Elrik Merlin Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 I'm not sure how good "going mobile" is proving for Blue Mars. Anyone got any stats? They seem to have sunk out of sight by and large. I'm looking for immersion. Phones are fine for comms and perhaps for some limited types of gaming but a tiny handheld is not exactly immersive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenni Darkwatch Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Void Singer wrote: well somthing has to render the content, since it's dynamic and not static, so for low powered devices, that would have to be cloud rendering of some sort. (which will need to be paid for by someone) and while they may be able to handle a yuotube video of a few minutes, anything more is going to cost in bandwidth (more cash), as well as power consumption (tech limitation for mobile computing)... and still be squeezed into a relatively small space... I think anyone trying to queeze SL's dynamic world into that sort of microsm just isn't realizing that that it doesn't work like that... certain content and paradigms require certain resources, and mobile tech just doesn't have it yet. and trying to cram SL into that tiny add living in clip paradigm will never work.... it can't handle the level of dynamicism involved. I'm not entirely convinced that SL on mobile platforms like tablets would take off in the long run - if nothing else it might generate some good publicity. As I said, I believe for such devices "augmented reality" will become much more popular sometime down the road. For the time being I'd stay away from cloud rendering, it's still a fair bit too experimental. On the other hand, a lot of people who _do_ have tablets still have their desktop PCs collecting dust. Why not use them for rendering? The additions to the client aren't any more difficult than adding this new ill-implemented basic mode. The latency would, I think, be tolerable for the visuals. SL isn't a First Person Shooter after all, even if some use it for that. fire every employee that gets hit with malware... seriously? well now we know how a hacker could both shut down any company you are running, and cherry pick head hunt your best people while they're at it.... In our case, we have a simple policy: You don't open an attachment unless it came from within the company. Spreadsheets and word processing documents get converted to our standardized document format at ingress, a process that kills common malware and would require a lot of inside knowledge to bypass. Any other kind of attachment is strictly prohibited on the corporate network, should one make it through (hasn't happened in the last few years). Emails are the weakest spot, so there's enough levels of protection there to provide a reasonable level of safety. The only web pages that are directly accessible from work PCs are work-related intranet pages. Safe use of work PCs gets taught twice a year to every employee with any kind of partial Internet access, once a year to everyone else. We have two networks - one for internal use, no direct Internet access, one for full web access (i.e. not the same as full Internet access) from a sandboxed environment that's open to everyone. The sandboxes do get trashed by malware once in a blue moon. Since sandboxes have no persistence beyond the session, no biggie. Full Internet access is also available if people bring their own hardware in, something which we generally allow to employees in good standing. After another training session, of course. Thus, yes, if someones work PC gets hit with malware, they did something that violated policy. And hence they don't need to come back the next day. So far, that has happened twice. In both cases the PCs were killed automatically before any harm was done. Maybe it sounds draconian, but with sensitive information in our databases it's simple necessity. There's still one vector that allows successful theft of that data. The boss doesn't believe thieves can get into secure data facilities, despite proof to the contrary. ~shrug~ At least "breaking in" was a fun distraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Hird Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Elrik Merlin wrote: I'm not sure how good "going mobile" is proving for Blue Mars. Anyone got any stats? They seem to have sunk out of sight by and large. I'm looking for immersion. Phones are fine for comms and perhaps for some limited types of gaming but a tiny handheld is not exactly immersive. Don't have any stats, but they seem to be pretty happy about it, and by making that client, they became accessible on 120 million iOS devices (iPod Touch, iPhone and iPad.) Regarding immersion; Immersion basically sits in your head in this context. I can think of multiple role plays going on in SL where having SL reach into your pocket would add to the overall immersion, yeah? ... that all the way up to more mundane tasks such as sim and store management for those who run a business in here. Also remember that the latest iPad2 has more processor both in terms of raw cpu and graphics than the first laptop I used to access SL when I started back in 2007. The overall requirements for rendering core SL has not been dramatically changed since then. They can also output video to a 1080p display. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenni Darkwatch Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Totally agreed. If they want to expand, they need to find new markets. Your idea of licensing the grid software is great, as long as they don't do it the ridiculous way they tried with behind-the-firewall solutions Kingdon backed. The HyperGrid project seems to be very much dead though. An idea... how about licensing pre-installed "sims" to SL members in good standing? I.e. with verified RL info on file, NDA signed, but hooked to the SL asset servers for a lower monthly fee? It'd offload bandwidth costs from LL, might be an idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Hird Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Jenni Darkwatch wrote: Totally agreed. If they want to expand, they need to find new markets. Your idea of licensing the grid software is great, as long as they don't do it the ridiculous way they tried with behind-the-firewall solutions Kingdon backed. The HyperGrid project seems to be very much dead though. An idea... how about licensing pre-installed "sims" to SL members in good standing? I.e. with verified RL info on file, NDA signed, but hooked to the SL asset servers for a lower monthly fee? It'd offload bandwidth costs from LL, might be an idea. I am sure there will be SL residents interested in spawning off grids based on the LL software if the terms are reasonable, but in principle such licensed software should be available to anyone in the same manner as Oracle or other middleware you find in the market. There would be no other association with Linden Lab of course (for both legal, commercial and branding reasons). Portable inventories are important, because going to another grid otherwise feels like totally starting over again. This is true both for regular residents as it is for content creators. It is stifling both because developers are struggling to recreate their stuff, and residents are reluctant to re-purchase goods they already paid for. It also means significant time is spent on non-inovation and it may even lead to content theft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenni Darkwatch Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 ~chuckle~ Sounds familiar. In a former life, I did some pentesting. It was always fun to prove just how easy it is to take a company down. Sometimes it's as easy as confidently walking into an office, grabbing the server, and walking out with some mumblings of "maintenance, will be right back". Your anecdote doesn't have enough info to really tell, but sounds to me like someone in IT "forgot" to enable host isolation. I hope they at least had departmental subnet isolation. Either way, in this case IT blew it. Royally. Along with the division boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenni Darkwatch Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Back on topic, just stumbled across this: http://www.kurzweilai.net/virtual-conferencing-using-3d-avatars-may-be-imminent The article felt to me like someone really missed the boat. Or maybe lived in a cave in the last 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrius Gothly Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Jenni Darkwatch wrote: ~chuckle~ Sounds familiar. In a former life, I did some pentesting. It was always fun to prove just how easy it is to take a company down. Sometimes it's as easy as confidently walking into an office, grabbing the server, and walking out with some mumblings of "maintenance, will be right back". Your anecdote doesn't have enough info to really tell, but sounds to me like someone in IT "forgot" to enable host isolation. I hope they at least had departmental subnet isolation. Either way, in this case IT blew it. Royally. Along with the division boss. (walk in confidently ... that's how we used to get finish dress panels for hard drives .. back in the day when I was on the final QA floor and hard drives came in boxes the size of a full-size washing machine. LOL Yup, it works!) The primary reason it happened is because it came in through the "big guy's" computer. He'd pulled rank and demanded IT give him full access because "I know better." (Sound familiar?) So while IT didn't official "blow it" .. they DID get fired. IT was under contract from a very large and well-known IT based company .. until that afternoon. Now they have a different 3rd party handling their needs ... and the boss has a netbook. *GRIN* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrius Gothly Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 I've been mulling this whole concept of "The Future Path of Second Life" for quite some time .. but this thread has brought those thoughts back to the surface some. I guess it's no secret that I'm an old farrr ... ummm .. dude, and some of the new tech toys just don't make sense to me. Yeah, I can comprehend the appeal of having a smart-phone with lots of data handy and an intuitive UI. But some of the apps they are targeting .. or at least dreaming will show up on those things .. ummm, nah. As Elrik said earlier ... I'm looking for immersion when it comes to Second Life. I want not just to simulate a cartoon version of a postage stamp rendition of virtual reality, I want my palms to sweat when I leap off a platform at 4000m, I want my heart to near thump out of my chest when I look out across an amazing alien landscape .. and I want my muscles to relax and loosen as I stretch out on a warm beach at the end of my day. Somehow holding that beach or landscape in the palm of my hand just don't cut it. BUT ... those are only a small part of the things I do in SL. As a Merchant (and unrepentant chatter), a lot of what I do could just as easily be stuffed in my pants pocket. Social interaction without all the rich detail of an immersive experience is something that can be implemented on a mobile device .. AND it would meet a lot of the needs of most users too. In fact, with the penchant for texting today, it might even be the "Gateway App" that brings the FB and other social media brats .. errr .. users into Second Life. After you establish a hook here, get connected and begin to share with newfound (and hopefully oldfound) friends, the desire to "Go deep" grows and grows until finally you plant yourself at your full-power desktop with that super hot gamer rated video card .. and really dive in. And then .. WE GOTCHA!! Mwaaahahahahaaaa!! So I guess I'm thinking the push to "Go Mobile" can be good, as long as we understand what mobile can do, and why it is something people want. IMHO the Basic Viewer is too much and too little all at once. Give me a basic Chat Interface with all the Social Media hooks to lure me in and get me interested (and skilled in the lingo), but then give me a way to step through the Magic Mirror too .. and keep everything I've already created (friends, groups, etc.) while enriching it with a full blown super immersive Exp-OMG-erience! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Eliot Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 My Personal thoughts are that the concurrency is related to the changing face of communication within SL. Alot of the inworld communicating has moved out to things such as facebook, twitter and blogs. What Linden Lab could try and do to reverse this trend is to rework the way we communicate and share our experiences of SL, Give us more reason to be IN second Life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda Brynner Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Not exactly surprising. SL is at a steady drop since it's hype in 2007, it was still steady at 2008, but then the decline emerged bit by bit. One of the biggest reasons is that prices for 3D spaces are really rediculious while prices of high quality servers have much more than halved. Alternate SL like grids have taken over concurrency for that reason. Another major reason is of it's bad image, well here in Europe at least you are never going to say you are in SL. And then the inworld experience: way too much land for too low concurrency. Trying to find people is like walking on Long Island with only around 60k people present... Try find them lol. SL makes is very, very difficult to actually find busy places that are not traffic gamed or empty. The destination guide places are all deserted. No quality build-in AO. We can't swim, hug, kiss, shake hands, use several sitting and laying poses... etc etc etc from the beginning we arrive in SL. We STILL have these silly starter gestures from an old era. SL isn't fit for gaming either. The whole thing is... the prices are way too high for an too empty and technically hardly evolved experience.... sad. The only thing LL seems to worry about is their earning model (regions x tier) and to keep what they have, around 70 mill. income per year on tier alone. That is their sole interest... sad. And not to forget that a lot of communication between friends have gone to FB and Twitter actually. In my friendslist at least all of them except just a few. Sadly LL doesn't provide much reason to be inworld. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 A new CEO from a gaming environment. A new engineering team. A kung-fu marketeer. Maybe, Linda, the issues you mention above are going to go away. Maybe. I think LL needs to innovate within their own environment - maybe they are on the right road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astringofcharacters Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 : A posthumous comment (relevant, I think, to the question of declining concurrency) from a former resident: I owe Second Life an immense debt of gratitude. It gave me first an escape and then, albeit inadvertently, a new direction. The fantasy world it provided took me away from morbid obsessions fed elsewhere on the internet. And when I was eventually banished to other, lesser grids, I was able to use nascent SL skills to actually become a fledgling creator - so busy with my little shops and products that I no longer had time for morbidity. A few things did dampen my SL experience before the curtain fell. Chiefly, they were the introduction of user/display names, which changed the tone drastically, surrounding me with people who liked, apparently, calling themselves things like SexySue19 or Pu$$yforSale (not to mention contrivances like "Astringofcharacters"); the introduction of web profiles, replete with links to other web pages, that obliterated the screen and took me out of Second Life into multi-tasking web surfing - no wonder half the avatars I approached were oblivious: their typists were busy on some other page. "Social networking," presumably. Then there was the tortuous integration of the teens, who had to be shielded from blue and pink balls; amid the moral panic we all had to clean up our thoughts. Every innovation seemed like another attempt to water things down enough to be palatable to the masses. But why protest? If Second Life has receded from its ideal of a libertarian realm of the imagination to entrench itself as the Virtual Empire is that not the way of the world? Every little grid out there speaks its llatin and uses its relics. Let misfits and outcasts be grateful for the legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 They are making it too easy..now instead of a big turn rate at the start level they are having a big turn rate at start and veteran levels.. things were hard and not user friendly..but those that did join stayed for years.. LL we don't do things because they are easy..we do them because they are hard..easy is boring hard is gripping and excites the mind and addicts us.. We chose to go to the moon!!! now you bring us back home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeWillian Wylie Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Grandma still says we were only out in the dessert...not on the moon..:smileytongue: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 well if you guys would have not been hanging around out in the desert you may have made it back in time to go to the moon :smileytongue: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrius Gothly Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Hey .. not our fault! Once those little gray guys in the silver jumpsuits start telling stories about "back home" .. it's downright spell-binding. My gosh .. there's times I could swear I've lost a whole day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeWillian Wylie Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Can't help it..Grandma was a big Burning Man fan...and peyote...that too.. :smileyvery-happy: :smileytongue: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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