59000 And it says peole don't see me

[Martine1988]

Hi. How much do I have to make my ava so everyone can see me?  95000 now, and it says not all people can see me. 

I know it's the hair, because I am not really a fan of Mesh hair, because I think it looks dead. ) Yes i read the forum abot that)

But 95000 should be ok, not? 

[Alwin Alcott]

ignore it

avarage load of most people is between 100.000 and 250.000

you can't satisfy everybody on sl, make your look as you want, and try to keep as low as possible, but not at all costs.

 

That still some people can't see you means they are on hardware that can't handle SL.

 

[Talligurl]

I think it knows what level the people who are in the area can see,I have had it tell me people can see me when i am around that level, other times i am around 150000 nd it tells me everyone can see me, but yes 95000 is fine.

 

[Bitsy Buccaneer]

IMO SL got it really wrong with the way they handle the notices. Cool Viewer does it via a small, unobtrusive icon in the menu bar that you can mouse over to get the info if you want. Just a better way to convey it I think. Would it be too much to hope it catches on?

So, the nagging viewer messages aside, do you really need everyone to see what you're wearing? Keep in mind that they can still see you, even if it is the silhouette, and interact with you if they want. Or is it a desire to be polite? Or just avoid the viewer messages?

My main and building alt are both low complexity (~30k most of the time) and I still run into people who have their settings lower than that. I trust that they have their reasons for it and carry on.

Depending on what I'm doing, I'll often have mine down pretty low too and adjust to suit the situation. If I want to see someone in detail, it's easily enough done.

95k is pretty average, no need to worry about that. If you socialise in busy settings though and want to be seen by more people, you might be able to find a compromise style of hair for those times. Up-dos and short styles tend to be more mesh friendly than the long flowing style you have in your forum icon. Jewellery can really eat arc too but it doesn't have to.

Just find a balance that works for you. The beauty of the jelly doll thing is that we can each find our own and still hang out.

 

[Talligurl]

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Bitsy Buccaneer wrote:

do you really need everyone to see what you're wearing?

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Well of course, after spending so much time and thought into looking fabulous you want people to be able to see it.

[Bobbie Faulds]

All that notice means is that someone near you has their threshold set below what your avi is. The default, on FS for instance, is 80K. Some players have no idea what it is and how to change it. Don't worry about it and enjoy your SL. Their loss, not yours.

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Alwin Alcott wrote:

 

avarage load of most people is between 100.000 and 250.000

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I set mine to 80,000 - and I only get 2-3 jellies in many crowds.

Most people are well below this. I find in many places I go, it isn't unless I go below 50-60,000 that a notable number vanish.

I like to keep my FPS as high as I can, so I see no reason to let people who are being an unusual burden lag me. I also keep my own outfits as low as I can, well below the limit I set most of the time - because I don't want to slow anyone else up.

 

[Martine1988]

Everybody thank you. Reading the forum a lot it sounded to me if you keep it under 100.000 you would be visible for everyone. That's why I ask. I guess I misunderstood. Thanks again ( keeps the hair :-) )

[Torrie Mint]

If we're somewhere really busy with a lot of avi's I'll never see you I set mine to 20,000 because SL says it helps. So far I've seen no improvement in jelly's or sever side baking or anything else they do. 5 steps forward and 3 steps back in a crowded sim and hope you don't go walking into space when crossing a sim border.

[Bitsy Buccaneer]

Hate to be the one to break it to the fashionista set, but some of us aren't paying much attention to your outfits regardless of what complexity setting we're using.

Except for the flying clothes and body parts scenarios. Those can be quite comical. :matte-motes-smile:

Though that brings up another matter. The easier your outfit is to rez, the more likely it is to show up to the rest of us as you intend - regardless of what complexity setting we're using. So if you just have to be seen, give SL less to get glitchy over. The complexity number is an approximation of that.

[ChinRey]

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Martine1988 wrote:

Hi. How much do I have to make my ava so everyone can see me?  95000 now, and it says not all people can see me.

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That message is completely meaningless. I've done some tests an they often go like this:

I get a message saying something like "Your avatar render cost is 29,000. You may not be rendered by everybody around you" when I'm all alone in the sim. Then I switch to another outfit and get the message "Your avatar render cost is 96,000. Everybody can see you now."

