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Ciaran Laval

Avatar Physics available in beta viewer

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A new beta viewer has been released whereby we can we play with avatar physics:

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Tools-and-Technology/Introducing-the-Updated-SL-Viewer-Beta-with-Enhanced-Avatar/ba-p/803711

Quote from the blog post:

"Of course, we continue to smash bugs and make strides in viewer stability and performance, but we figured that you would be much more interested in avatars bouncing and jiggling."

Very funny guys!!!!:smileyvery-happy:

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It brings a whole new view on the expression "Does my bum look big in this?" even for male avatars! Good grief it gets jiggly in there!

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it strikes me that LL has a very schizophrenic relationship with  PG  G content guidelines that they want to portray to the public....

PS
That's not a complaint, but I'm sure some of us are wondering, if we as a society at large, and a community in microcosm, are going to fetishize and sexualize content, why aren't there dangly swinging bouncy ken doll "packages" as well?

(not that I have any desire to see that, but in the name of equality and truth in advertising....)

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I spent several hours messing around with these new physics settings and I gotta say.. until you get the settings fairly close to correct for your shape and size, it's going to look like crap. Once you do though it really adds a lot to the realism and believability. The added bonus is that the unique settings you specify for yourself are what others will see on you, unlike the TPV implementation where all other AVs rendered show the same physics, whether you want to show that to someone else or not.

On the nerdy side of it, my first impression was that these physics features would've been much better handled by using custom "physics slots" instead of predefined, hardcoded areas named breast, belly, and booty. What if I want to apply physics elsewhere and have.. say.. noodle arms or flappy thighs? What if the shading on my skin dictates that that low of an area under the breast shouldn't move? If generic bounce, cleavage, gravity, rebound, and sway settings were applied only to the corresponding white area of an uploaded image map (just like the AV alpha maps), then these features become not only more flexible, but also user-customizable. As they are now, the effect being confined to strict hardcoded areas on the mesh restricts usability to the point of making a potential powerful tool into a mere novelty. My suggestion would be 5 or 6 slots where one could upload an AV image map (that defines the area on the AV to be affected by that slots settings), and a base set of sliders to adjust the effect for each area would VASTLY improve this feature.   twocents.gif

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Dana Hickman wrote:

My suggestion would be 5 or 6 slots where one could upload an AV image map (that defines the area on the AV to be affected by that slots settings), and a base set of sliders to adjust the effect for each area would VASTLY improve this feature. 
twocents.gif


Not to mention the flexibility it would give to non-human avatars. (Forgive the pun.) Imagine a bird AV in flight with physics-determined feathers, a dragon with a naturally flexible tail, etc. Hopefully LL will expand on the capability.

 

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Dana Hickman wrote:

The added bonus is that the unique settings you specify for yourself are what others will see on you, unlike the TPV implementation where
all
other AVs rendered show the same physics, whether you want to show that to someone else or not.

 

I was wondering how this feature would look to others; if it was visible only to you or to others too. Thanks for clearing that up.

This is gonna be interesting.... :)

- Luc -

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Not an enormous amount for the guys to be exited about - in terms of own physics that is, unless you want to flabber around a beer belly.

How about adding the ability to flex the bicep and use the breast physics to adjust the pectorals on the male avatar? That would help relax the very static look that most skin creators shade into the male chest region, and that is also commonly seen in male shirts and t-shirts. 

Flexing the bicep would also make for more realistic arm movements. 

Just a suggestion :-)

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Void Singer wrote:

it strikes me that LL has a very schizophrenic relationship with
 PG 
G content guidelines that they want to portray to the public....

PS

That's not a complaint, but I'm sure some of us are wondering, if we as a society at large, and a community in microcosm, are going to fetishize and sexualize content, why aren't there dangly swinging bouncy ken doll "packages" as well?

(not that I have any desire to see that, but in the name of equality and truth in advertising....)

Once it all settles down and people get over their obsession with certain wobbly bits....which admittedly may take a while, this has potential to develop into a very useful feature, especially for machinima I'd imagine, it adds some depth to the avatar.

 

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Lots of good points and congratulations on your patience, once my arse started going ten to the dozen I decided I'd better stop and go and read the knowledgebase article, which I'd recommend everyone who wants to mess around with this does anyway:

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Enhanced-Avatar-Physics/ta-p/798525

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I've tested this feature on 2.6.3 Beta.

Even after hours of tweaking, I never came close to a smooth bounce like it's shown in the videos. Whatever I do, my boobs always seem to be on a slideshow, changing from one freeze frame stance to another every few moments. And when I'm not even moving they continue to bounce and sway this way, like they have a life of their own.

