Dillon Levenque Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Mags Indigo wrote: Hmmm lots and lots of comments... as the discussion has progressed I feel the 'issue' that I'm finding most intriguing is the one of... Is lying to an SL girlfriend/boyfriend/partner about your status in RL actually a form of cheating? Now I'm not talking about straight RP, or 'just friends' - I mean getting involved with someone in SL in an intimate, sharing secrets, getting all romantic sort of way. What I'm most interested in is how people in SL 'really' see the people they share pixel space with - as mere playbuddies not to be taken seriously, as real people but as we'll never meet them we can lie/cheat and it doesn't matter - or somewhere in between or different. Lying to an SL girlfriend/boyfriend/partner about your status in RL is lying. Don't know as I'd class it as cheating. Well, maybe, I would. If you establish a relationship with someone in SL and let them think—or flat-out tell them—you have no RL relationship, then you'd be cheating on them every time you were with your RL girlfriend/boyfriend/partner. Did you really think you would delve this deeply into the souls of your fellow forumites when you started this thread, Mags? Not that I'm complaining. I like it. ETA: Once again I seem to have deleted one too many division lines. I'll get this all figured out eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mags Indigo Posted April 14, 2011 Author Share Posted April 14, 2011 Pep wrote: Pep (replied: "If you believe anything anyone tells you in SL you are doomed to disappointment and drama; and you'll deserve every second of it.") Even if that were true it doesn't actually answer the question. So many times on SL - and increasingly so in RL too - the 'victims' of lies, cheating and frauds are held responsible for falling for the scam. Where as one might wish people would 'wise up' if no one believed anything anyone told them we really would have a funny old world with really odd people. I'm one of those strange people who still believe that the person who tells the lie, cheats or commits fraud remains the 'bad guy' as it were - not the gullible victim. Mind you the 7th time a 'victim' falls for the same old line one has to wonder do they actually get their own personal kicks from the drama involved. Now back to that wee point about how people actually 'see' the people they share pixel space with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mags Indigo Posted April 14, 2011 Author Share Posted April 14, 2011 Dillon Levenque wrote: <big snip> Did you really think you would delve this deeply into the souls of your fellow forumites when you started this thread, Mags? Not that I'm complaining. I like it. I've always been intrigued by people and how we react and interact. SL sometimes almost allows a mini social study because everything is so 'compressed'. I really do find it interesting how people behave on the forums - but especially inworld. It's as if some (not all of course) can really convince themselves that they are not sharing space with other human minds at all but some sort of animate cartoon. This allows the permission to behave as flippantly or even 'badly' as one wants and not only will there be no consequence but no guilt, remorse or even a hint of self doubt. I really do find it fascinating how adults can quickly regress to being... well spoilt kids I guess. Of course SL is also peopled with some of the most wonderful people who genuinely try their best to 'do no harm' and keep their codes of behaviour in tact. And again I want to stress I'm not making judgements - SL is a fantasy world and people can use it as they wish - I'm just 'interested'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mags Indigo Posted April 14, 2011 Author Share Posted April 14, 2011 Pep wrote: @Mags: You are, of course, quite at liberty to believe in and operate in accordance with your own morality . . . Pep ( . . . but you are not entitled to impose it upon anyone else; if you use the word "bad" then be aware that it is only you that understands what it means.) Ok I totally accept that not everyone will see people who lie, cheat and commit fraud as bad guys or even bad. The fact that I stated I do is merely a personal foible not to be confused with me imposing my morality on anyone else - heaven forfend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Yardley Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Being a liar, cheater and having affairs IS wrong. And yes, I can and will impose my morality on everyone. But you don't have to listen to me If everyone did as I told them to all men would have short hair, wear 1930s suits, fly spitfires and say "Ding Dong, I say, rather, tally-ho" a lot. PS I met Sir Hopkins once, and I would not at all be surprised if he indeed is a cannibal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Yardley Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 I just imposed that opinion on you I have a reputation? Yes I know about the RAF I'm a Historic consultant, dated flyboys and have seen QI Did you know about vikings not having horns on their helmets? Oh history, best subject ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mags Indigo Posted April 14, 2011 Author Share Posted April 14, 2011 Pep wrote: @Mags: I suppose you think that Sir Anthony Hopkins is a cannibal too? Pep (Get real; SL is a cartoon world filled with lots of people that lie, cheat and steal - and a few that cry about it.) Actually if you read my orignal post I was referring to RL too... oh and even in a virtual world commiting fraud is still a crime - even if it would be difficult to take to court. Regarding your comments about my intelligence/perception I will allow you to fantasise all you want as you so love doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinn Morani Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Pep wrote: @Mags: I suppose you think that Sir Anthony Hopkins is a cannibal too? Pep (Get real; SL is a cartoon world filled with lots of people that lie, cheat and steal - and a few that cry about it.) It's also filled with some very caring, honest people that I've have the great honor and privilege to get to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Souther Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Hi Mags! =] I have so many thoughts on this topic, I would end up with tl:dr .... I'd love to discuss it in world sometime, as it is an interesting and complex topic- imho. Bottom line, I do not think being single in SL is a bad thing, nor do I think it is boring. I have made some very good friends and I enjoy spending time with them, as well as the things I do on my own. If