So apparently all those fictional people around me have their viewers set to render a 96,000 ARC avatar but not a 29,000. I wonder what viewer you can do that with.

 

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Martine1988 wrote:

But 95000 should be ok, not? 

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Usually yes but there's no fixed limit. Keep it as low as you can, especially when you're in crowded places.

 

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Martine1988 wrote:

I know it's the hair, because I am not really a fan of Mesh hair, because I think it looks dead. ) Yes i read the forum abot that)

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There's a huge difference in ARC between different flexihairs. Here are a few semi-random examples:

It's worth noticing that the two really long hairstyles (pics 3 and 6) both have quite low ARC, and so does the really old one I found at Yadni's Junkyard (pic 2). Also notice the ARC difference between the two very similar ones in pics 4 and 5.

The hair in the last picture has one of the highest ARCs even though it has fairly few flexiprims and I think that explains much of the difference. What that hair does have, is a lot of sculpts and it seems they can add just as much, or even more, than the flexiprims to old flexihairs.

In other words, if you prefer flexihair you can still reduce your ARC a lot by choosing the right hair.

[Pussycat Catnap]

Complexity is about how hard it is for an item to be rendered by a 3D graphics card - as a general statement not tied to any specific brand or model of card.

 

Blended transparencies, sculpts, and scripts are primary drivers of complexity.

Complex cut prims - especially when set to convex hull (which on simple prims can lower their complexity), will spike up land impact (if rezzed). I am not sure if this impacts complexity (when worn)...

Animated blended transparency is a LOT worse than simple transparency.

- So how you combine these factors will determine what result you get.

Do note that if the item is mod, you can control or fix some of this by deleting scripts and by changing a blend mode transparency to mask mode. In most hairs though, using mask mode will ruin the look.

Now the thing you want to avoid the most is a flexi with a transparency AND a script in the prim. Second to this, a sculpty with a transparency AND a script in the prim.

- Knowing all of this, you can look things over before you buy and use that to help determine.

 

[Chic Aeon]

I typically have mine set at 50 even though I have a fairly heavy computer. Most of the time I am at events and looking at products and I don't care if the people are green if the products load much faster. If i am TALKING to someone, then I just right click and render fully (may only be on Firestorm).  

 

I also am typically at 50000 or under with a Maitreya body and a Lelutka mesh head.  There are plenty of clothing hair and jewelry designers who know how to make things with good LODs and low ARCs. The trick ist to find them. I deleted a fair amount of things that made my complexity jump over 100.   

 

Everyone can easily set their complexity threshold in Firestorm. It is on the quick preferences slider. And those messages can be turned off too. Not sure about the Linden viewer. 

 

 

[Klytyna]

Rcomender plexity is based off a system of multiplyers, and it's only concerned with rendering cost, not script lag, 

 

Sculpts, flexi, prims in large numbers, alpha channel textures, even mask is higher RC than no apha, glow is another factor, as is old pre-advanced-lighting-system shine (the low med high stuff).

 

I have a pair of mesh thigh boots with a lot of detail, that came system shined,, I edited them to use specular shine and... render weight dropped from 39k a pair to just over 20k. since they are part of a set of boots gloves, waist corset and neck corset, you can imagine how much Complexity I saved by shining them up with advanced lighting.

 

But... complexity is seemingly borked, it does weird things, adding a clothing layer to a system body shouldnt make complexity drop 15k, but I've seen it happen, your complexity shouldn't alter without you adding or removing stuff, but I've seen it happen.

 

Best advice? Watch your numbers but don't panic about them, and turn off the stupid notifications about people seeing or not seeing you. Means nothing.

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Klytyna wrote:

Rcomender plexity is based off a system of multiplyers, and it's only concerned with rendering cost, not script lag,

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Yes but... if you take a scripted hair, and remove its scripts, the complexity score goes down. You can test this. I have tested it recently with jewelry I bought that had insane complexity, and then I found out it had a script in every individual prim. Removed all the scripts and it's now one of my 'medium complexity' outfits. Each item lost about 10,000 to 20,000 complexity from script removal and transparency changes - 50/50 split over the impact.

