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70,000 traffic score and all I found was 40 bots sitting in a corner at a hight of 3800 meters. They don't even all render for the photo... 

And how did I know they were all bots? They all had the same 4 names with different numbers at the end.

So I'm finding it really hard to find active people in second life when search functions rely on traffic scores scewed by bots. Even most 'popular destinations' provided by Liden Labs usually has 0 people on them. 

Thoughts?

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First, how did you manage to get into the sim since most sims are set to a max of 40 players in a sim?

Try the Destination guide or look on your dashboard at secondlife.com. Towards the bottom there is a section called upcoming events. Check out the Live Music and Nightlife/entertainment. One of my favorites is Big Daddy's 80's club. They always have a live DJ and are busy. The people there like to talk.

 

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Mistress69Nikita wrote:

Well, the fish was thiiiis big and I didn't count them. It still remains that there were allot of them

As for events... my searches return things like:

now hiring or L$50 skybox rentals... they aren't actually events but advertisements for something someone is selling

 

 

if it are bots or not is of no concern.. bots aren't forbidden....

Perhaps they are parts of a game... you don't know

 

as for your search... use better keywords, or join some groups inworld that are made for clubs.. there are hundreds...

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Alwin Alcott wrote:

if it are bots or not is of no concern.. bots aren't forbidden....

True but bots are only allowed if they are registered as scripted agents and then they shouldn't count towards the traffic.

Then again, an easy way around that is to use alts rather than bots. You don't need enither a human nor a computer to control an avatar that is jsut sitting still in the air.

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Mistress69Nikita wrote:

Thoughts?

I've seen a similar picture before: a skybox crammed full of newbie avatars. ;)

My first thought: Linden Lab isn't very keen on doing anything about it since those avis increase their traffic count too.

Second thought: As I write this there are 33,124 accounts logged on to Second Life. I wonder how many actual human (and extraterrestial) beings there are. It wouldn't surprise me if the actual number of users is less than half the official one. We'll never know of course.

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ChinRey wrote:

True but bots are only allowed if they are registered as scripted agents and then they shouldn't count towards the traffic.

 

Yes...but OP shouts bots... but there is no way for a resident to see that, registered can't be checked..

Also nobody here knows that land has enough real traffic to get such high score, and don't those bots count towards it at all.

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No, you are right, there is no way to verify

The only thing we have to go on is the absence of people in the sim and them all having the same names (see OP).

This, to me, is evidence enough when going to sim after sim and seeing very few people in them. Something is disrupting the 2nd life search engine, because there 'are' people using public sims yet doesn't seem to find them. 

A red herring if you will, and I'm just interested in people's thoughts on the matter.

It's annoying that there are no easy ways to find people in second life. In place of a hard method, there are a number of half measures one can take that have a very small percentage of sucess.

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Alwin Alcott wrote:

Also nobody here knows that land has enough real traffic to get such high score,

Yes we do actually. I took a quick look at a popular beach that is nearly always full (20-22 since it's a Homestead) and hardly ever below 15. Those are people who actually do things there and if I understand correctly that means they count for more than idle avatars. Traffic count: 25,000. There is asolutely no way the sim the OP mentioned can have a 70,000 traffic count unles the avatars in the air do count.

Even so, I can think of at least two ways to keep a huge bunch of idle traffic count increasing avatars in a sim without technically violating anything in the ToS.

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Mistress69Nikita wrote:

It's annoying that there are no easy ways to find people in second life. In place of a hard method, there are a number of half measures one can take that have a very small percentage of sucess.

That is the key problem of course. All the official tools for finding the good places are hopelessly compromised in various ways.

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Mistress69Nikita wrote:

 

So I'm finding it really hard to find active people in second life when search functions rely on traffic scores scewed by bots. Even most 'popular destinations' provided by Liden Labs usually has 0 people on them. 

Thoughts?

The Destination Highlights on the login screen come to mind... See... LL's idea of "cool places everyone wants to visit" is often radically different from everybody's idea of cool places to visit.

 

So you'll get listings for hellakewl art installations, that get about 2 visitors a day, usually by accident. Or a hellakewl abandoned military bunker complex, thats a hellakewl place to take photos, assuming you WANT to take photos of your self against a backdrop of 50 yr old slabs of disintergrating cheap concrete...

 

And getting into the destination guide, is a tricky thing, and can involve visits from LL enforcers, who wander around like cheap hoodlums doing a protection racket...

"Yeah dis dance ball r looking very inflammable pal, we cant let you in the guide wif a cheapo dance ball like dat..."    "Ok, Ok, tell Hatchet Harry Linden I'll buy a damn intan..."   "dat r MISTER Hatchet Harry to you noob *punch"   "Argh!"

 

So... you might find some of the places either a big dissapointment or, nothing like what you expected.

 

If you just want to find crowds of people, open the world map, find the big mainland continents, and scroll about looking for lots of green dots (people) in areas that DO NOT have an info hub icon, and hey presto you will see where Mad Mainlanders gather... Some are clubs, some are events, some are stores, some have jello wrestling!

