly. It never really existed, and it STILL is planted into the conciousness of many people. Which is surprising, isn´t it?

My guess is that the numbers went downhill dramatically over the following years, as Second Life user numbers declined, the market got saturated and content creation beacme a lot more specialised and skilled. Baiscally, Second Life never was a business model for 99 percent of it´s users. That´s the naked truth.

[Klytyna]

2 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said:

Exactly. It never really existed, and it STILL is planted into the conciousness of many people. Which is surprising, isn´t it?

My guess is that the numbers went downhill dramatically over the following years, as Second Life user numbers declined, the market got saturated and content creation beacme a lot more specialised and skilled. Baiscally, Second Life never was a business model for 99 percent of it´s users. That´s the naked truth.

It sticks in peoples minds because of two things...

1. It's comforting to imagine there was a "golden age" when stuff was better than it is now, and people you like to look down on knew their place. There's a letter from some inconsequential English Knight, a contemporary of Chaucer, from the mid 14th century, complaining to a friend about peasants, because he saw one walking down the street...

"wearing a gown of Bristow red where they would have gone clad in sack cloth as of old but for their pride and conspiracies"

The guy was harking back to the imaginary 'good old days' of this grandfather, when peasants knew their place.

2. Some people did make a lot of money, very publicly, such as that individual who became the first person in history to become an RL millionaire off virtual property speculation. Consider the 'grandfathering sale' last year. If you owned 1000 full private regions, paying almost $3,600,000 a year in tier, and charging your tenants $4,000,000 a year in rent, and you went to your bank manager and borrowed $600,000 to pay the grandfathering fee on all your regions, you'd save $1,200,000 a year in tier, could cut rental by $500,000 to boost rentals, and STILL be $700,000 a year better off before loan repayments.

When I came here 5  years ago, one of the large property rental companies was offering a 2 week free trial on a 1024 to all noobs, and boasting in their advertising that they owned over 3500 regions. Some people made and still make serious money in SL. 

It's like lottery tickets... "It could be you!"

This is why the property market on the mainland is so insane, all the little Madlander Max's trying to be "Leet Mainland Slumlords" or "Leet Land Portfolio Speculators".

It's why the Merchants Forum has posts from people who sell $5 worth of tat a week, pompously demanding to know if last weeks "slump in the  retail market" when they only sold $4 worth of tat, had been noticed by anyone else, and should they file a support ticket to LL to "Fix" the MP and give them their missing dollar.

Expectations based on Dreams of a Golden Age that Never Was, except for a very very few individuals...
 

[MoiraKathleen]

I joined in 2014, and it didn't take very long, or very much observation, to figure out that one would have to be very talented in something unique (or with a unique twist) in order to make any serious amount of money, and secondly, that it was easier to buy things than to figure out how to make everything yourself.  Still, I tried a lot of different things just for my own enjoyment and learning of skills.  I learned how to do very, very basic prim building (and had a little store for a couple of months, where I sold absolutely nothing), I set up a parcel as a rental with a house and some landscaping, learned how to use caspervend and smartbots to automate things - no one rented it, but it was fun and I increased my knowledge about things.  I had a little coffee house for awhile - it was fun to find things for it and get it all set up.  I didn't worry about whether or not there were visitors, or if they left tips (though that would have been a bonus!).  I enjoyed doing all of it, and I did it more for me, for my own entertainment value, than in thinking this was going to supplement my real life income in some way.  It's all a hobby for me, and I've learned how to set aside entertainment money in my budget for it, and am still able to enjoy the time (and money) I spend in SL. 

[Amanda Crisp]

Until recently when RL interfered with my schedule, I was hosting for Velvet Thorn and my time-slot was VERY European (which I liked very much).

[Rhonda Huntress]

VT!  I have not been there in ages.  I loved the atmosphere there.  They always had a strong euro presence when I was a regular.

[Amanda Crisp]

I really hated having to take a break from that job :-( The Theme was wonderful and my boss (Eve) was really great!

[Rhonda Huntress]

1 hour ago, SaturdayGeeks said:

Sadly more proof that SL is dying.

I know!

People tried to warn us back in 2006 that SL wouldn't last another year.

[Madelaine McMasters]

54 minutes ago, Rhonda Huntress said:

I know!

People tried to warn us back in 2006 that SL wouldn't last another year.

It's tough being years ahead of your time.

[Pamela Galli]

1 hour ago, Rhonda Huntress said:

I know!

People tried to warn us back in 2006 that SL wouldn't last another year.

Yes, but back then they merely had evidence. Now we have proof! 

[Skell Dagger]

1 hour ago, Rhonda Huntress said:

People tried to warn us back in 2006 that SL wouldn't last another year.

I joined back in 2007 and I missed the boat. SL was done! All those years of fun were just wasted memories. *dabs at his eyes* Sorry, I just get... all emotional about it.

3 hours ago, SaturdayGeeks said:

Sadly more proof that SL is dying.

*turns the record over*

*finds that it's the same song on the b-side*

[MoiraKathleen]

On 4/19/2017 at 11:14 AM, Skell Dagger said:

I joined back in 2007 and I missed the boat. SL was done! All those years of fun were just wasted memories. *dabs at his eyes* Sorry, I just get... all emotional about it.