Linden Labs noted that scripts were a part of the complexity equation AND the landimpact equation. How and why, I don't know - but they are in there.

Shining an item up with advanced lighting rather than system shine actually makes sense - it's a superior engine for modern graphics, The old system shine was probably not good code and not pleasant on our systems. Advanced lighting is still 'slower to render' than system lighting as a whole - as a base - but in terms of some sub-elements of it, the advanced lighting way of doing shine is likely less taxing.

 - In terms of theorizing you can also consider that using advanced lighting specular on an item would mean there is less 'conversion work' to do to the modern way SL renders.

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Chic Aeon wrote:

I typically have mine set at 50 even though I have a fairly heavy computer. Most of the time I am at events and looking at products and I don't care if the people are green if the products load much faster. If i am TALKING to someone, then I just right click and render fully (may only be on Firestorm).  

 

I also am typically at 50000 or under with a Maitreya body and a Lelutka mesh head.  There are plenty of clothing hair and jewelry designers who know how to make things with good LODs and low ARCs. The trick ist to find them. I deleted a fair amount of things that made my complexity jump over 100.   

 

Everyone can easily set their complexity threshold in Firestorm. It is on the quick preferences slider. And those messages can be turned off too. Not sure about the Linden viewer. 

 

 

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Many of them happen to convently be major brands in mesh body clothing.

Looking for high LOD and low ARC is the dream here. That is the perfectly made stuff that renders well at a distance (high LOD), but does very little to tax the system of anyone that sees you (low ARC).

 

It is actually trivially easy to find the low arc high lod designers if you start by shopping at these major brands - demo it all - and then demo as you move into off brands.

The makers of full-perms mesh clothing for fitmesh, also tend to be high LOD low ARC - Creative Studios and Underground. So if you recognize their work - you know thoese items will be good.

And several major brands of mesh hair are also high LOD and low ARC - no.match, wasabi pills for exmaple. Others have a range; like booN and EMO - with newer stuff usually better made.

Exactly one major shoe brand has very bad ARC. It also happens to be perhaps the top brand or close to it. I guess we're not allowed to name and shame... so the hin I can provide is they have collaborated with the top fitmesh clothing maker to make socks, and to make some items matched to the clothes from that shop. I have a set of beautiful socks that by themselves use up 28,000 ARC... so I had to be very careful to make an outfit for them, and at 69,578 ARC, it's the highest ARC outfit I keep.

But all other brands have been very low ARC. EMPIRE, KC - these two make up most of my shoe collection. But they're not alone in doing good... I'm a little frustrated that EMPIRE has one shoe who's name is a South African Racial Slur...

 

Jewelry... people say Jewelry is most often the problem. I have found many low ARC jewelry brands. Some of the way in the off-brand end like FORGE (they mostly make roleplay combat gear... and Gorean equipment... but some of it looks like jewelry and comes with unscripted copies you can wear as such). .aisling is good for ARC - but their stuff is not Belleza so I have limited purchases from there to just things that I can reposition (like jewelry). MINIMAL is... minimal in ARC, but also in LOD sometimes... I found L&B at the new Linden Lab sponsored february event and they are high LOD and low ARC and really nice looking.

The other brand I found at that event I won't name because their "mesh stuff" still had sculpties in it and every single prim had an old-fashioned individual script - which is how I know that scripts STILL effect ARC...

David-Heather and +Half-Deer+ both have high LOD and low ARC. Half-Deer is not really a jewelry maker but my favorite necklace comes from there because it's a cute little calico cat pendant.

 

[Klytyna]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

Shining an item up with advanced lighting rather than system shine actually makes sense - it's a superior engine for modern graphics, The old system shine was probably not good code and not pleasant on our systems. Advanced lighting is still 'slower to render' than system lighting as a whole - as a base - but in terms of some sub-elements of it, the advanced lighting way of doing shine is likely less taxing.

 - In terms of theorizing you can also consider that using advanced lighting specular on an item would mean there is less 'conversion work' to do to the modern way SL renders.