I didn't check them in the previous version, but it looks to me like the physics are seriously bugged in this beta, and not useable at all. But once they are fixed, people might see one important reason less to use a 3rd party client.

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This has got to be a joke. Its taken them like 4 months to produce some body parts that move around slightly. Why are they even bothering with this and make something like the puppeteering project they were considering a while back. Or perhaps they could do something incredibly useful like implement the server side windlight settings that are still not in the viewer, despite the server team finishing the code for it back in November.

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:) Yes it was the blank post that prompted me to ask, it's a known issue with the Lithium software but compatibility mode is the current fix, glad you figured it out.

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It's a shiny that makes people giggle and generates publicity, better things will come of it I'm sure and thanks for mentioning the pupperteering project, hopefully that can be revived at some point.

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Millennium Sands wrote:

I've tested this feature on 2.6.3 Beta.

Even after hours of tweaking, I never came close to a smooth bounce like it's shown in the videos. Whatever I do, my boobs always seem to be on a slideshow, changing from one freeze frame stance to another every few moments. And when I'm not even moving they continue to bounce and sway this way, like they have a life of their own.

I didn't check them in the previous version, but it looks to me like the physics are seriously bugged in this beta, and not useable at all. But once they are fixed, people might see one important reason less to use a 3rd party client.

 

It's actually not bugged, it's that there's a pair of contradicting sliders that seems to fool people because of their names, and that the adjustment threshold on a couple of them is very small. Here's a basic set of settings I came up with that seems to work fairly well as a place to start tweaking from:

Bounce Max: 50
Bounce Spring: 100
Bounce Gain: 20
Bounce Damping: 70

Cleavage Max: 20
Cleavage Spring: 100
Cleavage Gain: 10
Cleavage Damping: 70

*Sway Max: 70
*Sway Spring: 100
*Sway Gain: 5
*Sway Damping: 80

Advanced Mass: 4
Advanced Gravity: 40
Advanced Drag: 6

*Note - the sway setting is removed from the official viewer (what were you thinking LL?), but still remains active and working in Kirstens test viewer.

These settings are based roughly on breast size of about 70 or so, so some amount of tweaking will be necessary depending on size and preference. The effect threshold seems to be pretty good (i did over an hour of dance testing), so one might only have to adjust the MAX settings to get the desired look. In some cases a little more gravity might be desired, but be carefull with this setting as altering the balance it has with the individual GAIN and DAMPING settings can throw the whole thing out of whack. The ADVANCED MASS setting also has a huge affect and can easily throw the other settings way off.

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Ciaran Laval wrote:

It's a shiny that makes people giggle and generates publicity, better things will come of it I'm sure and thanks for mentioning the pupperteering project, hopefully that can be revived at some point.

 

I agree, which is why I hope that LL won't stop here at "marginally useful to some", and put in the next step to make it "universally useful to anyone wanting such a thing". They did a great job making the AV Alpha system "user-definable" by employing image maps that control the area to be affected. The same setup used to control the physics application IMO could literally explode this thing in terms of useability and functionality, and I think it would be stupid not to make this feature a fully functional tool that covers the whole range of potential uses that exist.

Puppeteering is also one area that hopefully they will expand on. IMO not so much for things like controlling an AV with devices like the Kinect, because that's fairly impractical in most situations. It would however, lay the ground work for real-time bone control, which then would open up a million new possibilities.

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Samuel Lindenl wrote:

Of course, we continue to smash bugs and make strides in viewer stability and performance, but we figured that you would be much more interested in avatars bouncing and jiggling.


 

Actually, I thnk most of us would prefer that LL fix problems... like group chat lag, sim lag, etc.

Once again, LL proves it's more interested in bright shiny objects, rather than the nuts and bolts of improving their system to provide their customers with a better SL experience.

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LadyDi Andel wrote:

Actually, I thnk most of us would prefer that LL fix problems... like group chat lag, sim lag, etc.

Once again, LL proves it's more interested in bright shiny objects, rather than the nuts and bolts of improving their system to provide their customers with a better SL experience.

 

except for the parts where the group chat fix is on beta grid now, and mono2 awareness has already rolled out (I can't tell you if the sqaushed the rest of the MONO rez bug that was crippling regions, but I can say it's certainly bee improved.

once the prep work is done, adding more chefs does not make the soup cook any faster... the rest of the cooks might as well work on something (I'm not so sure this was the something it shoulda been, but what do I know)

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