Complaints from Mainland Neighbours

[Loli Lusch]

Hi everyone. I have been receiving complaints from one of my neighbours on my mainland property. I have 18,496 sq meters and they are saying that there are too many people on my sim. I own a freebie place for everyone in SL. I have free clothing, stuff, super inexpensive housing rentals, games and basically a great SL community. Lots of newbies come to my sim and everyone is welcome. My main area is 2000m above land. They don't like that there are sometimes up to 14 people on my sim and say that I am causing them lag. I've removed the large script items but they still aren't happy. 

Any suggestions as to what I can do? I know that there are other sims in SL that have way more people than I do. Any responses that you know would help?

Looking for any suggestions, big or small.  Thanks!

Loli Lusch

[Chic Aeon]

I have lived on mainland (as well as private lands) for almost a decade. The mainland is FREE -- not tier wise but for most purposes rules wise. There are some rules but when you buy mainland you KNOW that your neighbors will change and it is likely that somewhere along the way you will get "a club", " a breeder" or some other enterprise that has a lot of traffic. If you don't, then you are very lucky. 

There are a few rules for mainland. 

 

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Mainland_policies    

 

If you aren't breaking those, then your neighbors can move -- that is their choice.   I would suggest asking them -- if they seem like they are threatening -- to point out what mainland rule you are breaking. I doubt they will be able too. Popularity isn't against the rules, if it were you wouldn't see huge clusters of green dots all in one place LOL.

 

 

[Alwin Alcott]

if it's mainland with only 14 people i wouldn't worry to much... mainland sims are mostly set to 40 avatars.

 

But Chic isn't totally right... mainland is free, but abuse of resources, eg preventing others to reach their land because of your visitors is AR able..

[Tommy Linden]

Hey Loli Lusch,

While I can not interpret the policies for you, I have a link in which you can review the Mainland Policies. If you want to check it out, just click here: Linden Lab Official: Mainland Policies

 

-Tommy Linden

[ChinRey]

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Loli Lusch wrote:

My main area is 2000m above land. They don't like that there are sometimes up to 14 people on my sim and say that I am causing them lag.

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I went over and had a look and happened to meet and have a quick chat with Loli there. There are lots of people tp'ing in and out and that causes lag peaks (I saw up to 104 ms frame time) but they shouldn't cause any significant problems since they are so short. The main problem with the sim seems to be physics. Even with only seven people in the sim, the physics time stays in the 12-13 ms range most of the time. Does anybody have a suggestion what can cause this?

The sim is also seriously overloaded with scripts - 6-8 ms script time and well over 90% script failure - but it's hard to see how that can contribute to lag.

[Qie Niangao]

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ChinRey wrote:

The sim is also seriously overloaded with scripts - 6-8 ms script time and well over 90% script failure - but it's hard to see how that can contribute to lag.

The main problem with the sim seems to be physics. Even with only seven people in the sim, the physics time stays in the 12-13 ms range most of the time. Does anybody have a suggestion what can cause this?

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Yeah, there are a crazy lot of scripts on this sim (not all on this parcel, by any means) and hence the scripts lag each other (only), but that's in large part because there's very little time left for scripts to run here with so very much of the frame consumed by Physics. So Physics must be the initial focus.

Lately I've encountered several Physics-lagged sims with just a few Pathfinding characters. There are four in this region at the moment, hopping around in a box at about  <97, 70, 177>  so that's a possibility, but they don't seem to be generating all that many updates. They burn about 63 microseconds "CPU" per frame, total, but I don't think that fully accounts for physics and other effects; the overall "AI Step Time" statistic for the region is 8 or 9 milliseconds, which seems a huge chunk of the frame time, yet these four forlorn little specimens are the only AI characters on the sim. They're "Snuffles" breedables (yeah, I never heard of them either) from an outfit best known for selling traffic gaming equipment.

In this region, another likely culprit is a small flock of maybe five physical Macaws that fly around a perch at about 236, 218. That's a private parcel, so only remote observation is possible, but given all the other, non-physical motion going on ("Show Updates to Objects"), it must be contributing a good share of the script lag, too.

Oh, also: Near the "$1L APARTMENTS" landmark location at 3120m altitude there's a pair of "::TWL:: Sakura Tree" objects that are pretty notorious for temp-rezzing scripted physical "Petals". They're phantom, so they don't bounce into each other or anything, but just rezzing so many scripted physical objects is kind of a big deal. I'm not sure whether these specific trees can just have that option turned off -- they're also emitting some zero-lag particle petals -- but I'd sure start here and see if it helps. (I seem to recall from another sim where these caused major lag that there was an update available, too, that might help, but for starters I'd try just removing them and see how much the Physics time improves.)