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Truthfully... I hear a lot of people say "oh i cant use als because my pc is too old and slow" but when i inquire, most of them have better pc's then me. I've been using ALS eversince it became available for my prefered viewers, a couple of years now, with no problems.

 

Biggest problem people hav e with ALS is that dreadful "One Slider To Rule Them All" graphics setting.

Turn it up high enough to toggle ALS on and it also cranks every other setting up so you lag like a **bleep**, so "oh my pc is too slow for ALS", turn it down to reduce the lag and goodbye nice lighting.

 

Using the advanced options is so much better, and I'm dissapointed that current LL merge code basically pushes for the Advanced graphics settings being in a seperate window rather then using the now unused lower half of the preferences panels graphics tab.

 

It's as if they DELIBERATELY try to discourage people from configuring their viewers for a better SLife, and force people to comply with "see more stuff but it looks crap" doctrine that they have run with for years.

[Pussycat Catnap]

I almost always use Advanced Lighting too. But I see lots of different sliders:

In the official viewer, last I checked was something similar:

https://catnapkitty.wordpress.com/getting-started-in-second-life/#Preferences

Only a select few venues where I will turn it off - places with large laggy crowds.

[Klytyna]

That is interesting... we use almost identical settings for most things, you have higher values for LL trees max non imposter avs, and sky, i run a higher max complexity.and lower post process and a slightly lower object lod.

 

Latest release of my usual viewer, they stripped most of those settins off the main preferences panel into a second popup, and said it was for 'compatibility with LL's latest code, seemed like a dumb move to me trying to hide settings like that, the devault view on the main panel has hardly any options at all, draw distance, atmo shaders, ALS, complexity and that's about it.

 

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

I always read to set the LOD to 4 - which apparantly you also know is actually bad advice.

I play with it a little, but that 2.75 is my default. At 4, SL's optimizing code is not run - ans everything taxes your graphics card to it's full un-optimized potential... Anyone who ever plays on a 'beta or alpha' build of an upcoming video game knows what running something without optimization is like... your computer heats up, things load sowly, crashes sometimes happen, play can feel 'laggy', etc...

So I go lower than 4, you even lower than me I guess, and as a result we get to experience SL faster than many people around us do - BUT we also risk seeing objects in a less rendered state. And so one thing about lowering my LOD - it has made me a more picky shopper. I shop for things that still look good on my lower LOD setting, and yet also have low land impact or low complexity.

In other words - I have become more sensitive to watching for better optimized goods.

I'm surprised my lindend trees setting is at .5 - I used to keep it maxed as I live on mainland and there are linden trees around. Linden trees actually look better than a LOT of trees people sell... if you have that dial turned up. Especially when viewed from above looking down.

Max non-imposter I adjust all the time. Firestorm has it on a quick preferences panel so I dial it up and down when in crowds. It helps cut some lag if I cut out people in the crowd if I'm not socializing with them (like when shopping).

Sky and such are important to me for when I take screenshots - but I'm not sure if this dial even matters when it comes to windlight... I think I just left it at default.

I usually keep complexity as close to 80,000 as I can, but it's on a slider here, and I have to go into debug settings to set it numerically... so this time I was sloppy and just dialed to that 84,000 and didn't bother to slide it down a bit more...

The official viewer started crashing my Mac about a year ago so I switched to Firestorm. At this point I'm so used to the built in AO in Firestorm that I don't expect to switch back unless the allow those old Emerald devs to come back... (which is basically highly unlikely given that those guys are all banned now - the last one getting tossed when Insillico sim went away, and Firestorm is now too closely tied to Linden Lab to be willing to mess up like that again).

 

 

 

[Klytyna]

I played with sky at one time, and frankly the difference in 'quality' between min and max wasn't worth the fractional drop in framerate so, down she go!

 

As for the trees that people sell, hehe ChinRey commented to thank me on a post I made about delagging land citing somew ofthe worst culprits as "old trtees, old grass, new trees by old tree makers, new grass by old grass makers"

 

I normally have av complexity set to 240k, sometimes i'll jack it to 280k, but thats because of the kind of avi's people were where i hang out, low numbers high renderweight, so its cool

 

O,O Insilico closed? And nobody told me! Damn...