I came in 2014, so it was really on it's last breathe by then...   

I'm sure it's not the same as it was in the  very early years. I've read a lot about the early years, in forum archives and blog archives, and I would hazard a guess that it has matured since what sounded to me like 'wild west' type days (from what I was reading).  I find it interesting that it has existed long enough, and changed enough, that some people experience 'in the good old days' type nostalgia.  Places, shops, clubs....  it is natural that these will change over time - people change, get older, change interests, move on (sometimes from RL as well)...  but there are new places, shops and clubs that keep popping up.    

I understand about the gradual decline in number of sims over the past years, but I don't know that I would qualify that as 'dying'.  To me, when the day comes that LL is no longer making changes or adding new features and benefits, that will be when I would consider it dying.  The entire time that I have been here LL has continued making improvements, adding or modifying features and updating the viewer.   There are some, who make look at that with a cynical eye, and call it life support or CPR, but to me it shows that LL has not given up on it and has not abandoned it. 

I think some of the 'another sign it's dying' stuff is, in part, a perspective that is only focusing on the things that support that perspective.  As was noted, the song's the same on the flip side.

[Dura Juran]

In 2007 it was dance clubs, dance clubs and everywhere else dance clubs, you couldn't move for empty dance clubs.

Where did everyone go?

They discovered sims were available outside of mainland. The place got so big, you never had to endure the displeasure of coming across anyone else.

Second life was a world made by it's users, to the displeasure of Linden Lab. We've had the era of word police and the Zindra segregation.

It was ten years of fun with avatars, prims and a few measly dollars made on the way. But the old Lindens have gone.

This new generation want rid of me, for reasons only they seem to know.

 

The pioneering spirit has faded.

The tendrils of a new darkness are coming for us.

It will be second life in name only.

 

At least until it stops making money and they pull the plug.

 

 

[Michaelatv Destiny]

Well, since I started this thread, at least one good thing happened. The stung UK users are getting 1.30$ for our 1 GBP, thanks to Trumps mishandling of his countries finance. With that in  mind I have found A Homestead with all estate perks for a competitive 6999L$....Thats £22 a week at the current rate, and that's affordable, especially with the extra prims.  LL doesn't understand their own policy of floating the L$ works both ways. Lindens have made millions, from NOT their platform, but from  the community's creations at large. 

By today's gaming platforms standards, Second  Life  remains a bit of a dinosaur, with grids which are 6 years past their sell by date. A lot of improvements still to be made at little cost to LL. 

namely, stopping the punitive charge for uploading a photo.

More affective way of dealing with griefers and abuse.

re working the 10 second ridiculous  audio upload into 2 minutes playing time at least, would help many, like me, who make, buy or sell Audio sounds, which is almost impossible in  10 seconds.

Some people say there is still good places. Well , I used to have many friends in urban combat sims, and  (Avatar-Pandora) where I was well known as admin, moderator and once a mentor. But LL has let the biggest Community completely fall, which  WAS NOR Remembrance, which consisted of 12 sims. The last remaining sim, which in its heyday you had to wait up to 10 minutes to get into, shockingly closed, after problems with owners AND LL refusing to budge on  some legal matter. Games should NOT involve politics or anything to do with legalities. In total LL  acquiring an income of 4,800US$ from the buyers of those sims, together with maintenance charges, these 12 sims provided a huge income.  Now all that is left is empty space!!

While LL artificially keeps the cost of sim owner ship and rental prices up, instead of down to previous levels, in keeping with normal game playing subscriptions and costs, and not taking into account that Finance In the EU is nothing like The Californian Bubble they work in visitor numbers will continue to decline. France for instance, has a 10% unemployment rate. How do you drag hard up Parisians into renting or buying land or even buy the best Slink or Katwa head, when most can't afford even a phone line, let alone a fast Broadband connection.

 

In closing, I remember the days me and My Friend Susan spent, on an empty homestead or full sim,  HOPING we would win the right to get it. because hunting for an empty sim back before LL savagely upped the land rates, You had competition from three other interested parties, standing on the same land hoping to buy it.   Now, the place is awash with hundreds if not thousands of sims for rent or sale, and never in the last 7 years have I had to sway an owner to let us have it over someone else.

The other thing that still worry's me, is Linden labs allowance of extreme content.  In my country of the UK, Zoophilia or doggy sex,  is illegal to see, download or take part in, either real or simulated. The new Digital age Act introduced last year, makes it illegal to interact even with pixel simulated Zoophilia, But Lindens reject any complaints, that some countries citizens are at risk from being found prosecuted by the new abuse technology centres, that can flag up what you are doing online.  In the end, like face Book, LL will have to toe the line, or face government actions and huge fines for allowing or actively encouraging an illegal act.   i'm Hopeful, with the UK Pound up again, but not as high as 1.49$ - 1£ will encourage more of my old UK friends to return.

 

[Dura Juran]

12 hours ago, Michaelatv Destiny said:

new abuse technology centres, that can flag up what you are doing online.

"The world declares it double plus good that the ministry of sex is protecting us."

Long live big brother!

Long live big brother!

Long live big brother!