[Loli Lusch]

Thank you for the great insight and suggestions. I've removed the Sakura Trees and noticed that the "Scripts Run" improved to as high as 25%. It was around 7% before. Physics time is around 9-13ms.

At the $1L apartment rentals, each apartment has a livingroom (448kb running scripts) and a bed (668kb running scripts). Would this contribute to the lag? There are as many as 80 livingrooms and 80 beds rezzed.

[Qie Niangao]

That is quite a few apartments, so I popped in again to take a look. I do think there's some room for improvement eventually because unlike the sitting area that's scripted with AVsitter, the beds use an older pose engine, MLP, which has 16 scripts per bed here, before rezzing the scripted poseballs. Hence a script count reduction is surely possible, but that's still not going to make a huge difference to lag, and it would take a lot of work to change all those beds.

It would be great if somebody more plugged-in to Pathfinding would take a look at these statistics. There may be nothing that can be done to reduce the Physics load, especially if the owners of the Snuffles and the Macaws aren't available or willing to experiment, but it may help your "neighbor relations" if you could more definitively state what's really causing the problem.

FWIW, I really don't think it's your parcel that's the main contributor here. As ChinRey astutely observed, avatars arriving and departing add a load spike, but the main problem in this sim is still Physics, and with the Sakura trees gone, your contribution to Physics load appears pretty small.

(Incidentally and just in passing, I notice that when I search for your name in the Linden viewer or web search, it doesn't find you and complains about "something outside our TOS, or ouside your current maturity settings" - I have all maturities enabled - but it all works fine in Firestorm, so... dunno, maybe that's intentional.)

[ChinRey]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

the overall "AI Step Time" statistic for the region is 8 or 9

milli

seconds, which seems a huge chunk of the frame time, yet these four forlorn little specimens are the only AI characters on the sim.

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 I'm not sure where the AI Step Time fits in the frame time overview but I believe it's included in the Physcis Time.

In any case, 8 ms is more than half the sim's allocated computing power so there's no doubt they are by far the biggest single contributor to sim lag.

It would be sooooo sweet if they belong to one of the neighbors who complained.

[ChinRey]

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Loli Lusch wrote:

Thank you for the great insight and suggestions. I've removed the Sakura Trees and noticed that the "Scripts Run" improved to as high as 25%. It was around 7% before. Physics time is around 9-13ms.

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!!!

That must mean the tree even without the physics was trying to use 10-15 ms of frame time just for a simple particle function!!! I've heard about and seen poorly written scripts before but that must be the ultimate record.

The worst thing is, that tree is still for sale on MP and it has a five star rating.

 

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Loli Lusch wrote:

At the $1L apartment rentals, each apartment has a livingroom (448kb running scripts) and a bed (668kb running scripts). Would this contribute to the lag? There are as many as 80 livingrooms and 80 beds rezzed.

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I would assume the livingroom scripts are mono compiled while the bed ones are lso. The big difference here is that mono scripts can be instanced while lso ones can't. So 80 448 kb identical mono scripts still only use 448 kb of memory combined while 80 668 kb lso scripts use about 53 MB. But I can't imagine that is relevant at all. Once the scripts are loaded script memory only matters if it's so high the server is running out of memory to store them all and it's hard to even comperhend how that can happen these days.

Idle scripts shouldn't add any lag either. Even if they're technically running, if they're just waiting for input and not actually doing anything they're - well they're not actually doing anything.

That shows just how bad the script in that tree is btw. Particles don't need a script at all to run, only to be turned on or off or changed so unless it's rezzing those physical objects or somebody is operatign the menu, there's absolutely no reason why it should cause any measurable load at all. So apparently that script is trying to hog half the sim's allocated resources for doing nothing useful whatsoever. Is it possible to AR a creator for Excessive scripted objects or is that only for land owners?

[Loli Lusch]

I can change the beds, that isn't a problem.

When you searched "Loli Lusch" it doesn't find me? I certainly want to be found!

[ChinRey]

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Loli Lusch wrote:

When you searched "Loli Lusch" it doesn't find me? I certainly want to be found!