I were bored, I wouldn't keep coming back for more! :smileywink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kattatonia Wickentower Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Dr. Peter Venkman: I'm fuzzy on the whole good/bad thing. What do you mean "bad"? Dr. Egon Spengler: Try to imagine all life as you know it stopping instantaneously, and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light. Dr. Raymond Stantz: Total protonic reversal! Dr. Peter Venkman: Right, that's bad. Okay, alright, important safety tip, thanks Egon. I do think that having a spouse in RL and having a partner in SL is cheating. And I do think that cheating is a bad thing. But here's the thing, when I first came to SL, I was married in RL. The marriage was in deep trouble and I am now divorced. I found the relationships I formed in SL were much more intense and satisfying than my RL marriage, and while I didn't come to SL intending to cheat on my then husband, I found myself doing so. I never would have considered cheating in RL but somehow I fell down the slippery slope in SL. So I guess I was bad. Now I am divorced so that bad thing is gone. But my SL partner is married in RL. And so I guess I am still bad, and still tortured by it. But somehow I can't give up my partner. I'm not going to pretend that what I'm doing is OK, but I'm not ready to stop either. I am pretty honest about who I am but I don't think that means I should be excused for the bad things I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Levenque Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 kattatonia Wickentower wrote: Dr. Peter Venkman: I'm fuzzy on the whole good/bad thing. What do you mean "bad"? Dr. Egon Spengler: Try to imagine all life as you know it stopping instantaneously, and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light. Dr. Raymond Stantz: Total protonic reversal! Dr. Peter Venkman: Right, that's bad. Okay, alright, important safety tip, thanks Egon. I do think that having a spouse in RL and having a partner in SL is cheating. And I do think that cheating is a bad thing. But here's the thing, when I first came to SL, I was married in RL. The marriage was in deep trouble and I am now divorced. I found the relationships I formed in SL were much more intense and satisfying than my RL marriage, and while I didn't come to SL intending to cheat on my then husband, I found myself doing so. I never would have considered cheating in RL but somehow I fell down the slippery slope in SL. So I guess I was bad. Now I am divorced so that bad thing is gone. But my SL partner is married in RL. And so I guess I am still bad, and still tortured by it. But somehow I can:smileyhappy:'t give up my partner. I'm not going to pretend that what I'm doing is OK, but I'm not ready to stop either. I am pretty honest about who I am but I don't think that means I should be excused for the bad things I do. Gutsy and honest. Nice. You're right, it can be very difficult to arrive at a decision but to my mind the most important thing is to be honest with yourself and clearly you are. Thank you for the quotes at the start. It need hardly be said that any friend of Dr. Venkman is a friend of mine:smileyhappy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mags Indigo Posted April 14, 2011 Author Share Posted April 14, 2011 We (as people) quite often find ourselves doing something which we inherently 'know' to be wrong, that doesn't make us bad people - it makes us imperfect humans. I know of many people in SL in your situation - people I like and respect. What people 'do' isn't really the issue/concept I'm kicking about here - it's how people think about what they do. I think you're a pretty in tact person. Better an imperfect human than an unfeeling machine any day in my book. And right now you're not actually 'cheating' though your SL partner is - I've always wondered about the propensity of people to blame the single person for extramarital affairs when in reality they are not the ones who made the promise of fidelity or whatever. I hope things work out for you in both worlds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillie Woodells Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 I agree with Quinn, but it's also filled with bullies like you. Why must you insult and poke and pinch and bite at everyone whose views you do not agree on? You make reading otherwise, nice and thoughtful posts very acidic. I really do not understand how people like you think. You must be a very very unhappy man. As Quinn stated, I've met wonderful people here. I'm single in SL and RL. I've seen people bounce from partner to partner in SL, but I've seen that in RL as well. On a personal level, I would not want to have an intimate relationship in SL with a person who was not single in RL. Though it is a "cartoon world" there are real people behind those avatars, whether you like it or not. Lillie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mags Indigo Posted April 14, 2011 Author Share Posted April 14, 2011 Any time Cali - give me a poke but be warned I talk/type a lot and I tend towards bluntness :smileyhappy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiaKiwi Daysleeper Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 I myself am single in sl. I have partnered once before but I personaly made the mistake of taking it rl. I think SL is a balancing act. Balancing the game and the intamacy of relationship. I love my sl friends and I consider my sl "children" both adult and child avi alike. I enjoy being single. It makes being a dancer easier when you do not have somone hanging around your pole getting angry that you are flirting with all the men and women around you. Plus sl is more fun when you are single. Think of all the fun you have when everyone can flirt and spoil you. Not to mention the spoils my kids get from the admirers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mags Indigo Posted April 14, 2011 Author Share Posted April 14, 2011 Now you don't make being single sound a bit boring :smileyhappy: I'm glad your SL is working out well for you these days... keep having fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willow Danube Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Hello, Single people out there.... Just think about it.. we can do whatever the hell we want with our love life and be with whoever we want to be... I can tell you, there are many married people out there that wishes they are single so they can be with their SL love without any restriction. I say, we are lucky because our possibilities are NOT LIMITED within SL and we do not have the worry of hurting our spouse/partner/bf or worst, the children. The smell of