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Klytyna wrote:

The Destination Highlights on the login screen come to mind... See... LL's idea of "cool places everyone wants to visit" is often radically different from everybody's idea of cool places to visit.

 

So you'll get listings for hellakewl art installations, that get about 2 visitors a day, usually by accident. Or a hellakewl abandoned military bunker complex, thats a hellakewl place to take photos, assuming you WANT to take photos of your self against a backdrop of 50 yr old slabs of disintergrating cheap concrete...

 At least those are places that still exist. The place I checked from today's "What's Hot Now" closed down several years ago.

Speaking of the "What's Hot Now" list. Why did they remove Sion Chicken from it?

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ChinRey wrote:  

Speaking of the "What's Hot Now" list. Why did they remove Sion Chicken from it?


There's a place in the Adult section of the destination guide, that I know still exists, however the laid back open plan paving and pavillion social hangout in the preview picture, got bulldozed about 4 years ago, and replaced with a laggy primmy castle, thats decorated from floor to ceiling in boards advertising the sponsors goods, services, and personal foibles, and the social area now consists of some dance poles with unpaid amateur staff strippers on them auto greeting people with a scripted hud that doesn't understand display names or Resident names.

 

I remember when Bruno & Crusher Linden came there to renegotiate its "Destination Guide status". We regulars were all herded out of the way and the sim manager toured the fixed landing zone witrh the LL heavies, and they laid down what they and MISTER Hatchet Harry required...

 

Afterwards the sim manager filled the regulars in on the deal... for an Adult rated hangout on an Adult rated sim to remain in the guide, the picture had to contain NO indication that there was anything there that exceded the pg-biblebelt rating, and the sims management had to agree to pass and enforce a local bylaw forbidding any nudity whatsoever anywhere within 20 m of the landing point.

 

Bearing in mind this was a D/s themed social hangout, where many of the visitors would be 'half naked slave girls' the idea that they had to auto kick 70% of their traffic to stay in the guide wasn't popular.

 

They passed the bylaw, but didn't really enforce it, reasoning that Bruno & Crusher Linden, wouldn't be back with their illfitting suits and brass knuckles, for at least a couple of years...

 

Why do places get removed from the guide when they are still open and visited? Who knows these things...

 

Bruno & Crusher Linden, Enforcers by appointment, wrote : "MISTER Harry is very unhappy... *smack* * punch* *gouge* *kick* *stomp* Very unhappy in deed..."

 

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ChinRey wrote:


Second thought: As I write this there are 33,124 accounts logged on to Second Life. I wonder how many actual human (and extraterrestial) beings there are. It wouldn't surprise me if the actual number of users is less than half the official one. We'll never know of course.


Bots are so simple to create, and they can carry a huge benefit, especially for group maintenance. Has to be about 10K always in world. I have two of them to handle my groups and estate security. Most estates will have 1 or 2. A lot of stores have them now - like Fanatik and Cerberus Crossing to think of just 2 randomly.

Additionally there are the tracking hordes, such as the blake sea hordes that track who is in which sim. We also know of the roaming hordes.

During SIM reboots you can get an idea of the scale as each horde jumps to a predefined sim. There is one horde using a homestead opposite Hollywood Airport that fill the sim to it's 20 Maximum, blocking it for everyone.

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It's a really interesting question, and I guess for me it highlights another issue that people can have in SL.

It feels like traffic score is a good idea that is now easy to manipulate, and affects the people trying to search for places to socialise, meeting people, shop etc within Second Life.  But then again I believe anything that COULD be effective, soon becomes a tool that the majority use, and push so hard on that it loses the effect it SHOULD have.  I think we see it with other promotional techniques, such as gacha hunts, too many tags for an item in MP/for a place search/for a group search.  Not all of those are bad, but it becomes useless if they are overflooded.

I am in no way blaming traffic manipulation for this, sometimes I feel like the search tags are hilariously off (similar to Marketplace searches, where a place can have a list of 35 popular words, and really you would only describe it as perhaps 15 of those).  I also feel that the skewed and unsatisfying results causes people to get bored and restless with trying to find people to communicate with in Second Life.  For example, although many music clubs can be busy and full of people, I find that the reminders to *show some linden loving* *tip the DJ/host* *support the club* etc is a mental drain for me when 1) I lack lindens and 2) I want to chill out, not feel like money is important (it's kind of why I'm on SL- to ignore the pressures of IRL, not find more pressure).

As for better ways to find populated places.....I believe that there's some tactics that can help.

I believe that as an explorer, you can

~~~join groups of sims, and judge their socialbility there.  Sometimes they will insist the group is only for help or advertising events.  Sometimes the group won't even let people talk!!!  I can't stand those sorts of groups, but you can find ones that are friendly and lively.  Roleplaying and themed sims work well for this too.