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I got the same message as Qie when I tried. Your place and your group show up though, it's just your personal profile that is calssified as top secret.

[Qie Niangao]

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Loli Lusch wrote:

When you searched "Loli Lusch" it doesn't find me? I certainly want to be found!

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Try the web search and see what you get: (Or maybe use an alt? I guess it would be even weirder if you weren't allowed to find yourself.) I was supposing it to be a privacy setting on the account, but I'm no expert on such things -- and I'm not sure I've seen this before, even.

For ChinRey, I do want to clarify a bit about the Sakura trees: They weren't only emitting particles -- that part was fine. Rather, they were also temp-rezzing scripted physical objects that slowly drifted down below the ground and stayed there until the temp interval expired. I assume the individual scripts inside each of those "Petals" was to make them stop falling. Anyway, the effect was pleasant, so I can see why the Marketplace ratings could be quite good. And it's always possible that the current model behaves differently or might have a different configuration, I don't know.

[beethros Karas]

Hello dear.

First of all I am sorry I didnt have time to read all the answers and maybe someone said already what I am saying here.

Mainland is as we call it a rules free land.. A mystery land.. A land with no future..

There are no rules in Mainland, except of those general TOS applies as about sexual harrasment etc etc.

In my language, Mainalnd is

,

while private Regions are:

Beverly Hills, where rules and ticky tacky exist.

If someone force you to do this and that inside YOUR property, then I consider that BULLING.

NOBODY exccept "LL" has the rights to tell you what you can do inside your parcel.

Since the Limits of Mainald are up to 40 persons, then you can have 40 persons inside your parcel.

Nobody can force you to NOT have 40 people.

If your neighbors was more popular than you and was having 40 persons at their parcel, I am sure they will be happy and TOTALLY IGNORE your letters..

So my dear fellow second lifer, please try to NOT bother your self with other peoples shelfish demands.

Just care of your self and ENJOY your secondlife. as a polite person WITHOUT making bad for others, as I am sure you do all your life already!

If your neighbors are Not happy with your "face" .. then they could simply looks Else where!!!

I could show them hundreds of expensive Private Regions, where they could have 100 people on their sim and lots of ticky tacky rules to obey on them!

 

Cheers!

A virtual life pioneer,

beethros Karas in Secondlife

 

 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

I had a neighbor threaten to tell Ebbe Linden on me last week because i was building right up to the edge of my property. 

[Callum Meriman]

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BilliJo Aldrin wrote:

I had a neighbor threaten to tell Ebbe Linden on me last week because i was building right up to the edge of my property. 

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Giggle.

Even better when they say "My dad is Ebbe Linden and he will ban you"

 

However in reality, the Lindens are flaptarded. They *DO* ban you for building on the edge of your property. Back in 2008 I had a nice 1024 on mainland, I made it a pretty *private* garden for me to sit in as I scripted. Some ugly nasty lady bougt a 512 next to me, and made it 100% shop, making her entrance to her shop right on the border line to my parcel. She was nasty, so I started building a house next to her doorway.

The Lab banned me for 3 days, for obstructing other people's ability to enter this "ladies" store.

Never mind that I had also raised the ban lines, the fact I put a prim on the border of my land was enough for the Lab to ban.

I don't trust the Lindens as far as I can spit a rat as a result. 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

So LL implied that her customers had a right to enter her store from your land? Thats retarded, but like u say, its Linden Lab.

[Qie Niangao]

That may have been during the adfarm wars, when the very scummiest of the adfarmers convinced Governance to help perpetuate their extortion scams. To be blunt, Governance folks weren't the sharpest tools in the shed, so they fell for a logically flawed requirement that every parcel had to have access through a neighbor's land (so we couldn't completely encircle and block out the ad towers).

I sometimes violated that and was repeatedly threatened by adfarmers, but I don't recall ever actually getting suspended for it myself, but I know it happened to others in the Arbor Project.

[ChinRey]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

That may have been during the adfarm wars, when the very scummiest of the adfarmers convinced Governance to help perpetuate their extortion scams. To be blunt, Governance folks weren't the sharpest tools in the shed, so they fell for a logically flawed requirement that every parcel had to have access through a neighbor's land (so we couldn't completely encircle and block out the ad towers).

I sometimes violated that and was repeatedly threatened by adfarmers, but I don't recall ever actually getting suspended for it myself, but I know it happened to others in the Arbor Project.

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No, I give up replying. I'm actually lost for words.