Freedom is not 'bad' but exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiaKiwi Daysleeper Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 WOOT WOOT hell yea. I say be proud to be single and have your fun. WOOT WOOT to singles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinn Morani Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Mags Indigo wrote: We (as people) quite often find ourselves doing something which we inherently 'know' to be wrong, that doesn't make us bad people - it makes us imperfect humans. <snip> Better an imperfect human than an unfeeling machine any day in my book. What Mags said. A million percent what Mags said. When I said earlier in this thread that I'm not comfortable imposing my values on others and that I will never judge others for the choices they make, this is what I really meant to say. I just didn't know it. As for the real question Mags is trying to get at, "how people actually 'see' the people they share pixel space with...", I can't reply from the romantic/sexual relationship viewpoint, but I can offer my perspective on my relationships with friends. Aside from the feelings I reserve for Zeke, I feel many of the same emotions in SL that I do in RL. I am touched by caring people. I am inspired by meaningful conversation. I feel compassion for people in tough circumstances. I erupt in laughter at hilarious antics. I let myself be the subject of good-natured ribbing. I care about being a loyal, trustworthy, and trusted friend. The bottom line for me is that I care about the people I spend time with. I can't not do that. I can't separate SL from RL the way some people can. The people I interact with may look like pixels on the screen, but they have real hearts and real minds, and, for me, it would feel callous to ignore that. I could never ignore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillie Woodells Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Beautifully put Quinn! You have reflected exactly how I feel as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marigold Devin Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 @ Mags, this has been the most interesting thread ever started as far as I'm concerned. I'd reached a stage in my Second Life where I was feeling that everyone had lost their moral compass. @ Quinn, you sum it up nicely. While I can separate RL and SL, the two are linked, and my values and concerns are the same in both worlds. I am always aware there is a person behind the avatar; the personality always shines through. @ Kattatonia. Your honesty was very refreshing, and I don't envy the position you are currently in, although, in real life, many years ago, I was in a similar situation. I was feeling tortured because I was having an affair with a married man. There was none of the "my wife doesn't understand me" malarkey, we just got along as friends and ended up spending a lot of time together. I think his wife even knew he was spending time with me. However, there's a line that is crossed, and it's just never a good thing to spend the main part of your time with just one person, especially if it divides their loyalties or yours. I'm not going to attempt to advise you on what I think you should do. You know what you need to do, and I wish you tons of luck. @ Pep, I'll give you the bit of attention you constantly seek. I hate the way that you often make me laugh out loud, but in this thread, your comments just seem inappropriate. @ Jo - I give you 10 Kudos for the historical information and great wit when handling the club mascot there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mags Indigo Posted April 14, 2011 Author Share Posted April 14, 2011 Thanks for stepping in with your thoughts Marigold. This thread is taking on a life of it's own, so much though I'd like to take credit for that I can't. I too find the thoughts people have contributed here to be insightful and most important - human. I love when people actually 'talk' and share ideas rather than trying to score points - for that there are so many people on this thread I want to thank. Quinn usually sums up things nicely and I am so chuffed at how honest people can be. As has been said so many times - this isn't about imposing morals or anything else - just a discussion about how people in/on SL see the people they associate with. I too become weary of the 'it's just a game and if someone doesn't see it like that and allows themselves to get hurt that's their problem'. It is if people have been up front and honest about what they are willing/able to give or share - other than that - it's just another excuse. Or I could be wrong of course... Perish the thought! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Levenque Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Mags Indigo wrote: This thread is taking on a life of it's own, so much though I'd like to take credit for that I can't. Oh, go ahead. Take it. :smileyhappy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kattatonia Wickentower Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 @ Mags and @Marigold, Thanks for your generous understanding of my imperfections - i do agree - it's better to imperfect than unfeeling. Still, I wish I were a bit stronger. @Dillon "who ya gonna call?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Mimulus Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 I've been SL partnered twice now (single in RL both times) The first time was for love/romance. There was even talk of me moving across the pond to be with her. The second (although i had great feelings for her) was more of a marriage of convenience. I always knew that partnering was doomed to fail, as she is married in RL. Her RL husband also uses SL & was fully aware of the relationship and even approved ..... I guess it helps that he is my RL best friend (but i digress) I've also had a couple of unpartenered relationships ... these seem to burn very brightly, but fade just as quickly I feel now that at the ripe old age of (nearly) 3 .... with a few failed relationships & 2 failed partnerings behind me, i am about ready for the proverbial shelf. Sure i have an abundance of friends ... but for me personally, i think the romantic side of SL is over. I have my other interests to keep me occupied ... be it building (not very good, but it keeps me out of trouble) DJing (well, streaming my own music into SL) or my HUD based, medieval land buying game (no names mentioned, but those who play it know what i'm talking about ... if you WANT to know, give me a shout inworld:smileyhappy: ) Edit To Add: Wow that was theraputic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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