~~~chat a lot to the people around you.  I suppose this seems obvious, sometimes I even speak just to let people know if I'm afk.  I believe that even a little bit of conversation can just break the ice for others to join in.  Open ended questions can really help with this too, such as *do you like this sim?* *do you know if there's any shops here?* *I like your hair* etc.

~~~I believe brainstorming, suggesting ideas, asking about events, etc within a group can be a really fun way of creating a community within a sim too.  I know a few sims who already do a lot of events, but it is also fun for the other members to sit and discuss ideas, what they sim could offer, they may even plan a mini-event for that day!  For example, a group of people may decide to dress up as cats, or they may decide to have a dance together day, or decide to wear red for Valentine's Day.  Again, this can be fun if the sim is themed, or part of an interest or hobby, and depending on the idea- it can be pretty cheap to execute.

For a land owner, there's various things to help with too:

~~~have a group for your sim (if it's a big sim!).  This means people can be discussing your land even when they aren't around, as well as advertising your events, etc.

~~~have fun events for your sim.  This doesn't have to be super expensive decorations and total transformations of the sim each time you do something.  It can be something as simple as having a board declaring *ROCK OUT FRIDAY*, with a featured DJ providing specific music, perhaps a little quiz object (like trivia ball- or even your own written quiz based on the theme), a dress up requirement and of course, your group announcing the event beforehand.  It doesn't have to be based on giving out lindens or items either, but that's an option that many sims do.

~~~A suggestions box.  This might help if you feel like you're not sure what to do to improve your sim/shop/land.  I'm sure it would also be handy if you need to deal with a lot of enquiries, and may not always be online for them to im.

~~~make your sim/shop/land a well organised space.  This might be a case of better structuring your walking paths, but just make sure that the landing spot is appealing, not too cluttered, shows off what your theme is all about, shows directions to various areas if it is a big sim or shop, and has walking distance to an area for socialising/dancing/etc.  The reason being, it can be a bit awkward if people are landing right in the middle of everything happening, it also gives an opportunity for advertising, shops, objects of interest (like donation jars, suggestion box, online boards, events boards, event announcement times and dates, etc) to be spread out in an area most people will see and read them, but that won't trip them up when they look for a place to sit/stand/dance/chat.

HOWEVER I'm not a landowner/shop owner so my advice many sound TOO simplistic.  I believe that the less obstacles you have for people to gather and make friends in your land or shop, the better.  I feel like keeping traffic is as much of a challenge as getting traffic, and most of the time people want to socialise.  So not just maintaining a nice place, but also as a visitor- recommending good places and being friendly and considerate at the places you DO enjoy, I believe that goes a long way.

These are simple things I can think of at the top of my head. They aren't so much ideas for finding better populated areas per say, but I find it helps with finding a community.  The hard part is maintaining that community spirit- as many bad apples can ruin the experience, and many places can stagnate, change in a negative way, move sims, change owner, close down, etc (not all of those are bad, simply that change can affect the flow and atmosphere of a place).  Bots, and the encouragement of bots, is something that is sure to be noticed in certain situations (especially social areas), so that is why I believe a lively group chat, and way of getting feedback, can really help with making the improvements that a sim may need OR bring people to a sim when events are on, people are gathered, etc.

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I don't believe a group that is maintained to announce events or things having to do with a venue should encourage a lot of chat in the group.  Not everyone wants their IM box dinging open every few minutes to see chat they don't care about.  I have left more than one group due to too much chat that distracts me from what I'm doing.  Turning off chat doesn't work for every group either. particularly large ones.

However, having an additional group just for the venue's community to chat in and to announce events etc in works .  That way people that want to chat have a place to do it, while those that don't want the chat just wouldn't join that group.

As for traffic, it is now just a small part of how items are listed in search.  Really any criteria LL comes up with is swiftly gamed and that is the problem. People fill their land description with just keywords, many of which have no relevance to the venue.  Also, the more people that have a venue in their profile picks the higher the venue is supposed to appear in search.  So now we have venue owners paying people weekly to have them in their profile or offering some weekly prize for it.  Profile picks should be based on what the person likes, not who the highest bidder is.  LL is supposed to enforce the policy that all bots must be registered so they don't count in any search criteria.  When they introduced this policy in meetings I attended LL said that they had a way of searching the grid for unregistered bots.  But it appears to me it's rarely enforced anymore, if at all.

If LL swiftly cracked down on these abuses and removed a venue from search that gamed the system either permanently or as a suspension for a period of time, then we might have a search that actually functions well.

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Ahh, you're right Amethyst, a group designed for announcements should be seperate from a social, chatty group.  In fact I've seen some sims that do this successfully.  And indeed, it would help for people who don't wish to hear general chatter from getting their chat bars alerted all day.

My main ideas are based around building a *real* community and traffic- as opposed to having to compete with bots, weird search optimisations and other tactics for bringing in people.  I sincerely believe that socialising is(and should be) one of the main parts of Second Life, and that the features within SL are difficult to use to encourage it.  I don't mean that it's hard as in the tools aren't there, but more than the way that many sims, groups, communities are structured in SL are restrictive, isolated and/or ESPECIALLY sales-focused.

I also think that for newcomers, the interface, navigation, features and exploration of Second Life world is so intimidating, that I wish I could figure out a solution for improving that!

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